Ethics question.

[Sonya610]

As long as you scrutinize who you sell them to so that they don't end up back in the same bad state they were in (if they were in one at all) There is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

You are a real animal lover. I wasn't going to harp on the quality of the buyers because well...very few care when they sell reptiles.

I will say I personally would prefer to buy a rescued or responsibly "flipped" reptile, even if it wasn't exactly what I had in mind, over a fancy breeder backed reptile if given the choice.

[Jeff B]

Nothing wrong with what you are doing, you are getting paid for your time, work, effort, caring, and follow thru after the sale....the same as any quality reputable breeder. No need to lump all and/or demonize all "flippers" and no need to lump all and/or demonize all breeders either.

[ConcinusMan]

As long as the already mentioned concerns and conditions are met, I don't see anything wrong with it at all. In fact, a lot people already do this. So many in fact, that even though I don't see anything wrong with it, craigslist users seem to hate it with a passion. "flippers" as they call them, are for some reason a hated group of people. If someone gets their animal on craigslist, then sells it later at a higher price, people get all kinds of bent out of shape. Seems like once you get flagged as a "flipper" nobody wants to let you have their animals.

I guess people are just sore about not getting more money for their animals, and then to have someone turn around and sell at a higher price, just ticks them off. I don't know. Personally I wouldn't mind if someone flipped an animal I sold to them, but apparently a lot of people do mind and so "flipping" , especially on craigslist, is generally highly frowned upon.

[Millinex]

absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing, and there is plenty to commend it, what strikes me is that you have a strong personal moral code [even though you may not have realized it ] so just listen to your inner voice and you will not go far wrong. best wishes for your enterprise

Very encouraging to hear this.

If you are honest with the buyers and tell them the history (if they ask) then I say you are doing a very good thing! I am ultra judgemental and have done rescue of some sort or other all my adult life, and you are not doing anything questionable or unsavory (like rushing out to capture as many wild reptiles as possible for some quick cash).

You are making some cash but also being responsible and caring towards the animal, I get the feeling even if you took an animal that needed longer term care (and that meant a loss of profit) you would do your best to care for them and not throw them into the freezer just because you couldn't turn them into $$$ fast enough. That is what matters

Really depends on the buyer, I assure them that they ate, are healthy, and doing well, some individuals will not take an animal who was unhealthy in the past for some reason, however most of them hear the story and don't mind, although I've had a few guys try to lowball me from it, lol.

As for wild animals, the cloest you could really get with me is every summer since I was a kid I'd go catch a male/female pair or two and breed them, I'd release a majority of the babies, keep the pair or two, and a couple babies, and sell those. Part of me doesn't like selling them at all, but at the same time, thousands of wild reptiles are dealt with everyday, and a few in my eyes isn't detrimental.

As long as you scrutinize who you sell them to so that they don't end up back in the same bad state they were in (if they were in one at all) There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. To me, it's win-win. You are helping the snakes find a real home again, and you are helping yourself, and at the same time, you are getting to experience different types of snakes and growing in your knowledge of tips and tricks as far as care goes. As long as you are making sure the snakes are healthy first and passing on good information on care, it's all good! What you are doing would be considered by some as "flipping" where you are buying snakes and reselling them for a profit. Many reptile keepers look down upon this practice BUT the difference is that a typical flipper will buy a cheap snake, no matter what it is, and turn around and sell it the next day to whoever is willing to pay for it... no questions asked, doesn't matter if the snake's okay just as long as he's go money in his pocket. Little to no care is placed on the animal, so IMO what you are doing doesn't make you a flipper... it makes you smart and the snakes more or less are going to benefit from it. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about this, you are doing it the right way. So no shame here!

essentially what you are doing here is the same as what a breeder does, sells outwardly healthy animals for a financial gain. The only difference, is that you did not produce the animals yourself. A lot of reptiles sadly tolerate negligence so well that they won't even seem ill to an inexperienced person. Then someone like you or me sees them and says oh god... feed your snake! I have rescued SO many starved ball pythons... from people who think it's perfectly okay to feed them a small adult mouse once a month. Once they start getting the proper care its AMAZING how fast they bounce back. (I do not buy/sell rescued ball pythons, I take them in, fatten them up and I give them away) Any herp keeper who criticizes you for doing what you are doing is a hypocrit as I can guarantee at some point they have sold an outwardly healthy animal they themselves did not produce.

I sort of called it flipping, but flipping sounded too.. dirty haha. All of my buyers are people who either know what they are doing or are very eager to learn. I had a father come with his kid to pick up a corn snake the other day, and the amount of research he had done into various snakes was actually pretty astonishing. All of my customers go through various "quizzes" to make sure they have some idea what the hell they are doing.

You are a real animal lover. I wasn't going to harp on the quality of the buyers because well...very few care when they sell reptiles.

