New Garter owner!

[mustang]

WELCOME hey id love to c some pics of ur garter!

[Melmo]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I assumed the snake opening its mouth was just helping push down the fish more, just wasn't too sure. In the stores near me, there are guppies, but only Fancy Guppies, but they're just to expensive to keep buying though. I'll try scenting pinkies, because I know they help faster growth anyway.

[ConcinusMan]

Why no goldfish? I have always fed my T. s. concinnus goldfish for over 2 decades now. Of course I also feed them night crawlers and an occasional Pacific treefrog. They also love salmon or any fish really. Saltwater fish should be avoided but when used I always cook it first.

[ConcinusMan]

Sorry for the double post, but...

@ mustang : why do you want a coachwhip? (red phase, otherwise known as a red-racer). They are nasty boogers, remain aggressive and poorly adapt to captivity. I've seen them in Oregon and believe me, you don't want one. Dang thing outran me at full sprint in the open. I've only seen zoos keep them successfully in the long term.

@ melmo : Fast growth is not necessarily a good thing. It can lead to health problems and short life span. I am a firm believer in inducing a winter rest for any snake that does this normally in the wild, and not promoting rapid growth. It's bad for the snake. Also, I would never force or encourage my snakes to eat something they wouldn't normally eat in their natural habitat. mammals are NOT on the menu for garter snakes in the wild, generally speaking, and there's no good reason to do this.

[Stefan-A]

mammals are NOT on the menu for garter snakes in the wild, generally speaking, and there's no good reason to do this.

That would be incorrect, they are in fact on the menu for several species of garter snake in the wild, most notably T. sirtalis and T. elegans.

[ConcinusMan]

That's kinda why I said "generally speaking". I was saying that most garter snakes don't eat rodents.

There's plenty of T. sirtalis in my area but one would rather starve to death than to eat a rodent around here. They just won't do it unless coerced, scenting, or whatever you have to do, to get them to eat it. There's plenty of amphibians for a large T. sirtalis to eat around here and that's what they prefer. At the same time, I'm sure that there are certain areas of the continent and certain populations that do eat rodents, probably pinkies or fuzzies, but I think it's not near as common as those that do not eat rodents.

There are several species of garters in my area. The most common is T. ordinoides (Northwestern Garter snake). If you encounter one, there's usually thousands, perhaps more, in one small area. They absolutely will not even consider rodents. For one thing, the species is just too small, and they stick with worms and slugs mostly.

We also have T. elegans. Again, you will never get one collected from this area to eat rodents voluntarily. They love fish, frogs, and worms however.

The only T. sirtalis I have personally encountered in my area is T. s. concinnus, which is quite limited in range and has specific habitat requirements. It can only be found in undisturbed wetland habitat. They are our largest garter around here, but again, any individuals collected from the wild in this area will not touch rodents. There's way to much fish, frogs, worms, etc. to be found as food. I've seen member sirtalis01 I believe, who has captive bred concinnus and states that they are fed rodents. His appear to be very similar to Benton county, oregon wild snakes. Again, in the wild, even that location, they do not eat rodents. I don't know what else to say.

[Stefan-A]

That's kinda why I said "generally speaking". I was saying that most garter snakes don't eat rodents.

I'm not convinced that even most would refuse. The specialists, like ordinoides, are far more likely to ignore rodents, but they are ultimately relatively few.

There's plenty of T. sirtalis in my area but one would rather starve to death than to eat a rodent around here. They just won't do it unless coerced, scenting, or whatever you have to do, to get them to eat it.

Their behavior in captivity when confronted with non-native species, is not a very good indicator. It's also not unheard of for snakes to refuse to take domestic mice, but readily accept local species of rodents. Point is, refusal to behave a certain way in captivity, does not imply that the behavior is unnatural for the animal. The opposite is also true. For example, I have never had to scent a mouse or otherwise coerce a snake to get it to accept mice. In fact, nearly all my garters have displayed far more aggressive feeding behavior when offered mice, than any of the dozen or so species of fish I've offered. I still would not consider their behavior typical of their species based on their behavior while in my care.

I would also like to point out, that the location is known to be a far better predictor of diet, than the species of snake. Many of them are generalists and opportunists, after all.

[guidofatherof5]

In my area T.radix is everywhere and nightcrawlers are the main food source. I have had w/c radixes take unscented pinkies moments after being caught. I can't imagine a radix coming across a nest of baby mice and passing that food opportunity up. I think the same can be said for the other less abundant food sources(frogs, salamanders,etc) I think they are very opportunistic.

[ConcinusMan]

Well maybe that's just it. Could just be that the snakes around here have such an abundant supply of non-rodent food, that they just don't bother. I have tried to offer baby wild mice to my concinnus on several occasions. They were completely uninterested. However, if they smell fish, even from across the room, they go nuts. These snakes were captured in an area which is flooded most of the year.

[guidofatherof5]

Well maybe that's just it. Could just be that the snakes around here have such an abundant supply of non-rodent food, that they just don't bother. I have tried to offer baby wild mice to my concinnus on several occasions. They were completely uninterested. However, if they smell fish, even from across the room, they go nuts. These snakes were captured in an area which is flooded most of the year.

I know what you mean. In my colony of radixes the heads pop up out of the hides when they smell whatever is on the menu. If it's mice, lookout. They bum-rush me and grab the container of food. I have to do a finger count when I'm done. My radixes go crazy for mice. They are agressive with other foods but mice seem to get them all worked up and for many out of control.