Scale rot?

[ThamGirl]

I noticed some brown, dry areas on one of my females cyrtopsis a couple days ago. I though it was just some dust under the edge of the scales or something, but it has gotten worse, and now one of my males is showing symptoms of the same thing, but under his jaw. Both of them only show it on their vent side, and it doesn't seem to be restricted to one scale at a time, but goes right through some scales. It is a mid to dark brown, with no swelling, pinkness, or other signs of irritation. It has a crusty look, but I don't want to try to scrape anything off. They aren't rubbing or itching, but they have not yet shed since it appeared.

To give some background info- they are on a coconut blend substrate with some moss. All the plants in their enclosure are fake. I sanitize everything before adding it to the tank. I haven't had the tank set up long enough to have a cleaning regiment to discuss. Before this tank they were in a temp hold tank with a hide, water bowl, and paper towel. They are eating feeder guppies (though neither of the infected ones ate last feeding) about once every 5 days, as well as the occasional worm when I can convince them to eat it. They don't spend an excessive amount of time in the water, and are very good about basking. They have a lamp as well as ambient light, and the temp in their tank ranges from 72 in the cool side to 87 in the warm (they are Arizona natives and get cranky if I drop the temps any). Temp drops to about 75 all around at night.

I've quarantined the female and will be quarantining the male as soon as I get a new set up for him (I only have one quarantine tank). It really doesn't look like normal scale rot- anyone have any ideas? Sorry about the bad picture- phone's aren't really great for this kinda thing. I don't want to stress her too much, but I'll see about a better picture later tonight.
My other female and male are perfectly health and don't show any symptoms.


scale issues.jpg

[paulh]

Seems like a form of scale rot that I have sometimes seen. I'd get rid of the coconut and moss substrate and replace it with newspaper or some other paper product. I would take the affected snakes outside and expose the affected areas to direct sunlight for around 5 minutes daily, before the heat gets over 90 degrees Fahrenheit. The UV light is good for killing off that sort of thing, and window glass filters the UV out of sunlight. I would also apply Betadine first aid cream to the affected areas daily, after the sunlight treatment. Betadine is a first aid cream available at many drugsores. It is also a liquid preparation, but I like the cream better. The problem should shed off, but I would keep on with the sunlight and Betadine for 2-3 days after the shed. Sometimes the problem comes back if treatment is discontinued at shedding. If the problem comes back, start the treatment again. Good luck.

[d_virginiana]

I'd say quarantine both as soon as possible. As Paul said, switch them to a low-dust substrate like newspaper. Whenever I have small infections or injuries, I always just apply some liquid betadine to the area. Neosporin withOUT painkiller also works well to prevent infection and reduce spread of the infection.
Can you get a picture of the area on the male's head? I have limited experience with scale-rot, but what I've seen has looked more like a typical bacterial infection; kind of wet looking, a tiny bit puffy, ect.
If you feel nervous taking them outside (I know I have a couple 'darters' that would be a big escape risk if I tried to take them outdoors!) a UVB lamp will give the same sort of radiation as sunlight.

[ThamGirl]

They are both quarantined now- like I said, I put the female in the tank as soon as I could. I've put the male in with her until I can get another enclosure for him. I'll try to get better pictures of both the female, and the male tonight. The male also has it around his cloaca. I've sunned and treated both of them, so we'll see how it goes.

[d_virginiana]

I can't really tell by the first picture, but the way you described it as crusty looking, no swelling, ect. makes it sound almost like some fungal infections that I've seen. Also, the fact that it's apparently on the underside of the male's head. That's not an area that you'd normally expect to see scale rot since the chin area is held off the ground more often than the rest of the body.

[ThamGirl]

That was the one that really threw me off- if it had just been belly, I would have just figured it as some odd form of rot.
I will say, the humidity is very low in their tank (and my house in general.) It's hard to keep the humidity up in the middle of an AZ summer. I'm hoping that means that it isn't fungal...

[d_virginiana]

That was the one that really threw me off- if it had just been belly, I would have just figured it as some odd form of rot.
I will say, the humidity is very low in their tank (and my house in general.) It's hard to keep the humidity up in the middle of an AZ summer. I'm hoping that means that it isn't fungal...

Again, I can't tell based on the pic, so hopefully someone with a little more experience dealing with both will chime in. But high humidity is a big cause of scale rot, which is a bacterial infection. The bacteria thrive in wet environments. The fact that you have two snakes coming down with this in a very dry environment just doesn't seem typical of a bacterial issue...

If I were you, I'd take any snakes that had been housed with these two and find a temporary place to house them in 'quarantine'. Maybe just long enough to make sure it doesn't pop up on them, but since whatever this is seems to have spread from one snake to another I think it's safe to assume that it's either contagious, or is spreading around the cage environment. Also, I would do a complete break-down of the tank these two were housed in and 'nuke' it. Basically wash everything in bleach solution (I actually toss non-expensive decor in cases like this rather than take the risk).

How long between seeing this on the female's belly and noticing it on the male?

Depending on how aggressive a fungus is, a vet visit is sometimes necessary (based on more extreme cases I've seen before) but keep putting betadine on it. I've successfully dealt with fungal infections in fish using betadine. It's kind of a cure-all for weird things that show up on small animals.

[guidofatherof5]

I can't tell what's going on from the photo. Any chance for a closer photo?
When did these snakes shed last? In any event, a weak tea looking solution of betadine (povidone-iodine) and water certainly can't hurt this situation.
I have a feeling this is going to look much better after the next shed.
Keep us posted, please.

[ThamGirl]

Three weeks since the last shed- and I'm working on a closer picture. They are not being very cooperative, and camera phones suck for this kind of thing. I'll keep everyone posted on their progress, however.

[ThamGirl]

Here's the best I could get them to do. Sorry it's blurry- they were NOT happy about me rolling them over.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot2.png
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot1.png
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/...hpole/rot3.png