The first one looks like a T.s.sirtalis but the second one does not...that's why I asked. I've never seen an eastern with a dorsal stripe like that second one. I remember that radixes have those pretty orange dorsal stripes and they often look very similar to my easterns...so I was thinking maybe it was a radix...but Steve says they aren't in that area. Texas garters huh? Are those the T.eques megalops? Looks like those. I saw a pic of the annectens...saw the orange dorsal stripe...they do look like it could be those too. I just thought it was interesting that they said sirtalis sirtalis...people are always misidentifying easterns. Not sure how you can put up one pic of an eastern and then put up another pic of a snake that doesn't look anything like it and say that it is also an eastern (I'm speaking of sirtalis sirtalis subspecies not sirtalis when I refer to an eastern).