anytime girls!!!

[otis lee]

wc albino eastern garter.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/otis1976/garters/march07078.jpg[/IMG]
het albino checkered .her 2nd year!hetXhet.

[otis lee]

albino checkered garter.this is her 3rd year!!albinoXhet

[Stefan-A]

This is so exciting.

Is that how you normally house them, or is that just where you keep them where they are about to give birth?

[adamanteus]

Looks like you're going to be another one with millions of babies soon! Congratulations.

[Snaky]

Be sure to post some picture's of the outcome
Good luck with it

[otis lee]

i put them in this to bring them in the house.i do keep a male/babys in them sometimes.they clean fast and i can see in them great.i have a metal stand that holds 6 20gallon long tanks for pairs and trio's.i also like the half tall 10 gallon tanks too.
the albino Xered had 8 1st year,7 the next and i think she will have like 10 this year.i candle light the albinos like you would a egg.
do any of you that breed the albino Xereds have albino's that dont start out as the better feeders.they seem to take a little longer to get started. i have only breed hetXalbino to make albinos.

[otis lee]

the eastern had them at 4 o'clock today!no albinos.
2 or 3 slugs
1 very sm. that opened its mouth a few times but did not move or breath.
the last 1 was dead probly from the pushing.
1 with a sm kink on neck and a sm. left eye.
aaaannnndddd
13 perfect baby hets!!!!some ate worms 2 hours after birth!!!

[abcat1993]

Wow, congrats. What are the chances of not having any albinos with a het (proven?) and an albino?

[KITKAT]

Wow, congrats. What are the chances of not having any albinos with a het (proven?) and an albino?

The genetic symbol for albino is c, and non-albino is C.

Cc is a het

cc is an albino

Cc x cc = 50% (chance of) Cc and 50% (chance of) cc

HOWEVER... I have a current theory that perhaps some of the garters that are identified as albinos, are not albinos. Bear with me...

Scott Felzer, for example, has two strains of "albino". Yet, when one strain is bred to the other, non-albinos are produced.

I assume he has identified his two strains as albino because they have red/pink eyes, as well as lighter body color. However, there is another gene that can make red eyes in some animals (such as mice). This gene is called "Dilute".

In a dilute mouse, the eyes are red, and the coat color is lighter than normal, but the mouse is not white.

Dilute is notated d and non-dilute is notated D.

If a dilute garter exists, and were bred to a non-dilute, the results would be like this:

DD x dd = 100% chance Dd (hets).

However, if a dilute (non-albino) were bred to an albino (non-dilute), the results could look like this:

ccDD x CCdd = CcDd 100% chance

And since only the capitalized letter (dominant trait) is visible in the young, all babies would appear to be "normal", but would all be double het.

(Which is what I suspect is happening to Felzer's two "albino" strains, when bred to each other).

Of course, since ODNR thinks I should not be allowed to ever own a plains garter, even though the source is provable as non-Ohio... I guess I'll never get to experiment to see if I can prove my theory!

[cornsnakesalive]

HOWEVER... I have a current theory that perhaps some of the garters that are identified as albinos, are not albinos. Bear with me...

Scott Felzer, for example, has two strains of "albino". Yet, when one strain is bred to the other, non-albinos are produced.

I assume he has identified his two strains as albino because they have red/pink eyes, as well as lighter body color. However, there is another gene that can make red eyes in some animals (such as mice). This gene is called "Dilute".

(Which is what I suspect is happening to Felzer's two "albino" strains, when bred to each other).

Of course, since ODNR thinks I should not be allowed to ever own a plains garter, even though the source is provable as non-Ohio... I guess I'll never get to experiment to see if I can prove my theory!

Hello Thamnophis.com,
I just began looking into Garter morphs due to a Den I found on my property. I also breed Corn Snake Morphs, and we have proven 15 mutant genes at this time, so the genetics of Garters interest me. Much of what we have learned about Corn Snake genes, can be applied to Garters as well.

I found it odd that nobody I emailed had any knowledge of any test breedings between the different lines of Albinos, not even Felzer. I have a different opinion about the reason for the lack of Amels in the litter. It is extremely possible that two different non-compatible lines of Amels were opposite each other. Are any of the Amel Garters compatible, or are they all non-combatable. How about a Schuett and Amel Eastern, which I believe this breeding may be a mix of. Are the Schuett’s compatible with the Amel Easterns. If no test have been done, it could certainly go either way, unless the history of the lines is tied somehow.

In Boas, two different Amel lines have proven to be non-combatable, but both are amels. A Sharp Strain Albino Boa X Kahl Albino Boa breeding will result in Normals het for both Albino genes. In Corns we now have six non-compatible hypos. That is right six, and we have proven them out with test breedings. Breed any two of the six together, even though they are of a hypo phenotype, and you will produce NORMALS.

Another possibility with this litter are poor odds. I once produced 10 Amels out of 11 eggs that hatched from a Het Amel X Same breeding. It is certainly possible to produced 11 Normals out of a Het X Same breeding as well.

Some very interesting eye colors have been popping up in double and triple homo Corns. Eye colors that can be mistaken for Amels eyes, ruby eyes, blue eyes, yellow eyes and so forth. Some double stacked hypo genes have ruby eyes as well, but even the most extreme of the hypos eyes can not be mistaken for an Amels.

I think you guys need to start an Amel Test Breeding Project like we did with the hypos. Our Hypo Test Breeding Project took us from two proven hypos to six in two years. All we had to do, is ship different types of hypos to others that could do testing. Through cooperative efforts, most testing was done in the first year. The only difference I see is that most of the different Amel locals in Garters are also different subspecies, so it may not be knowledge that everybody believes is needed.

How do you know, that some of the Albino Garter snake subspecies genes, are not he result of “Basement Breeders“? Almost all Amel Gophers, and Amel Kings are a result of hybridization. This was done many years ago, when morphs came flying at us almost every year. There are certainly different non-combatable lines of some Amel Kings, but most were created in the 80’s. Amel California King Snakes have two different lines of non-compatible Amel genes, so the compatibility or non-compatibility of any Amel gene in Garters, will not necessarily prove if they are hybrids or not, but it will help to make sure the different lines are kept separate for breeding purposes. Amel Corns and Amel Nelsons are compatible, but they were not the result of hybridization. The probably just had a common ancestor several thousands of year ago.

I really don’t know anything about the origins of the different lines of Amels in Garters, and most have a wild caught story. It is certainly very possible for many wild caught lines of Amels to be discovered due to their breeding habits, but how sound are the wild caught stories. Are they from first hand knowledge that has been passed down. Who were the first to produce a certain Amel subspecies anyway? If you can not answer that question, we really don’t know do we.

Wouldn’t a Garter Snake Registry be NICE!