Help Identifying These?

[DMilms]

Hello,
i had a few quick questions about my Garter snake. it is hopefully a she, and she is about 8 months old. she is a bit over a foot long, and weighs about 6g. lately she has been off feed for a month, but over the past two weeks ate a pinky each week. recently i have noticed that she has had a few dark spots on her belly, and a dark ring around her vent. i was wondering if somebody would be able to help me identify what those could be and what i should do to remedy it. I posted a few pictures to help you guys, and the final two are of her and of the tank. BTW, she lives with a dekays snake, and that snake seems fine and feeds on nightcrawlers, which the garter gets as a treat sometimes. also there is a hamster cage near it if that might be a problem.
Thank you for all your help in advance-David
Also if anybody could help me identify if male or female, and how to post pictures, not just links
Tail from top
IMG_20120129_150146.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150146.jpg)
tail from side
IMG_20120129_150158.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150158.jpg)
spot on belly
IMG_20120129_150225.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150225.jpg)
side view of belly
IMG_20120129_150207.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150207.jpg)
snake
IMG_20120129_150342.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150342.jpg)
tank
IMG_20120129_150514.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150514.jpg)
btw, the garter got very mellow when it was 70 cold side, 82 hot spot, but when the entire tank goes from 75-82 with 88 hot spot, she is very active-wierd?
lastly, she has not shed in over two months

[chris-uk]

Nothing weird about being more active as the temp rises, they are more active at optimum temps.
Hard to tell the species from the photos... a checkered? Or radix?

Shed period... Don't worry about 2 months, our albino checkered shed last night for the first time in 104 days, the gap between their previous two sheds was just 23 days. She's about 9 months old as well. So that illustrates the variation in shed intervals.

The spot on the belly - does it have any texture? Is it raised? I'm not seeing anything that would concern me there, but like many things, it's something I'd keep an eye on.
The vent looks like something I'd ask questions about. Is there anything discharging from the vent? It looks like there's some yellowy stuff there? Does she musk a lot? Does she poo regularly after eating?

[guidofatherof5]

Female.

[guidofatherof5]

The vent does look a little crusty(minor crust) but should be monitored.
A good soaking in warm water followed by a light rubbing of the vent with a soft (cotton) cloth should clean it up.
Crusty vents can be a sign of dehydration so it is something to be watched.
It can also just be poor wiping habits.

[DMilms]

Thanks for all the help so far everybody. the snake is a checkered. the vent isnt hard, and i gave her a 5 minute warm bath, and then tried to clean it with a q-tip, gently. nothing happened, and then later when holding her she musked on me, which she does every once in a while. the black spots seem like the scales are splitting at them, and they seem pretty flush with the rest of her body. there was one, and recently another small one appeared, could it be mites? also the vent isnt discharging anything wierd, only musk, and sometimes urine or feces. she eats a pinky and poos normally. also, what would a poor whiping habit be?, i noticed she has very low huimidity due to having a space heater and open vent top, so got them them moos, and the base is repti bark. i spray heavily at least once a day, and they have a big water bowl, which she rarely ever swims in, and only a little bit more often drinks from. so anything else you could suggest?
Thanks-David
lastly, could there being a hamster tank moved nearby cause this?

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think that is a Checkered Garter Snake (T.marianus).

Where are you located?
Was this a wild caught snake or store bought?

[chris-uk]

Closeup photo of the side doesn't look very marcianus, which is why I thought maybe radix. The dorsal view photo is too blurry for me, you can see a checkered pattern but the dorsal stripe looks too wide for marcianus.

[EasternGirl]

To get my humidity up I spray a couple times a day...just make sure when you are spraying you are not making her substrate too moist. You don't want her lying in moist substrate because that can cause skin sores...I try to spray the plants and stay away from spraying the substrate. I also cover 3/4 of the top of the tank with a towel to keep the moisture in...this can help increase humidity...also adding another water dish can help. To check for mites...run a wet paper towel over her...if they are mites, you will see little black spots on the paper towels...you can usually see them moving.

Looks like she might be an eastern garter to me...can we get another close up pic of her whole body?

