Is this a butleri or not?

[rickymar81]

Need help identifying this species of snake can you guys help? Will post better ics if needed.

Thanks S1.jpgsecuredownload-114.jpgsecuredownload-113.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Not T.butleri - Butler's Garter

I would like to do a facial scale count and a body scale count so some closer, well focused photos would be best.

[Stefan-A]

T. sirtalis sirtalis or (probably) T. sirtalis parietalis, but a T. sirtalis either way. Definitely not a T. butleri.

[rickymar81]

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[guidofatherof5]

Anything like this so a scale count can be done?

[Stefan-A]

I'll just leave this parietalis here.

[rickymar81]

I'll just leave this parietalis here.

That looks just like Rev my red sided

[Selkielass]

Head looks too elongated for a T. Butlerii.
T.Butlerii side stripes start 3-4 rows above the belly plates and are distinct. The belly scales may be tan, but the next three rows of tiny lateral scales are dark, then they abruptly change into a distinct yellow tan or whitish side stripe. No red on the neck nbutlers never have red or orange skin on the neck, easterner in Michigan almost always do.
Butlers and are also small- big gravid females are still smaller around than my finger, and all have heads smaller than the tip of my little finger. 40 to 50 grams is a good sized adult, and the ones in my area max out around 20-24 inches

[BUSHSNAKE]

looks like sirtalis sirtalis but knowing where its from is a must, where is this snake from?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

looks like sirtalis sirtalis but knowing where its from is a must, where is this snake from?

I agree with Joe! We need to know what area this snake was found in. Maybe Thamnophis elegans elegans.