Meds ...

[mikm]

hello all ... not sure if this thread belongs here or not but here goes ... I think it would be helpful to have some type of category on this board for the various illnesses we have encountered and more importantly what MEDS we used to treat the illness, how we dispensed the meds and the outcome. While this is ongoing I'm certainly learning more then I will retain long term. I imagine such a forum might be difficult to manage ... Please remeber all of these animals are still feeding very well, on their own ...

MOUTH ROT_
Products such as hydrogen peroxide, and mouthwash, have been recommended for stomatitis. The problem is that these products are cytotoxic - they destroy the good tissue along with the bad. What is called for is a product which has antibacterial properties but which is gentle on healthy tissue. Vets will use a product called Novasolon (chlorhexidine diacetate) (available by mail order from animal suppliers, or from feed and grain stores, it is great to have on hand as a disinfectant; the stuff is expensive ($36/gal or about $10/qt) but you dilute it in water) or Betadine (povidone-iodine), available at drug and grocery stores, it is great to have on hand as an antibacterial for cuts and scratches).

DOSAGE : Swab the affected area inside of the snakes mouth, roof & gums with a 1% solution of either of the aforementioned. The swabbing may result in the mouth bleeding depending upon how advanced the infection is. I follow this up by coating the inside of the mouth with some fresh aloe from the leaf of a live aloe plant. The healing properties and pain relief from aloe are well known. Not only does the aloe soothe, it seals in the Povidone I have just applied. Hopefully this help keep the Povidone in the affected area of the mouth and decreases the amount of any iodine that may inadvertanly be swallowed. The aloe can be safely injested by the snake or anyone for that matter !

HEAT : For this condition stomatitis (mouth rot) it is widely suggested that you raise the temps in your enclosure immediately. I suspect this is to help the infection in the mouth *dry out*. I raised the temps from low 80's to very high 80's (close to 90), day & night, 24x7.

notes on heat : The worse of the isolated animals is being heated with an red heat lamp. Her very first day in the snake ICU, she held her head (mouth first, chin up) to the heat/light ALL DAY ! I became a little nervous as these animals are now warmer to the touch then I am familiar with, however my observations indicate that they do seem quite content to be literally *bathing* in the increased heat/temps.

notes on meds : Novasolon may also be purchased as the generic chlorhexidine, from the internet for about $10 less then the brand name. You can also find the Betadine generic equvilant Povidone, at most drugstores .

[Cazador]

Several months ago, Jason (Boots) mentioned starting a "reference section" with care sheets and other things. I think you might have just submitted the first one, Marian. Good job, but I'm surprised to hear that your vet recommended 1% betadine. Is that correct? Seems very low. A link to the source of the meds at these prices would be helpful.

I'd add that the elevated temperature that was recommended stimulates an ectotherm's immune system (as well as its metabolic rate) to help in fighting off ailments. Raising the temperature is the first step one takes when a snake shows pretty much any sign of illness, but it shouldn't be raised much over 90F during the hottest part of the day. If it gets up around 92F, it's probably best to lower the temp. Remember that temps normally fluctuate within a room during the day and night.

The other thing one does with stomatitis is to change the water daily, and wash/disinfect the water bowl daily.

[KITKAT]

Does anyone know whether clindamycin has ever been used for stomatitis? That is its use in mammals, and it often works wonders.

[mikm]

hey KITKAT ... YES, it can ! I stumbled upon clindamycin while researching but did not have time to include it in my original post. That's what I'm talking about, thank you for suggesting/looking at *new* stuff. If I go to an *exotic* Vet I expect more then the usual/common prescription of Flagyl &/or Panacur. However it's been my experience (with reptiles) that it's in your own best interest to have an understanding of the illness & treatment before your vet visit ... I am having very good results thus far with Baytril however had I known of clindamycin at the time, I might have gone with that ...

thanks again, and enjoy your day !
marian

[mikm]

hello Rick ... I am using the Povidone Iodine (Benatine) full strength which is 10%. Nolvasan (chlorhexidine diacetate) when used in this manner calls for a 1% concentration. I would have chosen Nolvasan, however I am out of it. Since iodine was easily available locally and is commonly used as a skin disinfectant, I went with that. Thank you for adding your comments concerning my post and questioning anything that looks amiss ...

best wishes,
marian

[Cazador]

Hi Marian,

There are plenty of other over-the-counter meds that also work against common parasites, but each have unique problems and aren't generally considered the drugs of choice. Sulfadimethoxine (Albon) works well, but it's not discussed often because coccidia have indirect life cycles and aren't often at pathological levels. Ivermectin treats worms, but the doseage is VERY small, and it has a narrow margin of safety. Enrofloxin, Amikacin, Chloramphenicol, Clindamycin, Gentocin, and others work well for different types of bacteria, but you need a prescription to get them. I'm sure this is for the best, given the opportunity to make "resistant" strains with improper administration.

The beautiful thing about Flagyl, Panacur, and Praziquantel is that they're very effective, can be given orally, have a wide margin of safety, and don't require a prescription. Flagyl even has anti-bacterial properties, though antibiotics have to be chosen to match the type of bacteria being treated. Moreover, using these drugs to remove common pathogens that tax the immune system can often allow the immune system to take care of other types of problems that it couldn't before, including many viruses. These may be repetative and boring, they've become the drugs of choice because they're so effective and easily available.

I agree that one would expect quicker acting drugs from a vet, but one doesn't always want to have to pay those large fees to treat common, recognizable problems. I'm of the mindset that any snake that is suspected of being wild caught should be treated for the most common pathogens with Flagyl & Panacur while in quarantine as a preventative measure. Any specific problems that arise, including tapeworms, should be given priority treatment.

Rick

[mikm]

... rock solid advice Rick thanks so much for taking the time to write it up ! I would think that a thoro *cleansing* for WC's is a must but one surely does not expect such *issues* from CB. Parasitic worm problems in general seem straightforward enough to treat given the availability of specific and *general* de-wormers denoted for mammals. The bacterial infection I was not so comfortable with. Since I made the commitment to $ee a Vet I felt it to be in my own best interest to choose a broad spectrum antibiotic that I was reasonably at ease with. I found it pleasant and reassuring to discuss and have the Vet concurr.

best wishes ...
marian

[Cazador]

This discussion has been thought provoking and productive, Marian. Thanks for keeping it going . It might be surprising to learn that even live worms (like nightcrawlers) carry roundworms, but sometimes they're almost essential to use to get newborn snakes to feed or to get problem feeders motivated. Freezing fish for at least three days kills most pathogens, but not all. There are a lot of ways that captive snakes can acquire parasites, even with very strict husbandry techniques. Yet, most snakes survive quite well with low level infestations. They don't become a problem until the snake gets stressed or sick from other reasons.

Rick