A question about mating and breeding

[paulh]

Garter snakes can mate in the fall and store the sperm over the winter. And I have heard that corn snakes can mate in the spring, produce a clutch of eggs, and then produce a second clutch of fertile eggs a month or two after the first.

[gregmonsta]

I've had several of my snakes attempt litters of stored sperm. I currently have a Florida blue that has decided to try again so to speak. Last year I had my big parietalis produce a stillborn amongst a collection of 'slugs' a year after being mated.
I know others who have commented on owning garters and regularily getting two litters a year.
In the wild it's more difficult to prove due to the chance of meeting a mate as well as not knowing if the 'late' litter was actually simply due to the female not reaching prime condition until later in the year - but has been hinted at in some studies.

[Steveo]

And I have heard that corn snakes can mate in the spring, produce a clutch of eggs, and then produce a second clutch of fertile eggs a month or two after the first.

A lot of snake species can "double clutch" if you remove the first clutch right away. If the female is healthy, she can lay another.

Some birds are the same way. If a couple eggs disappear early in the incubation period, they'll lay a couple more to have a full nest. They might abandon the nest if all eggs disappear though.

[ConcinusMan]

Some birds are the same way. If a couple eggs disappear early in the incubation period, they'll lay a couple more to have a full nest.

True. I used to breed and raise fancy pigeons. If I wanted more babies out of a particlular pair, I would wait until they lay their second egg and then take it right away before incubation starts. I would then place it in the nest of another pair that are only incubating one egg. Then the pair I stole the egg from would just lay another. That way I get 3 babies, not just two. (brood size is always just one, or two with pigeons)

If I wanted to prevent a pair from laying eggs/raising babies, I would steal their eggs during the laying or incubation phase, and replace them with wooden ones. They would sit on the wooden ones and stop laying. If I didn't replace them with wooden ones, they would just lay more eggs.

I had a breed called "Chinese Owl". They can't raise their own babies at all because their beaks are too short to feed the babies. (for this reason, the breed is on the brink of extinction) The only way is to put their eggs in the nest of another breed. Keeping that other breed sitting on wooden eggs helps because I would switch the wooden ones for "Chinese owl" eggs.

Not so sure it works the same for getting snakes to "double clutch" since most snakes abandon their eggs anyway. I've never heard of garters double clutching but they can certainly have another litter the following year even if they don't mate again. I've had northwesterns give birth to 1-3 offspring several years after last male contact.

[chris-uk]

Coincidentally, I just spotted this article on the BBC website:
BBC Nature - Virgin births discovered in wild snakes

It refers to Warren Booths work, but if you read through it all there's a mention of a checkered garter snake as well. It's not quite on topic (ie stored sperm). It's well written and easy to read though.
If the frequency of facilitative parthenogenisis is higher than we thought it could be another explanation for litters born when there have been years without male contact. Sperm storage could be a shorter term mechanism, with FP being more likely for litters born after a longer period without male contact.

[guidofatherof5]

Parthenogenesis, awesome subject.

Parthenogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ConcinusMan]

If the frequency of facilitative parthenogenisis is higher than we thought it could be another explanation for litters born when there have been years without male contact.

It would be obvious though, that it's not parthenogenisis, if you get both sexes in the litter. With partho litters, all babies are female. They are genetic clones of the mother. Not sure how he could have different morphs in a partho clutch though, they would have to explain that. But I know that when a normal snake has a partho clutch, they're all female and have identical patterns/markings that mom has. They are clones.

Again, I don't understand why all the babies weren't exactly like mother since they are supposed to her clones but if they are partho, then they're definitely all female.