Garters do produce venom

[chris-uk]

I've had a couple of nips from my garters over the last few years. One raised a pin-prick of blood, but today takes the award for most severe bite I've had.

It was one of two checkered girls that Greg took in as a rescue and I agreed to take on, she's called Esme (after a cantankerous old witch in the Discworld books). Esme is probably 2 or 3 years old, but we don't know what with her being a rescue snake. This is their third feed with me, and Esme has worked out where the food comes from, she was in full on feeding mode and decided she was going to exit the tub she was in, so I moved my hand to put her back in and she latched onto my middle finger.
I took the same approach as past bites, let her decide when she will let go. The longest anyone else has hung on has been about 5 seconds as Nobby attempted to disengage her teeth.

Esme was chewing down and drawing my finger right to the back of her mouth - bearing in mind that she was biting from the side of my middle finger about halfway down I didn't rate her chances of swallowing.

The bite wasn't what I'd call painful, but each jaw movement was like another needle being jabbed into my finger. I realised that she wasn't going to let go, so slipped my thumb nail under her top jaw as she chewed, it was a good plan because she started to let go and had nearly let go so I moved my thumb. She took another bite.

She'd been latched on for around two minutes and was actually starting to sting a little. She was still chewing when I called the wife in to help, by the time Char had brought in a bowl of cold water Esme had been chewing for nearly five minutes (Char had to laugh before helping me). The bowl of water got Esme to release, and she was popped into a rub.

So, time for the first couple of photos, one of the bite before I mopped the blood, the second after I'd wiped the blood off:





There's actually one main laceration, and three others that aren't so bad. None of them are particularly deep. The bloody wounds lacerations are on the side from the upper jaw, the lower jaw only caused a couple of pin-pricks.

It was a bit sore straight away, but I expected that. I carried on and fed her tank mate, Gytha. And then gave Esme a couple more pieces of fish and pinkie (she still deserved to eat properly today). Then I fed my big girls, so I guess it was about 10-15 minutes after the bite that I realised my finger was swelling up.

Half an hour after the bite my finger was swollen enough that I could only bend it about halfway. It's now been 3 hours and I still can't bend my finger. This picture was taken 45 minutes after the bite, and this is still about as far as I can bend it now.



As you can see, the wound itself isn't significant enough as a cut to cause swelling. So that gives us something in the saliva, namely the venom from the Duvorney Gland. There could be some argument that I've had an allergic reaction to the saliva, but there is no itchiness, no redness around the bite. It's just some localised oedema. Some soreness in the tips of my the neighbouring fingers, and a bit of aching in my hand. I did have a bit of dull headache, but I think that may not be down to the bite. I also had a funny taste in my mouth, again, I don't know if that is associated with the bite but I don't have anything else to put it down to.

I know there's been some discussion in the past as to how severe the venom is, and how bad a garter bite can be. I can attest that this bite is actually quite uncomfortable considering it was from a snake that isn't considered to have a serious bite. It's not going to kill me, and my finger isn't going to drop off.

I thought it was an account worth sharing as I've seen posts about bites, but don't remember any first-hand accounts of envenomation.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad you are OK and thank you Char for helping out.

Nice job Esme

[Sonya610]

I know there's been some discussion in the past as to how severe the venom is, and how bad a garter bite can be. I can attest that this bite is actually quite uncomfortable considering it was from a snake that isn't considered to have a serious bite. It's not going to kill me, and my finger isn't going to drop off.

I thought it was an account worth sharing as I've seen posts about bites, but don't remember any first-hand accounts of envenomation.

Could be e-coli, salmonella, mrsa....a number of things. Ever get bit by a cat? As in a deep puncture wound by a feline? Sheesh those bites are horrid and can even be fatal (as in several days in the ICU). Deep puncture cat bites are not something to take lightly.

I ain't no expert but I doubt if it is venom, I suspect it is bacteria. I also suspect if Garters had venom you would have come across it before. My flame female bites me frequently (and no I do not wait 2 minutes before getting her to stop biting me) and often I have thought "No salmonella poisoning please".

Take a Benadryl or 3 immediately and put your finger in ice water. If the swelling/infection spreads might wanna see a doc.

The swelling implies something your immune system has come across before. Allergic reactions are from at least a second occurrence, not the first.

[chris-uk]

Could be e-coli, salmonella, mrsa....a number of things. Ever get bit by a cat? As in a deep puncture wound by a feline? Sheesh those bites are horrid and can even be fatal (as in several days in the ICU). Deep puncture cat bites are not something to take lightly.

