Ethics question.

[Millinex]

So, this is something I've been pondering for awhile now, and was wondering how others in the hobby personally feel about this sort of thing, so I thought I'd throw it out...

2 weeks back I found myself out of work, I'm a college student who worked part time to pay for school, and gas, and food for my beasties, other than that I didn't have much money. I found myself needing money and turned to the one thing I know better than anything, herps. I know a lot of people breed for extra money, but that's a long term plan, and I needed cash asap to pay the bills.. So I found myself cruising craigslist browsing listings and found myself a group of snakes, and enclosures for cheap, I ended up taking the snakes, (some dehydrated) and fixing them up a bit and relisting them on craigslist at a higher price, I made plenty of sales and I'm actually making enough to fund myself right now.

Now then, how does the herp community view this? I don't sell higher than petstores, I offer full information, and the ability to contact me with questions/concerns after purchase. I also only make sure to sell animals that are 100% healthy and ready for new homes, I don't just dump them.. For example I have a pair of bearded dragons I got for free, however, they where sick, dehydrated, starved, the one had a bad tail, and I'm fixing them up and will later offer them at a higher price with the right information to a proper owner.

I always wonder if the herp community frowns on it, but all my customers seem very happy, and I'm doing what I enjoy... Thoughts guys?

[infernalis]

Sounds like creative business to me

Car lots buy automobiles at auction for dirt, detail them and tune them up, then put them out as used cars for a substantial profit..

what you are doing is right along the same lines, nice thinking.

[Stefan-A]

At the moment I can't think of anything to complain about. If some of the animals are in poor condition as you say, you are at least giving them a new chance.

The one thing that concerns me, though, is diseases. I hope you take appropriate precautions with each of the animals.

[Millinex]

At the moment I can't think of anything to complain about. If some of the animals are in poor condition as you say, you are at least giving them a new chance.

The one thing that concerns me, though, is diseases. I hope you take appropriate precautions with each of the animals.

I've spent a lot of time around herps and I'm very good with them buy now, all my animals spend enough time with me that I am sure they are clean of anything, any animal I have the slightest doubt about stays with me until I'm certain it's better. I have a male bearded with a tail thats crushed and looks like absolute trash that I'm not moving until its healed and he's back on his feet and everything checks out, I also work with one of my zoology teachers who happens to be an ex zoo vet with some of my animals.

Regardless, I've still had to turn away a few, I had someone try to give me a large red tail with a lot of rat bites, and bad infections the other day. No room, very expensive vet bills, and risk of her passing whatever she had on while I had to long term care for her was not worth it for me.

[Millinex]

As an example:

This was one of the 6 snakes I originally purchased. He was around a 2 foot motley stripe corn. I paid around $20 for him/his setup, made sure he was clean, made sure he ate and passed fecal, and sold him for $100, buyer is extremely happy.

-Mike

[PINJOHN]

absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing, and there is plenty to commend it, what strikes me is that you have a strong personal moral code [even though you may not have realized it ] so just listen to your inner voice and you will not go far wrong. best wishes for your enterprise

[Sonya610]

If you are honest with the buyers and tell them the history (if they ask) then I say you are doing a very good thing! I am ultra judgemental and have done rescue of some sort or other all my adult life, and you are not doing anything questionable or unsavory (like rushing out to capture as many wild reptiles as possible for some quick cash).

You are making some cash but also being responsible and caring towards the animal, I get the feeling even if you took an animal that needed longer term care (and that meant a loss of profit) you would do your best to care for them and not throw them into the freezer just because you couldn't turn them into $$$ fast enough. That is what matters

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

As long as you scrutinize who you sell them to so that they don't end up back in the same bad state they were in (if they were in one at all) There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. To me, it's win-win. You are helping the snakes find a real home again, and you are helping yourself, and at the same time, you are getting to experience different types of snakes and growing in your knowledge of tips and tricks as far as care goes. As long as you are making sure the snakes are healthy first and passing on good information on care, it's all good! What you are doing would be considered by some as "flipping" where you are buying snakes and reselling them for a profit. Many reptile keepers look down upon this practice BUT the difference is that a typical flipper will buy a cheap snake, no matter what it is, and turn around and sell it the next day to whoever is willing to pay for it... no questions asked, doesn't matter if the snake's okay just as long as he's go money in his pocket. Little to no care is placed on the animal, so IMO what you are doing doesn't make you a flipper... it makes you smart and the snakes more or less are going to benefit from it. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about this, you are doing it the right way. So no shame here!

essentially what you are doing here is the same as what a breeder does, sells outwardly healthy animals for a financial gain. The only difference, is that you did not produce the animals yourself. A lot of reptiles sadly tolerate negligence so well that they won't even seem ill to an inexperienced person. Then someone like you or me sees them and says oh god... feed your snake! I have rescued SO many starved ball pythons... from people who think it's perfectly okay to feed them a small adult mouse once a month. Once they start getting the proper care its AMAZING how fast they bounce back. (I do not buy/sell rescued ball pythons, I take them in, fatten them up and I give them away) Any herp keeper who criticizes you for doing what you are doing is a hypocrit as I can guarantee at some point they have sold an outwardly healthy animal they themselves did not produce.

[Sonya610]

As long as you scrutinize who you sell them to so that they don't end up back in the same bad state they were in (if they were in one at all) There is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

You are a real animal lover. I wasn't going to harp on the quality of the buyers because well...very few care when they sell reptiles.

I will say I personally would prefer to buy a rescued or responsibly "flipped" reptile, even if it wasn't exactly what I had in mind, over a fancy breeder backed reptile if given the choice.

[kibakiba]

I actually think you're doing something good. I mean, as long as you aren't selling the ones that are visibly unhealthy, which you say you aren't. You are really giving them a chance at life. At least you are willing to take care of them until they are healthy enough to be sold. Hope everything turns out well for you!