Not new to Thams, but new here!

[jitami]

Welcome

[ConcinusMan]

Nice. The two normal concinnus look pretty typical of the one's found in my area (Clark Co. WA). Recently lost my female. She died after giving birth. She was around 24 years old (I had her for 21)and roughly 3 1/2 feet long. You said the two normals are females but I have to disagree. That long thin one with his tail at the top of the picture is most definitely male. I too once had a melanistic ordinoides. If one is patient, they can be found in my area. Perhaps one in a few thousand is melanistic in this area. I've even found a few that look strikingly like T. marcianus.

Great to have another T. concinnus fan with us.

[Mike Spencer]

The anary looks like my puget to some degree... wonder if there's a relationship there somewhere

The anerys are locality specific and it is quite a bit south of Puget range. I have pugets too, and there are definitely differences. In person, the anery is a mint green, as opposed to a bluish hue.

[Mike Spencer]

Nice. The two normal concinnus look pretty typical of the one's found in my area (Clark Co. WA). Recently lost my female. She died after giving birth. She was around 24 years old (I had her for 21)and roughly 3 1/2 feet long. You said the two normals are females but I have to disagree. That long thin one with his tail at the top of the picture is most definitely male. I too once had a melanistic ordinoides. If one is patient, they can be found in my area. Perhaps one in a few thousand is melanistic in this area. I've even found a few that look strikingly like T. marcianus.

Great to have another T. concinnus fan with us.

To be honest, when I first got her, I thought she too was a male. But she probed to be female that year, and she is a proven breeder, therefore making her 100% female. She is the same girl I listed in the classifieds, but I just sold her today to a friend and marked it as sold.

She is from Multnomah Co. Oregon stock while the female on the left is from a Polk Co. Oregon bloodline.

[ConcinusMan]

Female? you must be kidding me! are you serious? are we talking about the same snake? The one with the tail at the topmost part of the picture? No way! Are you sure you didn't get that one mixed up with another snake? If what you're saying is true, and that snake is confirmed to have actually given birth, I'm blown away. Forget about probing. Not accurate or even necessary with this garter, but confirmed female? Forgive me, but I don't believe it. There has to be some mistake. It couldn't be more obviously male if it if it were dragging it's testicles and hemipenes (can I say that without getting into trouble?) behind it.

The Multnomah County, Oregon origin I have no doubt about. He looks just like the male that I had for about 20 years (wild-collected in Clark Co. Wa) and he looks just like any other typical male found in Multnomah or Clark counties. I also have no doubt as to the origin of the obvious female, as her mostly orange head/face is typical of Oregon and CA individuals found farther south such as those found in Polk Co., Benton Co., Oregon, and perhaps coastal northern CA.

BTW, females (and males) of those two (clark, multnomah) counties also have a mostly black head with blue-green neck and just a faint spot of orange on the largest upper labial scales. Some of the offspring produced by my Clark Co. pair and observed wild adults, also have indistinct side stripes which are atypical and usually only found on females.

In all these years, I have never been wrong about the sex of T. ordinoides, T.s. concinnus, or T. sirtalis, based only on examining the snakes or seeing a clear photograph as long as they were close to sexual maturity. No probing needed. If that is indeed a female, I'm thrilled to be blown away. First time for everything I guess.

All that said, I'm also thrilled and blown away to see, in one place, (this forum) in such a short time, more than one person other than myself, that keeps T. s. concinnus. All these years, and I've been online since around 1994, I never stumbled across anyone else who had this subspecies of T. sirtalis. I chocked it up to the limited range of the subspecies. Honestly, I came here because I am missing my babies. I must go out next spring and get a pair of youngsters and start all over for another 20 years enjoyment. Having a great time. Thanks for sharing!

[gregmonsta]

All that said, I'm also thrilled and blown away to see, in one place, (this forum) in such a short time, more than one person other than myself, that keeps T. s. concinnus.

How can you not love that red and black contrast ... I've got a het anery male and I'm picking up a het female for him in 11 days

[ConcinusMan]

You must forgive me for being so naive. I really don't know what you mean by "het" other than heterosexual. I also had never heard of a "anery" T.s. concinnus until this thread. I know what you mean by "anery" I had just never known that there was such a thing for T.s. concinnnus. I tend to think that this "anery" is nothing more than a T. sirtalis with a pattern similar to concinnus. That's not so unusual. I've seen T. sirtalis in my area with a similar spotted pattern on the sides but habitat and habits distinguished these individuals from concinnus even though they often share the same habitat.

I have never seen an anerythristic T.s. concinnus in the wild and I've seen thousands of concinnus in the wild, over the years. Not even a melanistic or any other atypical one other than being very faint in color overall, and perhaps the oddball or two with distinct atypical latteral stripes or nearly all black with barely any orange spots, but I had chocked that up to intergrades with T. sirtalis. How are we sure that this "anery" is really concinnus? Someone enlighten me.

[gregmonsta]

You must forgive me for being so naive. I really don't know what you mean by "het" other than heterosexual. I also had never heard of a "anery" T.s. concinnus until this thread. I know what you mean by "anery" I had just never known that there was such a thing for T.s. concinnnus. I tend to think that this "anery" is nothing more than a T. sirtalis with a pattern similar to concinnus. That's not so unusual. I've seen T. sirtalis in my area with a similar spotted pattern on the sides but habitat and habits distinguished these individuals from concinnus even though they often share the same habitat.

I have never seen an anerythristic T.s. concinnus in the wild and I've seen thousands of concinnus in the wild, over the years. Not even a melanistic or any other atypical one other than being very faint in color overall, and perhaps the oddball or two with distinct atypical latteral stripes or nearly all black with barely any orange spots, but I had chocked that up to intergrades with T. sirtalis. How are we sure that this "anery" is really concinnus? Someone enlighten me.

Maybe it's because the phenotype appears to be concinnus and because the prevalent DNA genotype on the west coast is concinnus (http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/brod...0ME%202002.pdf)
I don't think it can be debated that this is an anery concinnus - http://www.schlangenauge.ch/concinus.pdf ...
One of our European members has one (father of my concinnus)


Definately concinnus ... definately anery

[Stefan-A]

Definately concinnus ... definately anery

Hypo-, maybe. But not an-. Or did you mean the one in the necropsy?

[drache]

welcome to the forum, Mike
I've got some concinnus also
mine just are the regular beautiful black and red with yellow dorsal stripe and blue underside kinds