[guidofatherof5]

Not radix. T.radix has a lateral stripe location of row 3 and 4.

T.sirtalis has a lateral row location of scales 2 and 3. This snakes lateral location is 2 and 3.

More photos are needed but I'm leaning toward Eastern (T.sirtalis)

[EasternGirl]

Agreed...from the 5th picture, in which you can see the whole snake...she looks just like an eastern. More pics would be good.

[DMilms]

Sry, meant checkered eastern garter snake, lol. here are a few more pics of her, and also about the skin sores, when i mist, i use a hand mister, at an angle, and the substrate gets a bit wet, but then i mist straight down onto the very recently put in moss. could she has two hides, and the space under the water bowl that are dry, but could her crawling over the wet substrate cause skin sores? btw, does anybody have problems posting repsonses or threads with chrome, and pictures through photobucket?
pics
top views
IMG_20120129_150342.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150342.jpg)
IMG_20120117_193233.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120117_193233.jpg)
and a pic of the tank. if you have any comments on it, feel free
IMG_20120129_150514.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120129_150514.jpg)
btw, how do you guys feed you garters, because mine can take a full small pinky, and i give her one about once a week, with a 36 ish hour rest period after ingestion. from that feeding, what should the growth rates be? also i forgot to mention that i got her from a nearby reptile lover, who bred garters small scale

[guidofatherof5]

Photo # 5 of his photo bucket album shows a good photo for lateral ID.

[EasternGirl]

There are eastern garters and checkered garters...two different species :). Your snake is an eastern garter...T. s. sirtalis. If the substrate is just getting a little moist and then drying quickly, that is fine. You just don't want it to be wet and to stay wet so that she sits in wet substrate for extended periods...that can lead to sores. How big is your snake and about how old is she?

[DMilms]

i got her in september and was told she was a mid july baby. last time she shed, i measured it at 12 inches, but now she may have grown more, just over a foot or so. also, i found her sleeping the the moss today, and she is doesn't really have one predetermined place to stay, she moves a lot. the substrate literally dries out in less than 10 minutes, and i am planning on cutting out a piece of plexi that will make a 3 sided rim around the tank except for one side which will have a hole for the light to shine in to heat the tank. this will hopefully help the humidity. lastly, she hasnt eaten for a while, at all, ofr over a month since 2 weeks ago, now eating fine, so could that have anything to do with it?
thank you

[guidofatherof5]

I did notice in one of your photobucket photos that the pinky had a piece of bark stuck to it.
That bark can cause an impaction which can be deadly.
It's very important that no substrate is ingested.

[DMilms]

she didnt eat the bark but she is very funny about eating. my other snake will eat in a different enclosure, but my garter will actually just grab the food in her mouth, climb out of her feeding box, and slither over to her tank, and just sit by the side until i put her in. then and only then will she eat the food :D . i am very careful when feeding them, and actually watch them until they eaither finish the food completely, or decide not to eat it. my deakys actually ate a piece a bit too big, and two days later ended up throwing the entire thing up:eek:

[EasternGirl]

Well it sounds like she is about the same age as my Hermes...but a bit bigger. He eats a half a pinky or a half a pinky's worth of worms or fish every 2-3 days. If she is eating a whole pinky now...I would say give her a whole pinky about every 4 days...or the equivalent of that in fish or worms. Maybe try putting some paper towels down on top of her substrate in her tank when she eats...or a hand towel...just watch that she doesn't take the food under it. I'm not sure what you are asking. Could her not eating have anything to do with what you are seeing on her vent and skin?

[DMilms]

thanks for your help, im trying to figure out what is happening with the vent, but it doesnt seem to be affecting her. she is soooo picky though, like i just tried to feed her, and instead of going for her mouse, she went for a worm instead :D. guess she just wasnt that hungry :/ btw, she IS eating, so that is not what im concerned about. btw, could those black spots and the thing happening with the vent be from thiamese? i fed her rosy red minnows for a few feeding, maybe in total 13 little fish because there was a time when she wouldnt eat anything else, so i gave her those.
thank you-David

[guidofatherof5]

could those black spots and the thing happening with the vent be from thiamese? i fed her rosy red minnows for a few feeding, maybe in total 13 little fish because there was a time when she wouldnt eat anything else, so i gave her those.
thank you-David

I doubt it David.

