de-worming ???

[mikm]

I may have spoken a little too soon unfortunately ... one of my Pugets seemed a little *odd* yesterday morning. Almost like she was trying to start a shed, rubbing the side of her head only she had not been *blue*. Lucky for me this was pretty obvious as the other two were in shed. I watched her for a moment and she appeared to me to be *drooling* holding her mouth ever so slightly agape. I took her out to get a better look ... I could find nothing overly apparent that was causing her discomfort. The inside color of her looked good perhaps slightly darker pink but nothing else ... no sores, scrapes, etc. The saliva from the side of her mouth was sticky but appeared to me to be saliva. I felt strongly that she was trying to vomit but I was not totally sure as I considered that maybe I was applying a mammalian trait to a reptile. I mean I know/have seen snakes regurg but ... Anyway, I put her in a rubbermaid container w/some paper towels for the day. When I returned from work she looked fine and she had deposited something . Not sure which end *it* came out of but it sure looked different to me however there wasn't any terrible odor as with a food regurg ... I spread *it* out some to investigate and snapped some pics. Looks like worms to me and more then one kind ??? I am very hands on in regards to any animals health issues. I have found stuff on the net in regards to this issue as it's new to me however I want a trusted source ...

So my question(s) ...

_What kind of worms might they be ??

_What is the recommended treatment for these in regards to Garters ??

I do intend to de-worm all of the Pugets. Outwardly they all appear 100% healthy and active. I would hate to lose any of these as when I had this girl out her blue is quite stunning ... her belly is such a beautiful, deep blue as well ... I'll have to take more detailed pics ...

thank you all very much for any info you choose to share !!!
marian

[suzoo]

Looks like tapeworm to me, I would use Praziquantel. It is dosed by weight, so personally I would take her to the Vet, have her weighed, and dosed there. Take the worms with. They usually like that I am not an expert though, just 1 opinion. Hope I helped.

[mikm]

thank you very much ... I did not keep the worms unfortunatley but I'm sure I can get more ...

[Beautifylgirl]

Looks like tapeworm to me, I would use Praziquantel. It is dosed by weight, so personally I would take her to the Vet, have her weighed, and dosed there. Take the worms with. They usually like that I am not an expert though, just 1 opinion. Hope I helped.

Yup those are tapeworms.. gross little buggers.

Question though. I do work at a vet and tapeworms (per my information) are normally contracted due to fleas(injesting) or eating rodents (fleas on the rodents). The fleas carry the tapeworm egg ( as far as I know) on their body. Exactly how would a snake come in contact with tapeworms.
Would they be in an enviornment that has fleas and they accidently injested one or ??
I'm just curious.

Brittany

[mikm]

hello Brittany and thank you very much for your post ... no, absolutely no fleas at my place ... you bring up a very interesting point though ... Are tapeworms a common parasite for WC Garters ??

Many years ago I de-wormed a young cat and was forewarned by the vet on what to expect when he passed the mama' motherload tapeworm ... I do not remember which *end* the mama came out but I had the cat in the bathtub when he lost it. Out of curiousity I rinsed it off to check it out more closely. It did look like something out of a horror movie.

I recall the little *white rice* looking tapeworm babies that were passed in the cats poop. I assume the garters would be passing them as well ??

[KITKAT]

Yup those are tapeworms.. gross little buggers.

Question though. I do work at a vet and tapeworms (per my information) are normally contracted due to fleas(injesting) or eating rodents (fleas on the rodents). The fleas carry the tapeworm egg ( as far as I know) on their body. Exactly how would a snake come in contact with tapeworms.
Would they be in an enviornment that has fleas and they accidently injested one or ??
I'm just curious.

Brittany

I don't know the answer to Brittany's question, but this discussion does make me wonder if snake mites can carry tapeworms...

[GarterGuy]

I don't know the answer to Brittany's question, but this discussion does make me wonder if snake mites can carry tapeworms...

Hmmmmm.....you know I've never heard that before, but since I know fleas can carry tapeworms to dogs and cats (as has been stated above), it makes me wonder? I've only ever heard of tapeworms being introduced to snakes through infected prey????

[Beautifylgirl]

About which end *it* came out of. Cat's and Dogs normally pass these in the feces or around the anal area. I'm not sure about Snakes. Does anyone know??

[Cazador]

Hi Marian,
Roy is right about the praziquantel being used for tapeworms, and you've got a nasty case of tapeworms, for sure! I don't know about the flea connection, but they're commonly contracted when snakes eat infested mammals. You've probably got a wild-caught snake in your possession, as somebody suggested earlier. PLEASE contact "Bob," and let him know that your snake has tapeworms. Send the picture, if you choose, but please contact him. He's either untintentionally or negligently selling "problem" animals, and he keeps telling everybody that it's an isolated incident. I think he deserves to know that these aren't "isolated" instances. Maybe it will help to convince him to treat his snakes (for their sakes and for the sake of his customers).

Now, I don't have my reference books with me, but I'll give you more info when I get home, tonight. If you can, weigh your snakes. They have to be weighed at around 0.1 oz or less, if possible, in order to calculate a proper doseage.

I really don't like the look of the mouth/gums in that picture, either. I'd bet my last nickel that your snake is also developing mouth rot (infectious stomatitis). This swelling of the gums that parts the lips, along with the thick exudate (like saliva) represent the early stages of the disorder. If it progresses, the thick exudate will become hardened, like cheese, and start to seal the mouth shut. It often leads to pneumonia, as well, so the situation is very serious. Infectious stomatitis is also very infectious, so all of your snakes should probably be separated... quarantined from each other. The early, mild stages can be treated at home, but I suspect they've got more problems than just these. Therefore, a vet visit might be prudent anyway. That's what I'm recommending. You'll have to take a fresh fecal sample with you, so the vet can do a fecal float and some microscopy work.

Finally, be sure to wash your hands thoroughly. I use betadine when dealing with pathogens, but if you don't have any available, use antibiotic soap; then a mild bleach solution; then soap again. You don't want to ingest any tapeworm eggs and become a host, yourself.

If you decide to treat them at home, please post the weights for all of your snakes. Since they've been housed together, they should be all be treated.

Rick

[mikm]

thanks VERY much to all ... that mouth pic is not an accurate representation of her mouth color ... I snapped the pic in very poor light w/a flash, & she was super stressed out at being restrained in the sink !She has never held her mouth agape in that fashion before or since then ...

_I have seen mouth rot (but not on a garter) and I believe her mouth is okay and much the same color as any garter. The pic was supposed to represent the mouth gape as I witnessed it. I surely will check all of their mouths more closely this weekend though, thanks !!

_By treating *all* you mean the Pugets right ??? The Reds are not housed or physically connected to the Pugets in any way ... all garters have their own, individual feeding rubbermaid containers ...

I'm fairly well versed in animal medical issues in general just not so much reptiles and if you narrow that select interest down to garters ... you guys are great to share all of your experience !!!

much thanks,
marian