Was a bit worried about a new arrival.

[pitbulllady]

Oh that explains it. Amphibians dont handle agricultural runoff very well. Not much standing water and any that is there is full of pesticides and other agrochemicals that can do things like sex-reverse the frogs, screw up reproductive pathways etc. Frogs would be better off in an urban area than an agricultural region...

A friend and I caught three more Fasciata last night along I 75. Only one of them so much as musked when my friend grabbed him (and he got bit twice). The others are already holdable...

The one I got the other day (the rescue) will curl up on my lap for an hour while I watch Babylon 5...

Mine love to curl up on my lap while I watch tv, too, without being restrained. My hypo girl has sat through entire NASCAR races, including the cautions and double-file re-starts. Even Boas aren't that laid-back. Her babies are taking frozen-thawed pinkies and salmon strips right from my fingers. These are just the perfect pet snakes, and with the various color mutations popping up, I have a hunch that Nerodia are going to be the "Next Big Thing" in captive-bred snakes.

I'd suspected that agriculture was responsible for the scarcity of frogs around here. The only frogs I've even heard, which were Green Tree Frogs, were in town. Farmers drain off any places with standing water out in the country, and those agricultural pesticides have done the rest. I used to see toads all over the place when I was a kid living out here, but then, there was standing water in the "bottom lands" where they could breed, that has all since been drained, plus we've had several really bad drought years in a row. Our rainfall yearly totals have only just now, this year, gotten back on track, but that's only just for some areas. Parts of the state are still in drought conditions.

[GradStudentLeper]

Mine love to curl up on my lap while I watch tv, too, without being restrained. My hypo girl has sat through entire NASCAR races, including the cautions and double-file re-starts. Even Boas aren't that laid-back. Her babies are taking frozen-thawed pinkies and salmon strips right from my fingers. These are just the perfect pet snakes, and with the various color mutations popping up, I have a hunch that Nerodia are going to be the "Next Big Thing" in captive-bred snakes.

On the one hand, that would be good for wild populations. On the other hand, you know my loathing of rack systems... I dont like living things being treated as "products", essentially living objects mass produced like dogs in a puppy mill, which exactly how a lot of snakes in the hobby are probably bred (apply capitalism to a living thing and mass production is what you get given sufficient time). I am a tad leary of the genetics involved in the selective breeding of morphs... Breeders can be pretty shady, and a lot of lines are inbred and have no heterozygosity that is worth mentioning. I dont want to see that happening to my favorite taxa. Plus, the demand for the snakes in general with spur on commercial collection Right now they are caught by individuals for their own collections, and by universities... With heavy pet demand they will be collected commercially.

[FunkyRes]

Nerodia will not be the next big thing.
They are already illegal in CA and it would not surprise me if they became illegal elsewhere where they are not native.

Like Bullfrogs, they are an invasive threat where they are not native - an invasive threat that can do considerable damage to local fish, amphibian, and reptile fauna.

[GradStudentLeper]

Nerodia will not be the next big thing.
They are already illegal in CA and it would not surprise me if they became illegal elsewhere where they are not native.

Like Bullfrogs, they are an invasive threat where they are not native - an invasive threat that can do considerable damage to local fish, amphibian, and reptile fauna.

The same can be said for domestic cats...

[pitbulllady]

Nerodia will not be the next big thing.
They are already illegal in CA and it would not surprise me if they became illegal elsewhere where they are not native.

Like Bullfrogs, they are an invasive threat where they are not native - an invasive threat that can do considerable damage to local fish, amphibian, and reptile fauna.

Just about EVERYTHING is illegal in California, including ferrets, hamsters, gerbils and many other species that are a staple of the pet trade. Why would it make any sense to ban Nerodia while allowing sales of really exotic snakes and lizards from other parts of the world? Are Corn Snakes and Rat Snakes permitted as pets? Are THEY native to California? Not the last time I checked, they weren't. I'm not advocating that, since you know that my belief is that the most dangerous words in a democratic society are "there ought to be a law". It's scary to me, living on the opposite side of the continent, that anyone would look to California as an example of animal-related laws. The HSUS and PETA are pretty much in control of the law makers there when it comes to animal-related law. I'm honestly surprised that cats and dogs are legal, but then, there have been two attempts to force mandatory spay/neuter of all cats and dogs over the age of four months, statewide, ignoring the huge upsurge in shelter uptake and abandonments wherever these laws have been passed locally, so the effort is at least underway to prevent the breeding and selling of those animals within the state of CA, for their own good, of course. Now, to be fair, there are a lot of states back east where it's illegal to own NATIVE snakes, including Georgia. You can't have a Water Snake there, or a Corn, or a Chain King, or an Eastern Garter or Ribbon, not even a captive-bred morph. And, pretty much every legislative term, my home state of SC has to do battle with all-around "exotic"-banning bills backed by several AR groups. It's like an insidious cancer, really.

[FunkyRes]

The same can be said for domestic cats...

Except they are cute a furry.

[FunkyRes]

Just about EVERYTHING is illegal in California, including ferrets, hamsters, gerbils and many other species that are a staple of the pet trade.

Hamsters are legal here.

Why would it make any sense to ban Nerodia while allowing sales of really exotic snakes and lizards from other parts of the world? Are Corn Snakes and Rat Snakes permitted as pets? Are THEY native to California? Not the last time I checked, they weren't.

African clawed frogs were banned after they became established.
American Bullfrogs are still legal
Nerodia were banned after they became established (several localities) - corn snakes are a far more common pet yet they are not established, so something about our ecosystem probably interferes with establishment of corn snakes in the wild.

Nerodia OTOH have not only become established, but have become established in the California Valley dangerously close to Giant Garter Snake populations.

One of the factors with Nerodia is that they do not make great pets. Despite experiences relayed here, they can be extremely nasty and they really stink. So they frequently are released. Now they are breeding in several locales.

I'm not advocating that, since you know that my belief is that the most dangerous words in a democratic society are "there ought to be a law". It's scary to me, living on the opposite side of the continent, that anyone would look to California as an example of animal-related laws.

Our laws are better than, say, Georgia - but yes, we do have some restrictive laws. Ferrets are illegal because of fear that they will become established and damage farmland. Gerbils are illegal I believe because they fear they will become established in the desert and harm some desert species. Nerodia have the same issue, and the fact that there are several established Nerodia populations warrants their banning in the pet trade.

We (keepers) screwed up. We did not discourage newbies from keeping them, and now they pose a threat to an already seriously threatened native Garter Snake.

[Stefan-A]

Ferrets are illegal because of fear that they will become established and damage farmland.

Well that's two dots I'm having a bit of trouble connecting. Farmland?

[FunkyRes]

Well that's two dots I'm having a bit of trouble connecting. Farmland?

Yes - California has quite a bit of farmland. The entire Sacramento River Valley and San Joaquin River Valley are largely farmland. Our specialties are fruits, nuts, and rice - but we grow lots of other stuff too, quite a bit of corn for example. We also have a lot of livestock - including chickens, and I believe it is chicken that have the biggest issue with ferrets.

[Stefan-A]

Yes - California has quite a bit of farmland. The entire Sacramento River Valley and San Joaquin River Valley are largely farmland. Our specialties are fruits, nuts, and rice - but we grow lots of other stuff too, quite a bit of corn for example. We also have a lot of livestock - including chickens, and I believe it is chicken that have the biggest issue with ferrets.

Well, it would have to be the chickens, since ferrets are obligate carnivores. "Strange" that nobody's worried about what the livestock might cause.