[guidofatherof5]

could those black spots and the thing happening with the vent be from thiamese? i fed her rosy red minnows for a few feeding, maybe in total 13 little fish because there was a time when she wouldnt eat anything else, so i gave her those.
thank you-David

Sorry for my other short post.

I've never heard of thiaminase poisoning showing in any visual change to the snake affected by it.

[EasternGirl]

I don't think so David. She probably prefers earthworms because she is an eastern garter...easterns live primarily on earthworms in the wild. My easterns love them...but they learned to love pinkies and fish too in time. Try giving your snake a warm soak. Put her in some warm water for a couple of minutes...warm but not too hot for her...you can put her in a little bowl and just make sure she doesn't jump out...let her swim around a little...see if it helps her skin at all.

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a sunny but freezing Liverpool

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1898 -Liverpool became the first city in the world to appoint a Municipal Bacteriologist.

[DMilms]

Ive let her swim around in warm water but it did nothing. The vent area didnt clear up and the black dots didnt dissapear. Could it just be that she hasnt shed in forever and when she does it will go away?
ThAnk you, david

[EasternGirl]

Maybe...where are you David? Any chance you have access to a reptile veterinarian?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I wouldn't worry too much about the discoloration at this time i think once she sheds it will go away. As long as you keep her enclosure dry and clean it should go away. I also think that she is an eastern garter. I don't know if i would mist her for awhile because she may be getting too much humidity. I might would be more cautious with the crusty vent because like Steve said she could be dehydrated. I would stick with a softer diet like worms for a week or so to help aid with the dehydration. I would also like to add that moss is a great and natural looking decor but if kept too wet can become a breeding ground for bacteria if you use moss you might want to replace it often.

[DMilms]

Im a bit confused, i change her water regularly, i mist her enclosure, and yet she is dehydtrated. shouldn't i mist MORE often, so that it is more humid. i rarely see her swim or drink in her bowl, which she is " supposed" to do, cause she is a garter :D. what else other than worms as a diet should i use for her?, and should i give her small chunks, or nice sections so she could eat it in one big bite?
thank you, David

[EasternGirl]

There is a balance to humidity. A good humidity level is around 50%....but that is hard to have in the winter and in dry places. My humidity rarely goes above 30 or 40%. If your humidity is not over 60%, I would not worry about too much humidity. Do you have a humidity gauge? She may be drinking more often than you think...she may come out to drink when you are not looking. My young garter, Hermes, does not drink in front of me. Some garter snakes do not swim much. Dehydration is only a possibility. She may not be dehydrated. Are there any veterinarians that work with reptiles where you are?

I think it is better to feed in small chunks instead of bigger pieces. It is easier for the snake to swallow and digest small pieces. Fresh fish fillet like salmon, trout, or tilapia is good to feed. Frozen and thawed pinky mice are also good to feed. Buy fresh fish fillet at a seafood shop if you can. Do not cook it. Feed it to the snake uncooked. Frozen pinky mice can be purchased at pet stores. You must thaw them before feeding them to your snake.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sorry to confuse you David. She may or may not be dehydrated but a crusty vent sometimes indicates dehydration. What i would do if she was my snake is soak her in luke warm water a few minutes each day for 3 or 4 days to help if she is dehydrated and keep her cage dry and clean to help aid with the skin alements see if kept damp or humid it could cause the discoloration to spread or become infected.I don't think you have to worry about the discoloration at this time because a shed should fix it but you also don't want to let it get worse. I would feed her worms for a few days because they are soft and moist and easy to digest and pass and if she is dehydrated it would be easier on her but in a few days when things go back to normal i would start her back on pinkies. I hope this helps.

