Mice make garters bigger then on worms?

[guidofatherof5]

T.s.parietalis(red-sided) gets large. I've got one at 36 inches. She's a great snake.

[Philminator]

wow that would be something to see. I hear the florida blue gets 4 ft then there is that thamnophis gigas I heard of but never seen other then a few pics doing google search

[ssssnakeluvr]

worms don't have much in them...mostly water, however ordinoides specialize in eating them. mice won't necessarily make them bigger, but provide more nourishment in a smaller package...they grow faster on mice. a lot of the species will grow over 2 feet, mainly the females. radix, wanderings, easterns, red sided, valleys.... i have a melanistic eastern that's about 43" and a florida blue around 36"

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am going to post my reply to your pm in here for everyone! saves me some typing

I would say that while a garter fed mice might grow faster depending on how often you feed it, it probably won't grow larger than one that is well fed with worms/fish, I just caught a 3 foot eastern 2 weeks ago by a lake where she's probably never eaten a mouse in her life! There are so many darned frogs and tadpoles and minnows there.... I have had young garters grow at lightning speed eating fish fillets. It also depends on their genetics, some garters are just genetically built to grow bigger than others. My hypo eastern I have had for 2 years now, and she just doesn't seem like she is going to grow into a monster, and I noticed all of the garters from that area tend to be smaller, while the easterns by brady's lake are all enormous and put any male northern water snake to shame. A snake never will truly max out, reptiles never stop growing, they just slow down as the get bigger and older. Multiple mice every week would probably make an adult garter fat and shorten it's life span. I personally don't agree with an all rodent diet for garters just because it's not what they naturally would eat, I prefer to do rodents one meal, fish the next, and every so often throw in some worms. BUT I am not against those who choose to feed that way in any way. It's just my personal choice to vary the diet.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

also I would like to add that worms may be made up of 80% water... but so are people!!! and, I would imagine, pinkies too!!!! I think worms are very nutritional for garters, especially well fed worms. Worms seek out soil and decaying plant matter that is RICH in nutrients. So their stomach contents are full of vitamins and minerals and lots of good stuff, it's not just all dirt!

[DavidD]

I start my babies on worm peices then slamon then pinkies, night crawlers and salmon. My adults get the most varied diet possible.
Mice
Rats
Quail
Lizards
Toads
Frogs
Worms
Salamanders
Anything WC is frozen for 2 weeks prior to feeding

[FunkyRes]

I have found a California Red-sided that was over 4 feet in length.
Most abundant prey was American Bullfrog.

Common garters (T sirtalis) at least on the west coast seem to largely be associated with streams and ponds where there are plenty of Rana to feed upon.

They also take rodents in the wild, but rodents undoubtedly make up a smaller portion of their diet.

If you have a lot of garters, varying the diet may be difficult, but if you only have a few I think it may be better for the snake to receive a variety of prey items similar to what they naturally feed upon.

I have no idea how much calcium worms have, but I wonder if garters fed upon mice grow faster / larger than worm fed because of the calcium in rodents. That could be why T sirtalis that feed largely upon Rana species naturally grow larger than species that are more prone to feed upon slugs and worms in the wild.

Large snakes are always neat, but I don't personally see a need to see how big I can get them to grow.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

If you have a lot of garters, varying the diet may be difficult, but if you only have a few I think it may be better for the snake to receive a variety of prey items similar to what they naturally feed upon.

to add some input, I personally find varying the diet of my large collection easy. I manage it by simply thawing out a large portion of whatever's on the menu, and if it's fish, chop it up and feed everyone the same thing on one day, then the next feeding, something else. I make scenting cups in case some of the snakes don't like what I am feeding so that I can still convince them to eat it!!! that has worked out pretty well for me!

[Brewster320]

I've never in my life seen a garter over 26" which is what I have of the 100's of garters I've seen they are either newborn babies lol or 20-24" I think it would be totally amazing owning a garter snake that is 36-48" what species are more likely to get that size?

In NH I caught a Eastern that was 4+. It was a monster, girth wise it dwarfed most corn snakes. It also was an awesome shade of blue.

[mtolypetsupply]

According to beautifuldragons.com, earthworms are 10% protein, 2%fat and 84% water. They do not list any info for pinkies other than "very high in fat". No fish is listed.

Aswith other opportunistic feeders, varied diet seems best.