A little detective work and youll find many Thamnophis keepers/breeders are full of valuable information about locals and lineages. In recent years that kind of information has become scarce because of many reasons, laws, giving up a good spot, politics etc. its almost gotten to the point were you gotta watch what ya say and be carefull who ya deal with, laws vary from state to state, county to county. I cant sell a Plains Garter to anyone in Ohio no matter how much proof i have that its not from that state, the laws have changed a lot of things.