where to find sub species

[Barak666]

Hi!

I'm thinking of doing an enclosure to keep few garters (see my post in the enclosure section)

I live in Quebec, Canada, so other that the T.s.sirtalis there is no other sub species here, anyway i'm not interest in WC.

The sub-species that I would like to have is a T.S concinnus, they are truly the nicest of the color pattern (in my taste) and probably a T.s.similis (which is my girlfriend favorite). I was thinking to start with 2 males or 2 females and in the future adding one of different gender (will learn to keep them well before thinking about breeding)

First of all, can both of theses sub-species live in the same terrarium?

Is there any breeders amongs you for these sub-species? I'm waiting for informations from the Quebec Government to know about laws for possession and border crossing for theses garters.

The project will be for this summer (minimum : june-july) time to make the terrarium (waiting for the snow to melt before building it) and time to adjusts every parameters.

I'm new in snakes/garters captivity, so your advices are welcomes.

Thank you

Mathieu

[mustang]

hi....well i dont think you can put the different species n same cage also whats wrong with w/cs? i got one and hes great.

[Barak666]

I would prefer to have a breeded garter instead of a W/C, first because of parasites and secondly, I don't want to put unnecessary pressure on wild populations.

And for the cohabitation of both subspecies my Gf will be a bit disappointed, hopefully she is liking the concinnus too

thank you

Mathieu

[jitami]

Hi Mathieu, welcome to the forum You can place the different subspecies together as long as they are the same sex and about the same size. The only known cannibalistic garters are T. elegans vegrans (wandering garters). Most garter keepers frown on mixed species or subspecies so you wouldn't want to breed them together, but keeping the same sex together should not be a problem at all.

[Barak666]

Thanks a lot

Now the next step is to build the terrarium and then finding young garters of theses 2 sub-species of same sex.

Thanks for the breeding advises what if keeping a female and a male without a brumation period?


Mathieu

[gregmonsta]

Thanks for the breeding advises what if keeping a female and a male without a brumation period?

This would not mean they would not breed. A lot of examples exist of garters breeding without being brumated. So I would not risk this assumption .

[guidofatherof5]

This would not mean they would not breed. A lot of examples exist of garters breeding without being brumated. So I would not risk this assumption .

Non-brumated snakes will breed and breed very readily. That is proven out on the Ranch every year.
Garters are little baby making machines and do their darnedest to keep the species going.

[Barak666]

Good, I will look to have the same gender for both

Are old should be a young garter to identify the sex?

Thanks

Mathieu

[Stefan-A]

The only known cannibalistic garters are T. elegans vegrans (wandering garters).

Plus some of the Mexican species. Apparently they even extracted a baby rattlesnake from one of them.

[ConcinusMan]

Well done Steve. Good post.

I'm still thinking it won't hurt one bit to put garters of opposite sex together. I mean to imply canadian garters. It's not likely they will breed without distinct seasonal changes. Also very unlikely that they will eat each other. Given plenty of room and plenty of hiding places you could even keep a wide range of sizes together. Just my humble opinion.

I'm keeping T. ordinoides and T. s. concinnus together. As small as 5 inches, all the way up to 28 inches. They get along just fine. They sometimes huddle together just like one big happy family. It's soooo cute. Have to watch out for the concinnus at feeding time though. They will bite and attempt to swallow anything that smells like fish. That includes themselves, other snakes, glass, fingers, footballs, anything!

If it smells like fish, it must be fish and must go down the throat, like NOW!

Good thing my ex isn't around anymore.. oh wait. did I just go there?