A question about T. gigas

[Mexicofan]

Hello,

why no one is keeping and breeding Thamnophis gigas? Are they protected by law???

Who can tell me more?

[Stefan-A]

Endangered, no individuals on the market, too late to start collecting.

[ssssnakeluvr]

yes, protected by law and endangered

[Tendriana]

From my understanding they are "Threatened," but not yet endangered.

I live in Roseville, CA (Near sacramento) and recently found what I think is a T. gigas in my yard. Coloring-wise, it looks like a T. gigas, T. elegans elegans, or T. atratus zaxanthus. However, elegans' range is more mountains, and zaxanthus is closer to the coast. It is a juvenile, only about a foot long, and a little thicker than a pencil. I didn't know whether or not to leave him alone, but when I went inside and read that T. gigas are threatened, I felt uncomfortable leaving him out in our yard, which is large (1.5 acre) and very exposed/open. We are starting to have frost-nights here in Sacramento, and leaving him exposed to the weather made me feel uncomfortable, not to mention the copious hawks and predators in our area (not to mention our 3 indoor/outdoor cats). The pervasive tree-frogs that are around in the summer have disappeared, and there is no standing water nearby to supply him with tadpole/amphibian/fish meals. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised to have found him, and wondering now if he's learned to eat slugs or something like that.

We originally found him 10/19/10, hiding under a pot. I went inside to research what snake it was, and when I came back, he was gone. On 10/31/10 my dog ran out side and started woofing around our patio - and I saw the snake again sitting out on the concrete. This time I picked him up (He was mildly vexed, but didn't try to bite, nor released anything from his glands.) I brought him inside, put him in a 10 gal terrarium for now. I am planning to keep him over the winter, to give him a chance to grow. When he's grown a bit, and the temps warm up outside, I plan to release him. Currently in the 10 gal, I have a heating mat under one side, newspaper pellets as bedding, and a water bowl. I threw in some paper towels and a cardboard tube for hiding. Within a few minutes he had crawled under a towel on the warm side of the cage, and seemed content. This morning the small water bowl was pretty much drained, so I'm assuming he was drinking alot, or maybe the paper towels managed to soak some up. Tonight I'm going to stop by the petstore, pick up nightcrawlers and some minnows. Hopefully he will take to eating these, though I'm also willing to try the homemade frozen mix recipe I found online. Willing to do pinkies at some point - but right now he's just too small, and I'm squeamish about cutting up pinkie parts (I know, I'm a wimp, forgive me.)

My concern - being a threatened species, am I doing the right thing? I'm assuming there's some sort of legal prohibition against keeping threatened species - does anyone know what this would be? Again, I don't plan to breed/sell him (or her), and I don't plan on keeping him in captivity forever... Just want to give him a fighting chance for next year.

Also - although I'm PRETTY sure he's T. gigas, based on coloring and location, there's a small chance he's T. elegans elegans/ Mountain Garter Snake, as I've read there's a small population in Sacramento. Anyone know how to tell the juveniles apart? Obviously a full grown T. gigas will be MUCH bigger than an adult Mountain GS, but as this guy is very young, it's hard to tell. Gonna try to get a close pic of him tonight, to try to count labial scales.

Any advice will be much appreciated! If it seems like I can't get him to eat, and I'm worried about his survival, I plan to take him to Sacramento Zoo - they have a T.gigas there, and supposedly work with Fish and Wildlife to monitor these guys.

One decent pic of him: http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_1824.jpg

Another from the front: http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/IMG_1793.jpg

I sure need a better zoom camera.

Thanks!

[Stefan-A]

As usual, my recommendation would have been: Don't intervene.

[mustang]

lucky! i want to see one!

[Tendriana]

Stefan - You are probably right.


Robert - I posted two links to the only photos I've taken so far - I will post more as I take them! Again, I'm not 100% positive it's T. gigas.... just prettyi sure.

[Tendriana]

Came home tonight and checked in on my new buddy. He's VERY active, constantly tasting the air, and really not a fan of me getting my hands close to him. I managed to snap a few more pictures, and now I'm seriously wondering if it actually is a T. gigas... looking at his upper labial scales, #6 and #7 look Enlarged, and very similar in size. More like a T. elegans elegans. From what I read online, T. gigas tend to have a smaller #6 than #7. If he is an e.elegans/Mountain Garter... he's pretty low in elevation for his species, which are usually more in the Sierras. However, I did read that there is a small population in Sac.

Anyone else want to take a look at these pics and help me identify? His lateral stripes are there, but blend in very well to his pale yellowy-grey belly - no dark break between the laterals and belly.

[mustang]

Stefan - You are probably right.


Robert - I posted two links to the only photos I've taken so far - I will post more as I take them! Again, I'm not 100% positive it's T. gigas.... just prettyi sure.

i ment in person

[Tendriana]

Ahh, got it!

Well, looks strongly that maybe the only one I've seen was at the zoo....