Thamnophis on speed

[ConcinusMan]

hitsurfer has PM'd me several times on the issue. It does sound like the behavior is how a garter acts when it is in severe pain.

[oki-inu]

To help her give birth oil for food will be put up in her to help the babies "slip".

I've heard of that being done for birds.

[ConcinusMan]

When I was raising cockatiels, sometimes the breeder females would get egg bound. Pharmaceutical grade mineral oil injected with an oral syringe "up there" combined with warm moist towel wraps would usually get the eggs to "slip" but these are fertilized eggs which have not yet been incubated.

Seems to me like if that is needed to get a garter to "slip" her babies, then somethings terribly wrong. She just might slip a load of stillborns as long as this has been going on because the eggs have already developed and are(were) ready to "hatch".

[hitsurfer]

I have consulted the vet. and he suggested that we awaited the situation. It's not the b1 deficiency. She has probably trouble slipping her babies and that causes the symptoms. Probably because of severe pain as Concinnusman wrote. The vet. could inject something that would help her let go, but he suggested that we used that as a last option.Have tried a warm bath, massage and oil but nothing has happened yet

And yes, the babies will probably be stillborn if she doens't die as a result of being poisened by the dead bodies inside her.

Right now, no visible symptoms, she's under the spot. Won't eat. Drinks alot.

[mustang]

aww man someone allready said it but i was thinking too many babies or she isnt big enough....when checker eats a whole pinky he realigns his jaw and soes the wave thing to push the food down he angles his head like an strike position sometimes to hold it down better if its live food...just my observations...will post pic of somthing similar

[mustang]

i know its a little grainy but it was off my phone

[hitsurfer]

Yeah, I have thought of that, too. That she tries to push the babies down, if that's what you mean? The last few days I have began to doubt the "pain-theory". After all, it's a reptile, and it doesn't feel pain the way we do.

One of my snake mates mentioned that she may be too fat (in general, not because of the gravidity) to slip the babies. Don't know what to say about that.

She's still not eating

[ConcinusMan]

They certainly do feel pain. And if it's intense enough, a reaction can be observed.

[mustang]

go do that oil thing...if you think that she to fat or too young

[hitsurfer]

I have been trying the oil

Yes, of course they do feel pain, but I was having a conversation with one of the leading authorities on reptiles in Denmark. I told him that I had a fear that she was in severe pain and that it causes the convulsions. He told me that I should be careful to "humanize" reptiles when it comes to pain. He said that it sounded more like a brain suffering - MAYBE as a result of lack of b vitamins.

Don't know what it is - only time will tell - just collecting opinions and then I try to figure it out.