T.s.pickeringii or T. ordinoides?

[Dracaena828]

I was looking throught past posts and saw all the confusion as to whether people had T.s. pickeringii or T. ordinoides and am curious if everyone has now determined which type of snake they have? By doing the scale count I have determined my Azuli to be a Puget. I was confused at first because I kept getting different counts of 17 and then 19, but reading further up on it I learned that I was doing scale counts at different points on the body. After counting several times at the mid-section I repeatedly came up with 19.
I also would be interested to hear the sizes of people's Pugets. I've read that they tend to be smaller, and indeed my female is pretty small. I'd estimate her length at around 22'' but she is very slim, much thinner than pictures of other female garters I've seen. However, I do still think there is a possibility she's gravid due to the thicker region in the lower portion of her body between middle and vent. Just curious to hear other's observations....

[Cazador]

Hi Angela,

It seems that the blue T. ordinoides are much less common than the T.s. pickeringii, but both are being sold. I had one T. ordinoides for sure, but the rest were pickeringii. The scale counts are the most reliable method of determination because there is a degree of overlap and subjectivity in the other characteristics.

Rick

[ssssnakeluvr]

ordinoides have small rows of spots along the stripes. pickeringii have larger checker pattern...."bob" on kingsnake classifieds has some good picks of pickeringii on there now. there is a baby ordinoides pic in the monthly contest thread.

[mikm]

Just curious ... which of these are considered 'rare' at least in collections ??

[ssssnakeluvr]

both are not common in collections, but not rare in wild. I believe Washington state doesn't allow collection of local species so I am not sure if this bob fella is collecting legally or not. pickeringii"s range is in washington and a little into canada. he might be getting them from canada but I don't know. ordinoides show up occasionally here at Petco pet stores...butthey range from washington to northern california.

[mikm]

Hey Don, Thank you very much for the info, much appreciated. MaMa Radix sure is a beauty !!! She looks so HUGE she scares me,lol ...

best wishes,
marian