Not new to Thams, but new here!

[ConcinusMan]

I have found a few "wandering garters" similar to this one, but prettier: http://www.nearctica.com/herps/snake...d/Telegan4.jpg. and, as far as appearances go, you could swear that they were T. marcianus. I just love that checkered pattern. However, I've never found one in Clark Co. WA. I have found them south of Portland, OR and south of Oregon City, OR. and only in certain limited areas. Keep in mind that in my area, they are generally a Willamette Valley snake and I am just north of the north end of that valley.

Also keep in mind that in my experience, ordinoides (besides being a very small snake, even fully grown) generally gives birth to very few offspring. Kind of ironic since it can be found in such huge numbers around here. Even gravid females collected from the wild, and around the size limit, give birth to 3-13 offspring usually no more. I had a pair for some years and the female was only 15 inches (and that's a big one) and she never gave birth to more than 7, but the young were pretty darn big. Also, they tend to breed spring or fall, give birth in late summer or right after emerging from winter rest. The young, although few, are bigger than the young produced by my 3 foot+ T. s. concinnus! So I'm thinking does that make it more difficult to selectively breed them? The few offspring, I mean. I wouldn't even know where to start selecting. They often gave birth to young with colors/patterns that are nothing like either parent.