Discussing "Co-Allelic" recessives in T.Radix

[Taso]

I've been trying to absorb the theories behind the recessive traits of T.Radix. Anerythristic and Axanthic seem to be well proven as far as sharing a similar recessive spot on the DNA's and such.
However, there does exist some confusion on the genetics behind them when Snows and Blizzards come into play. Maybe it's not so confusing? Maybe I'm completely wrong?
I want to put together some writing and perhaps some silly punnett squares that are up-to-date with what we understand currently.

I found an example on human eye color that might explain how "Axanthic" and "Anery" work together. OF COURSE they're not the same, but the concept may be similar.
"In genetics lingo, we say that brown is dominant over blue and green. And that green is recessive to brown but dominant over blue. Blue is recessive to both."
Understanding Genetics

But IDK, it seems this idea goes backwards when I think about Snow VS Blizzard.

The only other idea I have is to look at examples of how fur colors in Siamese cats vary. Like black/brown dilutes with blue, white, gray, tan, blah blah blah. Perhaps understanding something along those lines might include explanations for the Black & White Axanthics.

Everything in science is a theory until a better idea comes along.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks for the overview and your take on it. The link was very helpful in the explanation of how recessive genes work. Thanks again.

[BUSHSNAKE]

I heard people say anery has to present to make blizzard. that's just a theory and has never been proven fact. when people speculate it causes confusion. its important for people to put in the work and give facts. that's what breeding morphs is all about. I think the blizzard is nothing but a double recessive based on what I know about these morphs.

[Taso]

That was basically my original thought on Blizzard... Or maybe I misunderstood you.

Snow- phenotype Albino and Anery
Blizzard- phenotype Albino, Anery, and Axanthic. -OR- phenotype Albino and Axanthic.

Is that your understanding as well?

But I have also heard people say blizzard is het for both. Typically "het" is used to describe hidden recessive genes, Technically "het" means 2 different alleles on the same gene, so both statements are true, but can cause confusion.

If I base my theory of Axan and Anery on the structure of the human eye color genotypes, then it kind of makes sense.
And it kind of doesn't at the same time.

My plans for breeding coming up might shed some light. I have a normal female, het for albino and axanthic (proven this year) and a male blizzard. I'm excited to document the results to get a better understanding.

[Jeff B]

That was basically my original thought on Blizzard... Or maybe I misunderstood you.

Snow- phenotype Albino and Anery
Blizzard- phenotype Albino, Anery, and Axanthic. -OR- phenotype Albino and Axanthic.

Is that your understanding as well?

But I have also heard people say blizzard is het for both. Typically "het" is used to describe hidden recessive genes, Technically "het" means 2 different alleles on the same gene, so both statements are true, but can cause confusion.

If I base my theory of Axan and Anery on the structure of the human eye color genotypes, then it kind of makes sense.
And it kind of doesn't at the same time.

My plans for breeding coming up might shed some light. I have a normal female, het for albino and axanthic (proven this year) and a male blizzard. I'm excited to document the results to get a better understanding.

The problem is you won't really be documenting anything because you don't really know the genotypes and lineage history of the snakes you are breeding, so you don't know what genes they might be carrying. Nobody does anymore due to the fact that the original persons that bred axanthic did not breed to wild type first and CLEARLY determine how the genetics behave with wild type for a couple generations before combining with another morph like "anery". What you really should do is breed both of your snakes to two different wild caught wild type snakes and see what you get for a couple generations worth of snakes if you want to document something.

[Taso]

Nobody does anymore due to the fact that the original persons that bred axanthic did not breed to wild type first and CLEARLY determine how the genetics behave with wild type for a couple generations before combining with another morph like "anery".

That is a very good point, and it could change everything I originally thought.

What you really should do is breed both of your snakes to two different wild caught wild type snakes and see what you get for a couple generations worth of snakes if you want to document something.

Yes, I would love to do that!

Wanted Ad: Nice pretty wild type Radix's. Females prefered, males OK too!

[BUSHSNAKE]

yeah my thoughts on the blizzard are that they are albino axanthics. and the blizzards that are around today are like you said het for anery cuz a snow was a parent and anery is recessive to axanthic not codom. hope I understood you correctly. im glad you want to get a better understanding. these morphs have been in captivity for over a decade and we and future generations should know exactly what we have. I know the guy who is the founder of both morphs and bred them and figured it out long time ago. the info he gave me is different from what I read on this forum. I don't understand how that information was never passed on. people need to know this stuff duh

[Taso]

I also have a gigantic WHAT IF...

What if the blue axanthic and anerythristic are actually hypoxanthic and axanthic? Or perhaps a morph with a "super" form?
Reason: We have seen red pigments appear in blue axanthics, so it wouldnt be anery. But, there's also a slight green hue to some blues. One of my males in particular has a very light, almost gold dorsal stripe. Another idea to explain the blue pigment could be a dark red/brown pigment covered by a thin layer of light yellow. Something like what we see in our own blood vessels appearing blue beneath the skin.

The "Black & White Axanthic" may be the true anerythristic. But I've never seen them in person.

These are just ideas, I have no data or facts to back them up.
blahblahblah. Hope my little blabberfest was entertaining.

[AntTheDestroyer]

In my opinion the black and white axanthic must be axanthic as all the wild radix I have seen have some form of yellow in them, whether it be true yellow, orange, green, or tan. It also seems to me that the animal is also anerytheristic as it is absent of any browns. An animal is either axanthic/anerytheristic or not. Just because a line produces an animal with red, by definition this animal is not anerytheristic, does not mean it is not an anerytheristic line as long as it produces some anery. You are confusing terms that are used describe a phenotype with the genes that cause it. There may be a number of allelic combinations that cause any morph.

[Taso]

You are confusing terms that are used describe a phenotype with the genes that cause it. There may be a number of allelic combinations that cause any morph.

This is true.

I need to get my hands on a DNA reader, amazon.com might have one.
Until then, all we have to judge is phenotypes and breeding results attempting to explain genotypes. That's the fun part though!