I ain't no expert but I doubt if it is venom, I suspect it is bacteria. I also suspect if Garters had venom you would have come across it before. My flame female bites me frequently (and no I do not wait 2 minutes before getting her to stop biting me) and often I have thought "No salmonella poisoning please".

Take a Benadryl or 3 immediately and put your finger in ice water. If the swelling/infection spreads might wanna see a doc.

I've been bitten by a cat a few times, some nice deep punctures. Usually I just slather the bite in antiseptic.

The swelling and stiffness in my finger is definitely not caused by a bacterial infection, bacteria doesn't do that in 10 minutes. Garters do produce venom, it's pretty well researched now, the debate I'm having with myself is how much of what I'm seeing is a direct effect of the venom and how much is an allergic reaction to the venom (or other substances) in the saliva.

I've given the bite a liberal slithering in antibiotic cream, and taken some antihistamines. If it gets worse I'll see about getting it checked - I can't imagine the conversation with my GP trying to explain it's a snake bite.

And if I get bitten by one of my snakes I think it's best to let the snake disengage themselves. Trying to remove them can result in injury, possibly me hurting their jaw and possibly dislodging a tooth which then stays embedded in the wound. If I get b8tten it's my fault, which means I suffer any pain not the biter.

[Sonya610]

I've been bitten by a cat a few times, some nice deep punctures. Usually I just slather the bite in antiseptic.

The swelling and stiffness in my finger is definitely not caused by a bacterial infection, bacteria doesn't do that in 10 minutes.

I have no idea if Garters produce venom but I can tell you swelling is an allergic reaction by your immune system that senses a danger.

You don't get swelling the first time your immune system encounters a foreign body, swelling is an auto-immune response to a perceived or known biological threat. The second time (or the 10th time) things can get dramatic.

I hope your finger is doing better. I would suspect e-coli or salmonella before I thought "garter venom".

The sudden swelling means your immune system has come across this before and is freaking out in response.

[chris-uk]

I would suspect e-coli or salmonella before I thought "garter venom".

What makes you think a bacterial infection is more likely than venom? I've been clear that the swelling came up within 10 minutes, if you know something about the microbiology of e-Coli or salmonella that can explain an instant swelling you have some more up to date information than me (it's been almost 15 years since I worked as an information officer for a food research lab and e-coli 0157 was discovered in meat products). The only microbiological cause that I can think of that may be able to explain the symptoms would be botulinum toxin, and I find the possibility that a garter snake is harbouring that in their mouth rather improbable.

So based on the knowledge that garter snakes do secrete venom in their saliva (thanks for the links Steve) I wanted to discuss whether the symptoms I'm seeing around my bite are a primary effect of the venomous compounds in the saliva or an immune response to the any of the proteins in the saliva. There is little written about garter bites, so I can see some value in sharing my experience and trying to fish out other keepers past experience of bites that have had similar symptoms.

I'm edging away from a histamine-mediated response, on the basis that:
I take antihistamines every day for hayfever and dust allergies and took a top up dose after the bite;
There is no redness around the edge of the bite marks. In my experience an allergic response to a bite (admittedly I'm basing this on insect bites) has a lot of red inflammation around the site.
The swollen finger was not warm to the touch or red. So the swelling was caused by fluid retention rather than increased blood flow.

To update on the state of my finger after 12 hours... I can bend it further than I could last night, but it's still swollen and I can't bend it all the way. There is some darkening under the skin on the side of the finger with the worst bite marks, but this could be a natural result of the swelling. The finger is itchy, this isn't a surprise as it's the only symptom I was actually expecting from the bite.

[guidofatherof5]

Duvernoy's Glands and "Warm" Herping

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Yea.... I can't tell you how many bites I have taken like this one. And yes, the swelling can be rather annoying It's just like being heavily pregnant and having swollen fingers and feet :P Actually I've seen a lot of interesting stuff coming up lately regarding them taking closer looks at the glands in "non venomous" reptiles and they are finding that being venomous and having venomous ancestors is much more common that previously thought.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for this link Steve Schmidt.

Duvernoy’s Gland Secretions in Colubrid Snakes « Bugs In The News

[Natrix]

Chris, Interesting read and relevant to our conversation on this very subject the day we went to pick the snakes up from Greg. I have yet to experience the full onslaught of the furious flame but I am sure she will not disappoint. Bowl of water will be at the ready Given the relatively small bite force used, I am inclined to agree that, it is very likely that the immediate cause of the swelling is indeed the effect of the venom at the site of entry. There is no other logical explanation. Hope things settle down soon