Garters and Michigan

[Quibble]

So im looking around for details on Michigan's laws on keeping wild caught garter snakes, and its slightly confusing. The Fisheries order FO-224.08 ( http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...2_182417_7.pdf )states that its legal to take up to 6 in combination of any 'other' turtle, snake or lizzard.
But of course, I had to go and open my big mouth and ask wether or not you do indeed need a permit, and do the laws apply to any offspring born while the animal is in your possession.
I spoke to Tom Goniea of the Fisheries Divison on the phone last night, and he told me that its illeagle to keep ANYTHING from the wild without a permit. And as for captive breeding of wild snakes, he could not answer any of my questions.

Now that I've made myself known to the DNR im afraid im a sitting duck for a ticket over little Gimpie.

In the past 8 years I've lived here, there has been MANY kids keeping a frog/toad/snake/bug or five and even frog eggs raising them to tadpoles and then to frogs, and ive never heard that this practice was illeagle without a permit...

Now my intentions are not to start captive breeding of wild snakes for profit or anything, im just looking for the 'what if'. Seeing as how little Gimpie MIGHT be gravid, i dont want to go to jail for suddenly having 20 snakes in my house. Im planning on either releasing all the offspring, or giving a few away and releasing the rest. I MIGHT want to keep one for myself if I decide to set Gimpie free. But not if im going to go to jail for being a snake hussler without proper license. lol

ANY, if not ALL imput/opinions on this situation would be GREATLY appreciated!!

[Quibble]

maybe even some advice? should I let Gimpie go?

[Odie]

If she dose have more then you want let me know please

[Quibble]

If she dose have more then you want let me know please

LOL i sure will if i dont get a ticket before hand!

[Odie]

She's a fighter and the kids would be too
In this corner Weighing in at a hefty 87.4 grams we have Gimpie LOL

[Zephyr]

I contacted the DNR on the issue. They said it's okay to follow the laws outlined on that sheet. I too am from Michigan, and I ran into this issue as well.
I have the letter from MDNR to prove it as well, if you'd like to read over that.

[Quibble]

soo... its okay to collect up to 6 garters, with a daily limit of 3? good!

what if Gimpie has more than 5 babies? I get a ticket? lol
That question couldn't be answered by the man I talked to on the phone, so he referred me to a law enforcement officer (...Dave Davis or something?) who was involved in 'Operation Slithers' ...But he's on vacation until next tuesday... XP


And yes please, I would like to read over the letter!

please and thanks! hehe..

[Zephyr]

Response (Lynne Thoma) - 06/03/2008 08:45 AM
The DNR does not regulate the pet trade. If you have native species you need to
have one of two things, either a recreational fishing license (compliance with
all state regulations is therefore required) or proof that the animals in
question came from legal sources (proof of sale, documentation of lineage etc.;
state regulations do not apply). The legal sources I am aware of are out of
state sources. If you have collected turtles from the wild and keep your
allowed possession limit, DO NOT LET THEM BREED! Even if the individuals you
collected from the wild were done so legally and within the possession limit,
once wild caught native turtles breed you are over the possession limit and in
violation of state law. Furthermore, it is illegal to sell any wild caught
turtle or the offspring of any wild caught turtle. The DNR will not allow or
condone the taking of wildlife as brood stock to supplement the pet industry.
Finally I, strongly advise not allowing pet trade native turtle species to breed
in captivity, you will have no documentation for the offspring produced to prove
their origin did not come from the wild. Without proof of origin, its is
assumed they were taken from the wild and state regulations (season and
possession limits) would apply.

Every year in the fishing pamphlet given out by the MDNR as well, the rules for the take of reptiles and amphibians are listed just like in the article you provided, and if you google "Michigan reptile and amphibian collection" there is another document backing up all of this.
Right here: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Re...s_164917_7.pdf

**Edit- Actually, it looks like YOUR article overrides mine. lol So yours is the "official" stuff.

[Quibble]

If you have native species you need to
have one of two things, either a recreational fishing license (compliance with
all state regulations is therefore required) or proof that the animals in
question came from legal sources (proof of sale, documentation of lineage etc.;
state regulations do not apply).

So because I'm over 17 I need a fishing license to keep Gimpie, the almighty preggo-sumo wrestler? lol

I can understand these laws for turtles, seeing as how some of them in michigan are in fact protected...

...Does ANY garter snake have a documentation of lineage?

and I suppose giving away or trading the offspring of wild caught garter snakes wont be considered a violation, perhaps?

sorry I've always been one for questions, searching high and low for the answers to the 'what if's and 'whatnot's... even if its hopelessly pointless

[snakeman]

I would'nt even worry about it.They are not going to come after you for 50 garters.So if you have a few I would'nt worry about it.