Let's vent:What really ticks you off about the pet trade!

[GartersRock]

Seventh, since this is a garter snake forum I am assuming you have an interest in garter snakes. Well, another news flash, there are not that many of us. Most people do not have the patience to deal with a garter snake. Most are rather flighty, they have a tendency to musk, and babies can be a real pain in the...to feed. Why buy something like that when there are so many other choices out there. Besides if they wanted a garter snake chances are they could catch their own.

Cool thread!!
I agree with this in general but I disagree with a few of the statements...
This is how the general public views garters, yeah. But I had to say that:

1. Most of my garters are not flighty and many where even wild caught adults. Certainly no more flighty then your average king, corn or milk!

2. NONE of my garters musk. I have dozens...

3. Baby kings, corns, milks and balls can be even more of a pain in the **** to feed. If not sometimes moreso then garters...

4. Try finding the right garter, at the right time, right when you want it.
And then try and find the species you want that isn't local.
And then try finding some morphs. Honestly. You can find kings, corns and milks in the wild too! Most people who are looking for a pet aren't going to know where to look when they want one.
And if you want a puget, flame or whatever well... Good luck!

But yeah. That would be how the general public would see it. So I completely understand where you are coming from. But you failed to mention that these are just "myths".

Anyways! Back on topic!

[infernalis]

Bill you say "Pet trade" so I will go to the very core of why I "dislike" large corporate pet trade.

Green Iguanas - The number of people who think they only get so big and live less than a year greatly exceeds the number of people who have even ever seen a healthy adult.

Large stores like Petco will import massive quantities of gathered iguanas, from the initial raping of nature to the pet store, as high as 90 percent have been known to perish before being sold. Of the remaining 10 percent, another 90 perish in the hands of incompetent owners. (sad numbers, very sad)

Monitor Lizards - see above, make it worse, there is the monitor trade... Sickening.

Unknown, unusual species - every day another unknown species gets offered on KS classifieds. MANY perish due to lack of understanding of the species. Why must 99 percent of the imported snakes die just because they are pretty?

Green

Personally, I would have a difficult time running a pet store, I'd have to screen everyone to sell them an animal

[sschind]

I getting ready to leave for a show so I don't have time to make any long comments. I will say this, yes, it does feel good to vent. Glad to meet you Bill and I will check out "this island earth" for some of my gecko wants

I'll write more later when I have time. Glad I haven't offended anyone. It does seem that we can all get along.

Oh yeah, anyone Racine Wisconsin area (between Chicago and Milwaukee closer to Milwaukee) today check out sewerfest at the south hills country club on frontage road off I94. Probably not many garters there (they are flighty, hard to feed and they musk all the time but there will be a nice selection of CBB only animals. Definately the best show in Wisconsin. Its no Tinley Park but then again vendor tables are only $30.00 and admission is only $5.00 so what do you expect.

Stop by at the Tropical Oasis table and say Hi. Ask for Steve

[adamanteus]

Good luck at the show, Steve. Hope it's a good day.

[Bill]

Bill you say "Pet trade" so I will go to the very core of why I "dislike" large corporate pet trade.

Green Iguanas - The number of people who think they only get so big and live less than a year greatly exceeds the number of people who have even ever seen a healthy adult.

Large stores like Petco will import massive quantities of gathered iguanas, from the initial raping of nature to the pet store, as high as 90 percent have been known to perish before being sold. Of the remaining 10 percent, another 90 perish in the hands of incompetent owners. (sad numbers, very sad)

Monitor Lizards - see above, make it worse, there is the monitor trade... Sickening.

Unknown, unusual species - every day another unknown species gets offered on KS classifieds. MANY perish due to lack of understanding of the species. Why must 99 percent of the imported snakes die just because they are pretty?

