Hello

[Invisible Snake]

I am going to say she is a Lake Chapala garter snake. I'm no expert so I googled pictures to be sure.

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[BLUESIRTALIS]

LOOKS LIKE A LAKE CHAPALA GARTER TO ME (Thamnophis eques obscurus)!

The snake is the one pictured in my avatar but I will try and take some better photo's of her today. She moves quickly so not the easiest of subjects. I have been told by a chap that he thinks she is a Lake Chapala garter snake but I have come across another man who has Lake Cuitzio Garter snakes and his juv's look a lot like mine, to me any way. I bought her from a pet shop and the owner couldn't remember the name only that it had Lake in it and he couldn't pronounce it. He was told it was a rather rare type not too common amongst keeps. I fell in love with her squat size and beautiful big eyes as well as her colouring.

[chris-uk]

I'd want to see another photo, but when I saw those two pics it made me think immediately of:



Which is a shot of my baby Cuitzeo from last year. I'm hesitant because there aren't many Cuitzeos around, but I do know a breeding age pair were sold not a million miles from Cambridgeshire last year, and I don't have first-hand experience of baby Chapalas. There's also a few Lake Chapala Garters around, including someone who bred some over Essex or Norfolk part of the country. And going from the size in Ruth's photo, whatever T. equis species it is it isn't very old.

"I fell in love with her squat size and beautiful big eyes as well as her colouring."......

She won't stay squat for long. If she is female (I don't know how positive you are on it's sex) then she's one of the larger species. At 2.5 years-old my female Cuitzeo is now 380g and somewhere a little over 100cm.

Anyway, congratulations. You have great taste in garters, whether she's a Cuitzeo or a Chapala she is a gorgeous snake.



(BTW Steve.... looks like Greg was wrong as well )

[Ruth]

I will try and get a full body shot in a couple of days as she's just fed and I like to leave her be. She is only a babe and has been sexed by the shop owner he popped her (is that the term) when I choose her. I know she will grow reasonably large but she's still a squat snake compared to my slender corns. I love the shape of her and other garters, I also love how active she is.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?

i'd want to see another photo, but when i saw those two pics it made me think immediately of:



which is a shot of my baby cuitzeo from last year. I'm hesitant because there aren't many cuitzeos around, but i do know a breeding age pair were sold not a million miles from cambridgeshire last year, and i don't have first-hand experience of baby chapalas. There's also a few lake chapala garters around, including someone who bred some over essex or norfolk part of the country. And going from the size in ruth's photo, whatever t. Equis species it is it isn't very old.


[i]
she won't stay squat for long. If she is female (i don't know how positive you are on it's sex) then she's one of the larger species. At 2.5 years-old my female cuitzeo is now 380g and somewhere a little over 100cm.

Anyway, congratulations. You have great taste in garters, whether she's a cuitzeo or a chapala she is a gorgeous snake.



(btw steve.... Looks like greg was wrong as well )

[Ruth]

Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?

I'm sorry if this goes wrong but it's the first time I've used a forum and don't know how to include the quotes etc. She doesn't have any yellow like the Cuitzeonoensis pictured above and she has a paler brown dorsil line runing down her back which I cant see in the above picture either. Presumably as she matures she will change.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

By looking at your avatar you would think cuitzeonoensis, but by looking at the pics you posted and by your description i would still say lake chapala.

[chris-uk]

I'm sorry if this goes wrong but it's the first time I've used a forum and don't know how to include the quotes etc. She doesn't have any yellow like the Cuitzeonoensis pictured above and she has a paler brown dorsil line runing down her back which I cant see in the above picture either. Presumably as she matures she will change.

I'd say Chapala is right on the balance of the photos and they one in your avatar. The avatar photo seems to have a faint checkered pattern, which wouldn't be typical of a Cuitzeo. And if the dorsal stripe is pale brown (is her colouring actually brown? In the photos it looked black to me, but that could be light) then that almost nails it. Let's face it, Lake Cuitzeo and Lake Chapala garters are closely related, and part of what I was going on was the shape of the head.

As she gets older her colours will develop. From my reading (the baby Cuitzeo above died before he developed his adult colours, but still changed significantly from birth) you can expect it to colour up nicely over the coming months.

Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?

The dorsal and lateral stripes are almost invisible in my adults. I can just about make them out in my female, but the male is jet black. I guess it's a sort of bluish, in that it's still black, but a lighter shade of black. Their bellies are like a iridescent, gun-metal blue in the right light.

By looking at your avatar you would think cuitzeonoensis, but by looking at the pics you posted and by your description i would still say lake chapala.

I'd actually say the photos convince me in the opposite way - the avatar says Chapala, the photos say Cuitzeo.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

The avatar to me looked all black, but i do need glasses. Lol

[Ruth]

I'd say Chapala is right on the balance of the photos and they one in your avatar. The avatar photo seems to have a faint checkered pattern, which wouldn't be typical of a Cuitzeo. And if the dorsal stripe is pale brown

(is her colouring actually brown? In the photos it looked black to me, but that could be light)

then that almost nails it. Let's face it, Lake Cuitzeo and Lake Chapala garters are closely related, and part of what I was going on was the shape of the head.

As she gets older her colours will develop. From my reading (the baby Cuitzeo above died before he developed his adult colours, but still changed significantly from birth) you can expect it to colour up nicely over the coming months.



The dorsal and lateral stripes are almost invisible in my adults. I can just about make them out in my female, but the male is jet black. I guess it's a sort of bluish, in that it's still black, but a lighter shade of black. Their bellies are like a iridescent, gun-metal blue in the right light.



I'd actually say the photos convince me in the opposite way - the avatar says Chapala, the photos say Cuitzeo.

I'd say she's nearly black but in fact a very dark brown. Getting her into the right light wasn't easy but the photo's are a pretty good likeness. It would be great to find out who sold the snake. If anyone knows of anyone in the Cambridge (east anglia) area who breeds them. She was sold along with some others to Peter Rice reptiles which is a new shop in March, Cambridgeshire. Peter has promised he will contact the breeder but its been a good while now and he has either forgotten or can't get hold of them.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your opinion.