Why F/T mice(food)

[ConcinusMan]

I never got so much into the scientific categorizing of snakes but if I'm not mistaken, you have just told me that science confirms my statement of their relationships. Thanks Stefan. Everyone likes to feel like they are "right" sometimes.

At the same time, you're saying that Pituophis (gopher, bull, pine snakes) are closely related to King and milk snakes? (Lampropeltis)

Fascinating. I really didn't know that, even though I have kept members of both groups. What blows me away is that wild-caught adult CA king snakes I have kept (striped and ringed phases) were much better adapted and better tempered than any captive bred pet store individuals I have kept or encountered. I never understood why. Still don't.

[Stefan-A]

At the same time, you're saying that Pituophis (gopher, bull, pine snakes) are closely related to King and milk snakes? (Lampropeltis)

These two, Pantherophis, Arizona and a couple of others are very closely related. I have an article somewhere, where it was suggested that perhaps they all should even belong to the same genus.

[ConcinusMan]

I dunno about that. I think we need give the whole system a gradual transformation based on genetic reality instead of relying on physical similarities. It's pretty obvious that most species of Garter snakes are going to be very closely related genetically, but I do believe that some other (older) species that have been traditionally considered closely related may turn out to be fairly far from closely related. We need rely more on genetic relationships because that is where the reality of relationship lies. this will take many years, perhaps decades, of course, to sort out. Who knows, it might turn out that some species of Pituophis may be closer related genetically to some species of Lampropeltis and visa/versa. Just for example.

[Stefan-A]

This particular suggestion was based specifically on genetics, not external similarities.

[ConcinusMan]

Well good. That's how it should be.

[guidofatherof5]

Great news.
She started eating tonight(2 full size f/t mice). The guy I got her from said she's been off food for 3 weeks. I couldn't be happier. This is a big step to her continued recovery.

In addition to her I also recieved a male Eastern Fox Snake. He's a beauty. He ate 3 f/t mice tonight. They have really settled in fast.
This has been a good night.

[Charis]

That's really good to hear! I needed that too! Tikki refused food today, but all my snakes have been a bit upset, they are working on the road in front of our house & the whole house vibrated ALL day long. Have to see if I can get her to eat tonight after a few hours of peace.

[Brewster320]

How you concluded that it even comes close to a milk snake, I don't know. There are obvious differences. milk snakes are more like King snakes than bull, pine, fox, or gopher snakes. Most milk snakes I have encountered in the wild were under 2 feet long, brilliantly colored, secretive, and not very aggessive.

Eastern Milk snakes look very different from other milks, they look more live a corn snake or a great plains rat snake actually. There body and head shape though is what gives it away.

I can't believe it, that poor fox snake! Hav you seen those pictures out the bal python that was mauled by a rat? That picture and this one really give you an idea why we don't feed live adult rodents.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh yeah, It's terrible. Bad husbandry too. I had a gopher snake I collected from the wild in San Diego county that I occasionally fed live mice. Very small mice. She had no trouble making a quick strike and immediately constricting a small mouse to death but she was nearly 5 feet long and I always kept watch until the mouse was dead. Usually in the summer I fed her baby birds taken from European House Sparrow or starling nests.