Cross breeding, need help.

[drache]

I have doubts that the species concept itself is valid.

it really is just a concept

[Stefan-A]

I guess a line has to drawn somewhere.

But does it, really? Under some circumstances, I can see the advantage of working with a simple snapshot of the current situation, but it's not helpful when time needs to be taken into consideration. What I mean by this, is that there's no place to draw the line between generations, in order to separate one species from the previous, or the next. The result of such an attempt is that the two species get separated based on an almost arbitrary difference. And in my opinion, a valid system wouldn't have that problem.

Approximately 98% of our DNA is present in chimps' DNA. In other words, genetically speaking, we are 98% chimp. It's the other 2% that makes us human; a separate species.

Here's the problem: Our ancestors diverged a few million years ago. Assuming that we could point at a generation and declare that that's where the two lines separated, what percentage actually set the two lines apart? It would have to be so minimal, that we couldn't even distinguish it.

Considering that subspecies are diverging, you might as well treat them as full species. Isolated populations, too. If they don't become extinct, or once again connected to the parent population, they will continue to diverge. They are already on that road and that's why I don't make a distinction between creating hybrids between species, and creating hybrids between subspecies.

So, the various human "races" we see on earth amount to nothing but a "form" of the same species as Stefan-A mentioned when speaking of grey wolves compared to modern dogs.

I'm inclined to agree, but I'd say that even the term "form" would be too strong to describe the human "races". Our most recent common ancestor was a mere 5000 years ago and we have essentially no reproductive isolation. Like a popular science magazine stated in a recent issue, there are fewer genetic differences between any two humans in the world, than between two gorillas from the same forest.

[mustang]

just out of curiosoty if we (like the grizzly/polar bear incedents) as in a sick twistede individual was to mate with a chimp would an old / new species be formed/reformed?

[Stefan-A]

just out of curiosoty if we (like the grizzly/polar bear incedents) as in a sick twistede individual was to mate with a chimp would an old / new species be formed/reformed?

The Soviets tried it, doesn't work.

Humanzee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[charles parenteau]

Buy a pair !

[ConcinusMan]

OK, so it doesn't work. My conclusion then is that there is definitely a distinction and we are indeed separate species. But it does work (crossing subspecies) for sirtalis, so...

I guess the question still remains. Are the various subs of T. sirtalis different enough from one another that they should be considered separate species or not?

Hmm... intriguing.

[Stefan-A]

I guess the question still remains. Are the various subs of T. sirtalis different enough from one another that they should be considered separate species or not?

Depends on the definition.

[mustang]

left part of my brain: ME NO LIKE BIOLOGY....TOOO MANY BIG WORDS TO MEMORIZE!!!!!!!!!!

[mustang]

right part of my brain: i passed with an 86 overall so lefty get over yourself

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Considering that subspecies are diverging, you might as well treat them as full species. Isolated populations, too. If they don't become extinct, or once again connected to the parent population, they will continue to diverge. They are already on that road and that's why I don't make a distinction between creating hybrids between species, and creating hybrids between subspecies.

I have never felt there should be a distinction for this exact reason! well said