Western Terrestrial Garter - Thamnophis elegans

[gelshark]

My question is based on information that I have found here in these forums and on other internet websites about the distribution of these garters in Colorado. Several members have stated that they are not found in Colorado. I was wondering why they have come to that conclusion. I would like to know what sources they are using. I am not saying that they are incorrect, but I have found information to the contrary stating that they are found here in this wonderful state. It could be that the contrary information that I have found is either outdated or mistaken, but in trying to honestly find the correct answer I have put forth my question to be answered by people that have more knowledge than I currently have. Please help me find the correct answer as it is bothering me very much having the answer unresolved.

[ssssnakeluvr]

it's actually thamnophis elegans vagrans in colorado...some states don't have the most current names or use general names..... Utah listed the valley garters as common garters, thamnophis sirtalis, not t s fitchi....listed the wandering garters as terrestrial garters. I have seen a number of pics of the garters in colorado and they are wandering garters.

for a long while, western terrestrial garters were t elegans terrestris, also known as coast garters. recent studies (I haven't been able to find them yet, but word has gotten around) have removed terrestris and said its another elegans subspecies..not sure if its t e vagrans or t e elegans.

[gelshark]

Is the wandering a type of western terrestrial? That is to say, if it is a wandering it is also a western terrestrial but if it is a western terrestrial it does not have to be a wandering.

On gartersnake.info it lists western terrestrials (Thamnophis elegans) as having several subspecies (as follows) Arizona Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans arizonae, Mountain Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans elegans, San Pedro Mártir Garter Snake -Thamnophis elegans hueyi, Coast Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans terrestris, Wandering Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans vagrans, Upper Basin Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans vascotanneri *However, not all of those subspecies are recognized by Collins*

So my next question what is the big difference between the Wandering and the Western Terrestrial? (visual aids appreciated if applicable)

[Stefan-A]

Is the wandering a type of western terrestrial? That is to say, if it is a wandering it is also a western terrestrial but if it is a western terrestrial it does not have to be a wandering.

In a nutshell.

On gartersnake.info it lists western terrestrials (Thamnophis elegans) as having several subspecies (as follows) Arizona Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans arizonae, Mountain Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans elegans, San Pedro Mártir Garter Snake -Thamnophis elegans hueyi, Coast Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans terrestris, Wandering Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans vagrans, Upper Basin Garter Snake - Thamnophis elegans vascotanneri *However, not all of those subspecies are recognized by Collins*

Currently there are only two recognized subspecies. T. e. elegans and T. e. vagrans.

So my next question what is the big difference between the Wandering and the Western Terrestrial? (visual aids appreciated if applicable)

The wandering garter snake is a western terrestrial. It's just more specific to talk about wandering garters, because western terrestrials include all the subspecies.