Brightening Color?

[GarterGeek]

I should have made a point about the "absorbing UV" thing earlier, but didn't catch it. When a snake is basking, what it's trying to absorb is not UV light but infrared light - heat waves! Like... moving closer to the campfire as the night gets chilly. UV rays are just as harmful to snake skin as to our skin - it's high-energy radiation that can get into cells and mess with DNA. Mess up the wrong bit of DNA and the cell goes crazy and becomes cancerous. It's true that dark pigments absorb more heat, and I honestly don't know if dark snakes are more efficient baskers than light ones. But really we have melanin as protection against UV radiation - because of its chemical structure it can absorb the high-energy ray and kind of dissipate it in a safe way. (The darkest-skinned people are from the places with the strongest sunlight, not the coldest temperatures!)

If the snake just wants heat, why do pet-stores sell both UV light bulbs and heat bulbs? Why would we need the UV bulbs for our snakes if we could just use the plain heat bulbs or even a heating pad?

I'm probably just misunderstanding something again...

[Stefan-A]

If the snake just wants heat, why do pet-stores sell both UV light bulbs and heat bulbs? Why would we need the UV bulbs for our snakes if we could just use the plain heat bulbs or even a heating pad?

I'm probably just misunderstanding something again...

Lizards need them.

[DrKate]

If the snake just wants heat, why do pet-stores sell both UV light bulbs and heat bulbs?

Like Stefan said, it's (most? all?) lizards that require UV light. This is a whole 'nother can of worms, but it's an interesting one too. Those same high-energy rays that mess with DNA, if they happen to hit an inactive vitamin D molecule instead, provide a burst of energy to convert it into the active form. Lizards can't get enough active vitamin D in their diet, but they can make the inactive form and then sit in the sun to activate it. Pretty neat, really. Here's a good (and short) pop-science article about it: Lizards Sunbathe for Vitamin D: Discovery News

Snakes get all the active vitamin D they need from their (balanced, varied, nutritionally adequate) diet, so they don't require UV light to do the conversion.

Incidentally, people get a lot of their active vitamin D by UV conversion and not directly from the diet. There is some concern among physicians that really slathering on the sunscreen every single day, as advocated by anti-cancer groups, would lead to vitamin D deficiency in humans: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/health/17real.html (The fact that almost nobody actually puts on enough sunscreen every single day to block all UV exposure makes the risk pretty minimal.)

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

My guess would also be food...

I am not well-versed in the effects of UV lighting, though it is my understanding that most snakes don't require the UVB, just the heat from a UVA, or a heat pad and a UVA for daytime simulation (and if on a timer, seasonal change). I am not sure about strictly diurnal species, a category wherein garters are often placed (I have seen night feeding in Oregon Garters.).

My studies of the 4 species in my area do raise the question about the effects of prey items. I often rant about the possibility of hybridization or partial hybridization in my area, because of the many color/pattern variants found here. I can not however assume that all of this is a result of inheritance. Where do the blues found in T. s. tetrataenia, pickeringii, some infernalis, and occasional T. e. elegans and terrestris come from? Why are T. ordinoides and T. e. terrestris often randomnly flecked dorsally and ventrally with red, while others are not? Food for thought: We are what we eat, right?

Many toxic frogs are brightly colored because of the toxic beetles they eat! Many sirtalis and perhaps other species have been documented as developing an immunity to newt toxins; could there be a gradual color change as a result of eating newts? Aposematic? Or perhaps, colors might be associated with various "recipes" of diets. Maybe one subpopulation of fitchi specializes in newts and salamanders, while another just eats chorus frogs and ranids. Chances are, many of the garter species will diversify in their choice of prey (because ya never know when you'll eat next!), but perhaps some, if the local pond for instance is saturated with one particular prey species, may specialize and favor just the one species.

There have been a few posts about skin color in people... It goes beyond lighting! Inuits near the Arctic Circle have a whole body constitution that screams "I eat blubber!" and "I have a body type better adapted to my cold environment probably because of it!" Perhaps a tangent... Fascinating, but should we really be comparing genetics between garters and people? The mechanisms, how mutations are revealed, etc. may be totally different.

For now, I guess it is still a mystery. My baby W/C fitchi comes from an area of fitchis with yellowish-white dorsal stripes, and the only prey it has taken so far is slender salamanders and small chorus frogs. Its stripe currently has an ultra light hint of blue in it. Am I tripping? I'll keep you informed after a few more sheds. The locality from which it was caught also has NW Salamanders, ensatinas, newts, red-legs, alligator and fence lizards, and various small rodents.

Could be food, could be light, could be inherited quircks (recessive, co-dominant, or polygenic?), could be captive cleanliness... So much to learn! Do you all keep notes on this stuff? I do.

Steven

[DrKate]

Fascinating, but should we really be comparing genetics between garters and people? The mechanisms, how mutations are revealed, etc. may be totally different.

Mendel worked with peas...

(Sure, there are probably big differences in gene expression between snakes and humans. I was just using a more familiar "model organism" as an example of why I doubt that parent snakes can control the color of their offspring in a single generation.)

[drache]

maybe later I'll find the article, or someone more persistent can . . .
it was about a increased brightening of red pigmentation in garters that have evolved to tolerate the toxins of some lizard or maybe newt, somewhere in the northern US - sorry forgot all the details
so there's another nutritional factor

[mtolypetsupply]

What a fabulous thread. Nice to spy on so many smart people building on the discussion!

[Brewster320]

I know this doesn't quite have to do with point of this thread but I've heard that if you feed color enchancing fish food to your turtle or feed color enchancing fish food to feeder insects and then feed it to your leopard gecko they will get brighter colors. I don't know if it really works as I've never tried it myself but I wonder if you feed it to what ever you feed your garter snake(fish, tadpoles, mice, worms) if your garter will gain more color.

[guidofatherof5]

I know this doesn't quite have to do with point of this thread but I've heard that if you feed color enchancing fish food to your turtle or feed color enchancing fish food to feeder insects and then feed it to your leopard gecko they will get brighter colors. I don't know if it really works as I've never tried it myself but I wonder if you feed it to what ever you feed your garter snake(fish, tadpoles, mice, worms) if your garter will gain more color.

Why add color?
I'm only speaking of my radixes but I've already got such a variety of natural color and I think natural is the key word. One of the great things about garters are the great variety of colors that occur without enhancements. I'm not sure I would want the added chemicals(as benign as they appear) in my snakes. Not having that is one less worry.
I understand your question and by no means am I making light of it. I just don't see the purpose if it has to be added to obtain.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

maybe later I'll find the article, or someone more persistent can . . .
it was about a increased brightening of red pigmentation in garters that have evolved to tolerate the toxins of some lizard or maybe newt, somewhere in the northern US - sorry forgot all the details
so there's another nutritional factor

I would be very interested in that article