I will say I personally would prefer to buy a rescued or responsibly "flipped" reptile, even if it wasn't exactly what I had in mind, over a fancy breeder backed reptile if given the choice.

I've been pleased with the amount of knowledge my customers have had, compared to the situations I normally get the animals in.


Thanks for all the support everyone, you make me feel a bit more at ease about everything =)

[Spankenstyne]

As long as there's full disclosure like you're saying then there's nothing wrong with it. Yes you're flipping them but imo are doing it the right way, by making sure they're rehabbed before you sell them and communicating the known history. Sadly it's more than some stores do.

[ConcinusMan]

It's funny you brought this up because of what happened on my local craigslist recently. A guy bought a snake from a girl who needed it gone fast. SHE set the price at $180. Well the guy bought the snake and a few months later put it up for sale on the same craigslist for $300. It practically started WW3. I mean, this girl had a fit and went on a rampage you wouldn't believe. The snake sold at the higher price too. Man, was she pissed.

I loved the guy's answer to all her ranting though. He says the snake was half starved, had a respiratory infection requiring vet and antibiotics, and had a case of mites so bad you can't even imagine. He showed the before and after pics just to clear the air. It clearly showed the snake was in terrible shape when he purchased it, and it was obviously much healthier when he sold it at the higher price. He even showed vet bill receipts because he said he was sick and tired of people who neglect their snakes, and then bash the "flippers" for doing what they do. Judging from the vet receipts the guy made very little money, if any, but he did save one badly neglected snake which surely would have died if not for his efforts. The "flipper" sure put her in her place. Everyone from that point on was on his side and told the girl to stop whining about it and start taking care of her animals.

[Spankenstyne]

*referring to the girl in Richard's post*

It continues to boggle my mind how anyone can complain when they sell a snake for what they feel is a fair price and then find out that person has then sold it for more money and freak out. Good for them for working their connections, knowledge & skills. Either work at doing the same and compete, or just accept it for what it is.

Seems simple to me, I mean she was happy with the price she got at the time right? Who cares what someone else is able to get for it later on, nothing stopped her from doing the same from the beginning.

I see it a lot in the hobby up here too & just laugh. I mean if I sell someone a snake for $100 and they sell it later for more money then good for them. I was happy with my set price and then now know that I maybe misjudged the market and could get more for mine. Either way I was happy with my sale at the time so who cares what happens after.

Just my $.02

[Sonya610]

I sort of called it flipping, but flipping sounded too.. dirty haha. All of my buyers are people who either know what they are doing or are very eager to learn.

What about the sellers though? If they don't screen the home, or are not taking care of the animal it is one thing BUT if they are careful and sell to you cheap because they believe you will keep the animal long term and provide an excellent home etc...then I would see that as immoral.

I may have to rehome my ball python at some point, if I do I will likely ask very little for her and send her off with a custom cage simply because I want her to have a comfortable setup. If someone lied to me and said they would keep her long term only to flip her on craigslist and make a profit from the cage and the animal I would be very very unhappy indeed. It wouldn't be about the money as much as the fact I want to make sure she goes to a mature and caring home and don't want her dragged around or mistreated by some adolescent male that thinks snakes make cool and scary pets to impress his friends with.

In fact just reading this I definitely won't think of advertising on craigstlist or any where else online if I choose to rehome her.

[Millinex]

What about the sellers though? If they don't screen the home, or are not taking care of the animal it is one thing BUT if they are careful and sell to you cheap because they believe you will keep the animal long term and provide an excellent home etc...then I would see that as immoral.

I may have to rehome my ball python at some point, if I do I will likely ask very little for her and send her off with a custom cage simply because I want her to have a comfortable setup. If someone lied to me and said they would keep her long term only to flip her on craigslist and make a profit from the cage and the animal I would be very very unhappy indeed. It wouldn't be about the money as much as the fact I want to make sure she goes to a mature and caring home and don't want her dragged around or mistreated by some adolescent male that thinks snakes make cool and scary pets to impress his friends with.

In fact just reading this I definitely won't think of advertising on craigstlist or any where else online if I choose to rehome her.

I haven't had the problem really come up yet, except with the bullsnake I picked up. He gave me a special deal on him and had taken great care of him, part of the deal was if I ever couldn't handle the snake to give it back at same price anytime, and I'm keeping it as my personal pet now. The bearded dragons, which where in such awful health, I did tell her I was keeping, however, who's to say she would have given them to me knowing I would flip them, they where sick and needed out, so I don't feel too bad about it.
-Mike

[ConcinusMan]

I still say that once the owner gives or sells the animal to you, they release all interest in said animal. What you do with it after that is no longer any of their business. Cold perhaps but the fact is that animals are property. You don't see anyone having a fit if you buy a car cheap and resell it.