Size difference between T. s. sirtalis and T. radix?

[Anthon]

Well I'll make a whole new topic :-P

So I understood that T. s. sirtalis is usually a bit taller than T. radix, right?

Well, which of those two species are normally thicker? :-D

Thanks,

Anthon

[adamanteus]

My experience with sirtalis is limited, but I've always found radix to be fairly 'heavy bodied'.

[Thamnophis]

In general you can say that sirtalis is somewhat longer, but thinner and that radix is somewhat shorter and more heavy bodied.But there are always exceptions.

[enigma200316]

I agree there are always exceptions, coming from somewhere the sirtalis is plentiful I'd say the average size one I've seen is prob. between 18 and 25 maybe 30 inches.......and normally slender......thats just what I've seen of course.....as for radix I haven't seen one in person so I can only go by pics of them, but I'd have to agree with James, and Thamnophis....

[Anthon]

Thank you

How long (and heavy?) are (female) plains garter snakes [usually and approximately] when they are about 1-2 years old? Or is there somewhere pictures of this-aged plains, I found many but don't know how old they were. :-D

I know I have a bit stupid questions, but I'd like to know this and I don't know any other place to ask it... <=)

[joeysgreen]

Size is very related to food intake and environmental temperatures. Lots of food and higher temperatures mean the snake will grow faster. Second season litters (I don't really want to call them double clutches-lacking eggs) will also consfuse the field herper because they will have stopped growth while hibernating and be out of synch. with other snakes born that year. My general estimates, for both radix and sirtalis is that if you're measuring the snake in inches, or under 20 cm, it's the young of the year. From 1-2' or 30-60cm is 1-2years, 2 more likely if it's a stout individual. 60-100cm or beyond is nearly impossible to guess but is obviously a more elderly individual.

My guestimates are indeed just that, and while based on field finds, are related to captive bred snakes as well. However I could be completely off target if you are assessing animals from a more southern climate.

Ian

[flakgunner]

hey,
with a Backyard full of western Plains ,I've found that newborns ,average 6-8 inches at birth,and at the most,may grow 1 inch,before hibernation,the following spring / summer,will see these reach 15 inches,not much more and are still fairly thin,by their second spring/summer,they'll reach,about 20 inches,and it's towards the end of the summer that they fill out alittle.
By their third summer,they start to fill out,and reach their average adult length of 24 / 26 inches,by the end of their third summer their already quite massive, after this their growth rate slows down,now it depends on food source ,are backyard is full of huge nigthcrawlers and toads,so it's not uncommon for us to see them in the range of 30 inches,this summer we had the privilege of having a couple show up hitting 36 inches,and with babies on board,their girth ,was a good 1 to 1 1/4 inches,I've never seen a true eastern come close to this in the wild.
the only other massive Gartersnake I've caught and kept,was a Chicago Gartersnake,when she was caught,she was already 36 inches long,and so heavy,she could barely move,a few weeks after this,she gave birth to 73 babies,63 where alive,and with no way to care for that many,they where released,in a heavily wooded forest preserve ,she lived another 7 years ,and was 40" when she died.

Joe