Green

Personally, I would have a difficult time running a pet store, I'd have to screen everyone to sell them an animal

I agree with you,Wayne,the green iguana is a disaster! Here is a high maintenance animal that needs special care and equipment to proprely house. Can grow to 5 or 6 feet or more and yet it has some how replaced the baby red eared slider as the first pet reptile. It's as stupid as taking your driving test at the Indy 500. This is no joke. These business practices have not escaped the eyes of our law makers. Every year bills are brought before the Senate and the house by I'll informed law makers that preach to other less informed law maker and try to outlaw all retile importation. Take a look at the laws in your own states and you will find a rapidly growing list of prohibited reptiles.

[Bill]

I getting ready to leave for a show so I don't have time to make any long comments. I will say this, yes, it does feel good to vent. Glad to meet you Bill and I will check out "this island earth" for some of my gecko wants

I'll write more later when I have time. Glad I haven't offended anyone. It does seem that we can all get along.

Oh yeah, anyone Racine Wisconsin area (between Chicago and Milwaukee closer to Milwaukee) today check out sewerfest at the south hills country club on frontage road off I94. Probably not many garters there (they are flighty, hard to feed and they musk all the time but there will be a nice selection of CBB only animals. Definately the best show in Wisconsin. Its no Tinley Park but then again vendor tables are only $30.00 and admission is only $5.00 so what do you expect.

Stop by at the Tropical Oasis table and say Hi. Ask for Steve

Sschind,How's it going? Glad you feel better. Sodo I, It was great to meet you. The gecko's are handled by my partner at another location. The number is 1-603-234-1296. Ask for john. Thanks! And the best of luck with your show!

[mycolorfulheart]

I wrote a paper about the pet trade about a year ago!

The things that bother me the most are

1. Animals that do not make good pets, or that do make good pets but should only be sold to an experienced buyer, being so cheap and readily avaliable. An example we're all familiar with would be green iguanas. They are amazing animals but how many die because the customer was told, "Oh it won't grow any more if you keep it in a small cage. All you need to feed it is lettuce!"

When I first moved out of my mom's house and out on my own, I went looking for a low maintenance pet. My friend talked me into getting hermit crabs (I should have done research on it first, but I trusted her, and she had been told some very bad information. We've both grown from the experience and she now believes hermits shouldn't be pets.) Well, hermits are incredibly cheap, found in almost every pet store. And the amount of misleading and false information on them is incredible. Pet store employees say, "They are the easiest pets ever!" And even published books have false information on them. In reality they are extremely sensitive to humidity, heat, and other hermits. The stress from being in captivity is the reason they don't breed--that to me sends off red flags that they shouldn't be in captivity at all! They need fresh and salt water, and a varied diet far different than the fish meal blends being sold as 'hermit crab food!'

The first crab I bought was about the size of my fist and estimated to be 20 years old. (At the time he was older than I was!) He had survived so long in the wild, only to die 6 months later at my house. I tried my luck with other crabs, and eventually all died but one. I tried everything to keep them happy but none of it worked. I gave it up for adoption to a more experienced owner. Any animal that stands a better chance of survival in the wild should stay IN THE WILD. No one cares about these creatures because they are primitive crustaceans, but let me tell you they are amazing and beautiful and don't deserve to be murdered. There is alot more I could say about hermits, and my second point, but I'm late for a movie so I'll post back late!

[Zephyr]

I wrote a paper about the pet trade about a year ago!

The things that bother me the most are

1. Animals that do not make good pets, or that do make good pets but should only be sold to an experienced buyer, being so cheap and readily avaliable. An example we're all familiar with would be green iguanas. They are amazing animals but how many die because the customer was told, "Oh it won't grow any more if you keep it in a small cage. All you need to feed it is lettuce!"

When I first moved out of my mom's house and out on my own, I went looking for a low maintenance pet. My friend talked me into getting hermit crabs (I should have done research on it first, but I trusted her, and she had been told some very bad information. We've both grown from the experience and she now believes hermits shouldn't be pets.) Well, hermits are incredibly cheap, found in almost every pet store. And the amount of misleading and false information on them is incredible. Pet store employees say, "They are the easiest pets ever!" And even published books have false information on them. In reality they are extremely sensitive to humidity, heat, and other hermits. The stress from being in captivity is the reason they don't breed--that to me sends off red flags that they shouldn't be in captivity at all! They need fresh and salt water, and a varied diet far different than the fish meal blends being sold as 'hermit crab food!'

