Female? you must be kidding me! are you serious? are we talking about the same snake? The one with the tail at the topmost part of the picture? No way! Are you sure you didn't get that one mixed up with another snake? If what you're saying is true, and that snake is confirmed to have actually given birth, I'm blown away. Forget about probing. Not accurate or even necessary with this garter, but confirmed female? Forgive me, but I don't believe it. There has to be some mistake. It couldn't be more obviously male if it if it were dragging it's testicles and hemipenes (can I say that without getting into trouble?) behind it.

The Multnomah County, Oregon origin I have no doubt about. He looks just like the male that I had for about 20 years (wild-collected in Clark Co. Wa) and he looks just like any other typical male found in Multnomah or Clark counties. I also have no doubt as to the origin of the obvious female, as her mostly orange head/face is typical of Oregon and CA individuals found farther south such as those found in Polk Co., Benton Co., Oregon, and perhaps coastal northern CA.

BTW, females (and males) of those two (clark, multnomah) counties also have a mostly black head with blue-green neck and just a faint spot of orange on the largest upper labial scales. Some of the offspring produced by my Clark Co. pair and observed wild adults, also have indistinct side stripes which are atypical and usually only found on females.

In all these years, I have never been wrong about the sex of T. ordinoides, T.s. concinnus, or T. sirtalis, based only on examining the snakes or seeing a clear photograph as long as they were close to sexual maturity. No probing needed. If that is indeed a female, I'm thrilled to be blown away. First time for everything I guess.

All that said, I'm also thrilled and blown away to see, in one place, (this forum) in such a short time, more than one person other than myself, that keeps T. s. concinnus. All these years, and I've been online since around 1994, I never stumbled across anyone else who had this subspecies of T. sirtalis. I chocked it up to the limited range of the subspecies. Honestly, I came here because I am missing my babies. I must go out next spring and get a pair of youngsters and start all over for another 20 years enjoyment. Having a great time. Thanks for sharing!