To handle...or not

[adamanteus]

I think we've maybe talked about this before, but not recently. What are your views on handling your Garter snake?
I had a discussion with Gregmonsta, during his recent visit to me, and he told me of a study he conducted into this, which seemed to indicate that snakes which are handled frequently increase in weight faster than those which are not handled. I'll let him explain his findings. What do you do? Do you handle your Garters as 'pets'? Do you handle to keep them 'tame'? Or do you keep handling to a bare minimum? What are your reasons for your choices?

Personally, I only handle my Garters when necessary, for cleaning, examination, photo sessions etc. My feeling is that they don't enjoy being handled, they just tolerate it. Although they may well become accustomed to it. I find that during cleaning I have to constantly remove my snakes from my hand/arm etc. as they crawl all over me while I'm working. I believe this to be a feeding instinct or curiosity. They don't feel threatened by my presence, but neither are they 'seeking out my company'.

So, your views please, guys!

[Tori]

I am another that handles only when necessary (for cleaning, feeding, examining, photos, etc) And for 99.9 % I would have to say they only tolerate being held, but there is always the exception. I have one female eastern that I tried to release when she was very young. She refused to leave the area that I released her in. I had opened the carrier that I had her and several others in and left it for 3 hours before coming back for the container. She was still laying beside it. I sat in the grass beside her and she immediately climbed into my lap repeatedly. She just wouldn't leave even after being carried inside the edge of the woods she came back to the container and then into my lap. I decided it was too late to release her and brought her back home. To this day she won't eat unless I let her out of her cage and hold her food for her, after which she goes back into her cage by herself. Well, all of that just tells me that there is always an exception.

[adamanteus]

Fascinating, Tori. Do you think they may get 'imprinted' as birds do, so they rely on their keeper as a parent? That would be odd, as Garters don't provide care for their young. Or maybe it's a simple thought process..... Tori = food, why move away when all your needs are being met right here? I don't know.

[Tori]

She is the only snake of any kind that has acted this way or even close, so I don't know what to make of it. As a baby she was an escape artist and I often found her out of her cage. Or at least, more often than any of the others. But she never tried to run when I found her loose. She just looked disgusted and waited to be picked up. Which is one of the reasons that I included her in the group of native babies to be released. It can get aggrevating to have to be 10 times more careful with one than all the others put together. And at the time I had over 70 babies. But I have lizards running loose, so a loose baby could become lizard food. I built a more secure cage for her and I guess she is here for life.

She definately connects me with food and I wear gloves during feeding. Not because she is a biter, but because she attacks her food and fingers if they get between her and food, but she always spits me out as soon as it hits her my finger isn't a fuzzy. She is very insistent that she be out of her cage to eat or while I clean her cage. She just hangs out on top without trying to get down and has lunged off the top to land on me where she is happy to explore. Maybe she is mental?

[gregmonsta]

I'll try formulate an account of the study I conducted as part of my SYS project at school .... this might take a whiley ...

As I was always keenly interested in biology I took it to SYS level (sixth year studies) as a pre-university prep class. I've been in love with reptiles since I was 5 or so and made enquiries as to wether I could use reptiles in my studies. My teacher made the relevant enquiries and I was eventually allowed two lovely Ribbon snakes.
The question was what to study. Mammals usually get a lot of attention when it comes to this type of research. Growth rate is widely studied and what intrigued me was a much repeated study of Gerbils and other such rodents that shows increased stimulation through handling promotes rapid growth during the formative period. I was very interested in if this would also apply to snakes.
I had two male ribbons (subspecies were unspecified) for the study (Steve and Dave) who were just past 20cms when they arrived. I studied two things - the aforementioned growth stimulation; and vibration triggers in feeding response.
The growth experiment
Steve was the study subject and Dave acted as the control. Being siblings they were almost identical (although Dave started approx 5mm longer than Steve). The conditions of the experiment were as follows:
Steve and Dave were housed together,
Monday - Friday I measured length and weight,
Food would be weighed and offered on a Fri and weighed again after the snakes had eaten their fill.
Steve would be handled for 1hour every Mon-Fri and Dave would be handled for 5mins.
Results - Within the first 3months Steve had already voided the 5mm difference between himself and Dave. They were both growing like crazy over the months that followed and both showed similar burst of growth but Steve always showed a larger increase in mass and would usually put on an extra 1-2mm more than Dave comparatively.
Steve became more active and inquisitive than Dave.
Dave was more prone to musking.
Steve's growth can be attributed to the extra handling and I believe that the gained mass is a definate result of increased muscle tissue from his 'workout' / increased exercising - length could also be accounted for in my findings as Steve had reached past 50cms by the end of the study and was a full 1.2cms longer than Dave(although I must stress that I only had two test subjects and any difference between them could be genetic or otherwise)
After the experiment I did some measuring and discovered that they both achieved a maximum length that was almost identical (I must stress that after the initial 9months experimention they became my pets and were loved to bits and handled regularily for hours on end ) although Steve retained his extra body mass and also, eventually had a longer lifespan (though this could also be attributed to any number of other factors external to the experiment)

[salzar]

okay.... I know I do not have a garter,
but my snake is handaled daily. he rests in my hand and drinks from his water dish and eats from my hand as well .
he will not try to slither away and will stay put when I pick him up and then coiles in my hand and will stay there for a long time, he does venture on the bed but always comes twards me or my hand just to keep close to my skin. he frequently will wrap his tail on one of my fingers and will not come off unless you remove him, mind you he still hunts the worms and I have seen him drink on his own , but has a liking to being handled.
I do think, if given the chance to escape, he might try a jail break!
dont know if this will count...
bye
michelle

[Zephyr]

I feel that you shouldn't handle your garter when it's under 4 months unless it's absolutely necessary. I think that before this they're too fragile and whatnot, and with my "program" it's best not to get attached. I only recently, within the past month, began handling my garters, and they don't seem to mind it. Probably because they've known me through sight, scent, and hearing since they were born.
However...
As with Tori, I too had an exception. 2 years ago, before I had my current knowledge and whatnot, I had a snake named Scooty. I used to feed him earthworms but switched to goldfish for ease of purchase. *Stupid, Stupid, STUPID!*
So, during his earthworm days, I would always take him where I went during the summer. Little places, such as Church, pet store etc. I had enough wit to select a certain time and day where I never held him, only fed him. But each time I would take him out for "activities," he would either wrap himself calmly around my hand, wrap around my glasses, or, in the extreme case, sit in one place and watch TV with me. Not even the jerkiest movement would make him flinch. So I dunno what went on there.

[Zephyr]

Could it be possible that they eventually lose their fear of humans with constant exposure? Maybe if they learn we're not a threat, they begin to associate us with the environment and not as an actual organism. :P

[Sid]

I handle mine only as needed. Moving to a feeder container, to clean the enclosures or examine their health. Simply my preference. I didn't start keeping Garter to have a lap dog, I wanted creatures that would act more like their wild counter parts. Yes, some don't mind being handled and some do. Knowing this lets me chose which to carry with me when I do an expo for a school. Kids can see and feel a Garter that doesn't mind it without causing undue stress.

[Zephyr]

Well, I guess in the most extreme case, a very tame snake would be best to take to the vet for any reason, as it would be used to handling.