The first crab I bought was about the size of my fist and estimated to be 20 years old. (At the time he was older than I was!) He had survived so long in the wild, only to die 6 months later at my house. I tried my luck with other crabs, and eventually all died but one. I tried everything to keep them happy but none of it worked. I gave it up for adoption to a more experienced owner. Any animal that stands a better chance of survival in the wild should stay IN THE WILD. No one cares about these creatures because they are primitive crustaceans, but let me tell you they are amazing and beautiful and don't deserve to be murdered. There is alot more I could say about hermits, and my second point, but I'm late for a movie so I'll post back late!

I too have dabbled in hermit crabs; if there's one species that can be kept, it's the purple claws. Everything else is destined for disaster in captivity. ):

[Bill]

I wrote a paper about the pet trade about a year ago!

The things that bother me the most are

1. Animals that do not make good pets, or that do make good pets but should only be sold to an experienced buyer, being so cheap and readily avaliable. An example we're all familiar with would be green iguanas. They are amazing animals but how many die because the customer was told, "Oh it won't grow any more if you keep it in a small cage. All you need to feed it is lettuce!"

When I first moved out of my mom's house and out on my own, I went looking for a low maintenance pet. My friend talked me into getting hermit crabs (I should have done research on it first, but I trusted her, and she had been told some very bad information. We've both grown from the experience and she now believes hermits shouldn't be pets.) Well, hermits are incredibly cheap, found in almost every pet store. And the amount of misleading and false information on them is incredible. Pet store employees say, "They are the easiest pets ever!" And even published books have false information on them. In reality they are extremely sensitive to humidity, heat, and other hermits. The stress from being in captivity is the reason they don't breed--that to me sends off red flags that they shouldn't be in captivity at all! They need fresh and salt water, and a varied diet far different than the fish meal blends being sold as 'hermit crab food!'

The first crab I bought was about the size of my fist and estimated to be 20 years old. (At the time he was older than I was!) He had survived so long in the wild, only to die 6 months later at my house. I tried my luck with other crabs, and eventually all died but one. I tried everything to keep them happy but none of it worked. I gave it up for adoption to a more experienced owner. Any animal that stands a better chance of survival in the wild should stay IN THE WILD. No one cares about these creatures because they are primitive crustaceans, but let me tell you they are amazing and beautiful and don't deserve to be murdered. There is alot more I could say about hermits, and my second point, but I'm late for a movie so I'll post back late!

Hey, thanks for poping in to vent! I think you are a very special person to be able to care that much for a hermit crab. I wish i had that much heart. I do believe however that we are all conected on this planet. All of us part of a much larger eco system tied together in one big strand of DNA. How many breaks in the DNA can we make before it all falls apart?
So who cares about hermit crabs and iguanas? Well what if some new virus should break out and our own survival depends on an enzime that can only be found in hermit crabs or iguanas? A large amount of our drugs come from the rain forest plants and there burning it down. We don't even know what future cures have been lost. Were just throughing it all away.
Hey nice talking to ya!

[Stefan-A]

Hey, thanks for poping in to vent! I think you are a very special person to be able to care that much for a hermit crab. I wish i had that much heart. I do believe however that we are all conected on this planet. All of us part of a much larger eco system tied together in one big strand of DNA. How many breaks in the DNA can we make before it all falls apart?
So who cares about hermit crabs and iguanas? Well what if some new virus should break out and our own survival depends on an enzime that can only be found in hermit crabs or iguanas? A large amount of our drugs come from the rain forest plants and there burning it down. We don't even know what future cures have been lost. Were just throughing it all away.
Hey nice talking to ya!

We can wipe out 95% of all species and still have a functioning ecosystem. It's very sensitive to disturbances at that point (which is the real problem), but it should still work.

I did pull that "95%" out of my arse, but it's not far from the estimated figure, which I'll have to try to look up when I get home. The point was that the ecosystem can endure pretty damn much before it starts to collapse. Apparently, this has actually been tested.