Swallowing Substrate

[Sonya610]

Okay, after a drama free snake year the drama is piling on heavy as of late. Had to split them up (accidental breeding) and got a fresh delivery of frozen pinkies tonight. Decided for the first time the male (well they WERE both males until a few days ago) could eat off a plate (instead of in a glass fishbowl).

He grabs a mouthful of pinky pieces and starts thrashing in the aspen shavings (yes he is a thrasher, but in a glass fish bowl it wasn't a problem). Suddenly he has a ton of substrate sticking to the pinkie pieces and I open the cage and grab him to fix the situation and he swallows (wells tries to swallow, took him over 2 minutes of fussing with a big lump in his throat).

Lordy how much substrate can a 1 year old garter digest before this is a fatal problem? (From now on he either goes back in the glass fish bowl or eats on a ton of paper).

PS he ate a few more mouthfuls of pinky after the substrate issue and now seems to be breathing heavily, or maybe he isn't and I am just freaking out a bit and imagining things here.

[thamneil]

If he was able to swallow it, I am more then willing to bet that he will be able to pass it. Aspen becomes relatively softer after absorbing water and the snakes mucus will lubricate it. I wouldnt be too worried but it is definately something to keep an eye on. Just try to keep it from happening in the future and consider it a mistake that you can learn from.

[Sonya610]

If he was able to swallow it, I am more then willing to bet that he will be able to pass it. Aspen becomes relatively softer after absorbing water and the snakes mucus will lubricate it. I wouldnt be too worried but it is definately something to keep an eye on. Just try to keep it from happening in the future and consider it a mistake that you can learn from.

Yeah that was the first and last time for sure. I was horrified thinking I just killed my little flame! I think I will feed him some more (in his fishbowl...just ordered a critter keeper too). He seems fine and very active, though I have no idea how long it would take for problems to show up, i would think if it ruptured his esophagus he probably wouldn't be acting so normal and so hungry.

Thanks for the reassuring words, there is nothing I can do about this so there is no point in stressing out.

[kibakiba]

Any amount of substrate can become fatal. if the aspen has shard like edges, it can injure him and stick through his stomach.

[EasternGirl]

You have to make sure that he cannot do that again. You could try to take him out of the tank and get a separate feed tank lined with paper towels to move him into when he eats. If you can't do that...cover all of the substrate with paper towels before feeding him and supervise him closely to make sure he doesn't drag the food off of the paper towels and into the substrate. Aspen can be very dangerous when swallowed. You need to watch him closely over the next few days...make sure he is pooping normally...watch for any signs of distress...a swollen vent, vomiting, etc. I hope everything turns out okay! Keep us posted. I just saw that you ordered a critter keeper...good thinking...I use those for feed tanks too.

Edit: Do you have a exotic or herp vet to take him too if he should run into serious problems?

[Sonya610]

You have to make sure that he cannot do that again. You could try to take him out of the tank and get a separate feed tank lined with paper towels to move him into when he eats. If you can't do that...cover all of the substrate with paper towels before feeding him and supervise him closely to make sure he doesn't drag the food off of the paper towels and into the substrate. Aspen can be very dangerous when swallowed. You need to watch him closely over the next few days...make sure he is pooping normally...watch for any signs of distress...a swollen vent, vomiting, etc. I hope everything turns out okay! Keep us posted. I just saw that you ordered a critter keeper...good thinking...I use those for feed tanks too.

Edit: Do you have a exotic or herp vet to take him too if he should run into serious problems?

He won't do it again! He has been fed in a separate glass container for the last year because he was sharing his enclosure, since he has his own cage now I put the food on a plate instead (which is how the other eats, inside the cage with a plate). As far as herp vets, there are only 2 vets in town and one was probably the only herp vet in Middle Georgia, she recently got diagnosed with cancer and sold her practice (though honestly I went in for a consult when one of my dogs was struggling with a tick borne disease that was hard to diagnose and that vet was crazy). Kind of ironic -- she told me I should not spend $60 testing my 3 yr old dog for more tick born diseases because "the dog is going to die anyway from the undiagnosed disease, why waste money on tests?". Now she has cancer and I hear she can't afford the tests to see if she will need chemo, I thought to myself "but why should she waste thousands on tests if she is going to die anyway?". PS Dog was diagnosed by another vet and is fine now.

Otherwise I drive two hours north to Atlanta, realistically this is a small little guy, a little over a year old, if he had a blockage could they do surgery to remove it? I mean successful surgery and not a hack job that leads to $700 vet bill and a deceased snake?

[EasternGirl]

Most likely...they wouldn't do surgery. From what I have read and heard...they would probably flush his system with an enema...if he has internal damage...I'm not sure what can be done. But don't panic yet...I have had snakes ingest substrate and pass it. Just make sure if you are putting the dish in his tank, you put paper towels down to cover the aspen and put the dish on top...and supervise closely. Watch him closely for a few days and take him to the vet in Atlanta if he shows serious signs of distress.

[Sonya610]

Most likely...they wouldn't do surgery. From what I have read and heard...they would probably flush his system with an enema...if he has internal damage...I'm not sure what can be done.

Flushing his system sounds much better than surgery, somehow I would be very skeptical about their ability to do surgery on a snake this small. I know with dogs if they eat glass people feed them bread or other fiberous foods to coat the glass shards, if anyone has heard of something similar for snakes please mention it.

I am going to feed him a moderate meal now, he ate some after the substrate incident but I cut his meal short. He won't eat in his cage anymore, he is going to keep going into a separate container.

[Sonya610]

Oh also bought a new substrate, I am not sure I want to stick with Aspen. Seeing how I just ordered a georgious albino flame female from Tom I had to hit amazon for a couple of items for the cage (which always turns into way more than a couple) and this substrate was recommended as softer on their bellies... Kritters Crumble Coconut Fiber (but not in a block that has to be soaked, that is such a pain, loose in a bag)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

[d_virginiana]

Maybe feeding all worms until the 'danger period' is over might help? They have probably the highest water content of any garter food, and that might help things move along more quickly. idk. At least it couldn't hurt anything.

I used aspen shavings for about five days before getting paranoid that mine were going to drag their food into it and switching it out.