[DMilms]

i have a zilla humidity and temp gauge, the digital one, and the lowest it goes is 30%. sometimes, the humidity dips above 30, but it usually is not reading, which means under 30%, which is why i mist, then it goes up to like 70ish. ill feed her smaller pieces of worms, btw, nightcrawlers are fine, right? also when i soaked her the other day, the crusty material around the vent seemed to be almost tissuey, so im still trying to figure it out. when i put her into water, she "freaks" then climbs out, so i dont know why that happens. she ate yesterday, so should i give her another bath, or wait till tommorow to give her one?
btw, does anybody ever have problems posting with google chrome?

[EasternGirl]

70% is pretty high humidity...but since it is not up like that all the time, I would not worry about it. Nightcrawlers are the worms you want to feed her, yes. Take a warm, wet cloth and try to gently rub it over the vent area to see if the crusty material will come off. Maybe it is some retained shed? Do you have any antibiotic ointment such as neosporin or polysporin? You could put a little of that on the vent area in case it is an infection. Some garter snakes do not like water. My eastern garters freak out when I try to get them to swim too. If she ate worms yesterday and she pooped since then, it is probably fine to give her a bath today. Are there any animal doctors where you live? I don't know anything about Google Chrome...sorry.

[DMilms]

i dont think there are too many doctors, and ill give her bath later tonight. also ill give it a shed before i start seriously freaking out, her belly looks pretty shedy, but her eyes havent blued over, and when i clean her tank she doesnt have shed laying around. could she just be holding it because she only recentlky started eating again? btw, does anybody know the growth rates for them, like is a foot good for a 7 month female and how big do you think she will get?

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think you are going to find any growth chart that would be accurate.
There are too many variables to deal with.
You'll only get generalization and they may not apply to your situation.
Each species can grow at different rates.

[EasternGirl]

Well, we have determined that she is an eastern and eastern females can get pretty big. My eastern female, Cee Cee is almost 3 feet long. I have seen eastern garters bigger than 3 feet around here. I would say that a foot is good for a 7 month old female...I really don't know. My male eastern was about 10 inches when I found him and I am guessing that he was a little under a year old. Males are smaller than females. My male albino is about 7 months old now and he is a foot long, but he is very tiny in diameter. I am not sure the growth rate exactly. When is the last time your snake shed? Does your snake have a name?

[DMilms]

How big do your females get?

[EasternGirl]

See my last post David...I think I posted it before you asked the question. I also see that your garter snake is named Predator :).

[guidofatherof5]

Mine are not normal. They're mutant, radiated monsters. :D

If you're talking about my T.radix girls I would say they average 28-32 inches.
Then I have a few big girls that are over 36 inches.
Even within a specific species there can be a big range of sizes.
"Radixes are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get." My mama used to say that.:D

[DMilms]

my mom isnt a huge fan of the snakes, but she loves our crestie, she tries to old her more than i do :D. and for the shedding, i think now its been over two months. i got her early September, and since then she had two perfect sheds, pretty much a month apart, so she is long due for one... btw, i got the dekays and garter together, so i named them Alien and Predator, lol. also how thick do the easterns get? btw, tell me if you wanna see a pic of the crestie.

[kibakiba]

Post the crestie in the Other pets thread,I'd love to see him!

[EasternGirl]

Well, Cee Cee is a big girl...she is 133 grams. She is my eastern female. She is the one that is almost 3 feet long. She is about 33 or 34 inches long last time I measured her. I've certainly seen thicker and longer garter snakes though. We like to see other pets...post your Dekay and Crestie...all of your other pets if you want, in the Other Pets thread in the Garter Snake Lounge.

[guidofatherof5]

Post the crestie in the Other pets thread,I'd love to see him!

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/167-other-pets-non-garters-318.html#post197204

[DMilms]

not all my pets are out right now, lol. when i find them all and let the dekays digest ill try to take a group picture. the funny thing is that one of the cats likes all the reptiles and the hamster. btw, is 6g a good weight for a garter that big?

[EasternGirl]

6 grams? Are you sure you are right about that? Do you mean 60 grams? You said she was a foot long?

[DMilms]

why? way to light?

[EasternGirl]

Well...I just weighed Hermes...he is about a foot long and he is about 10 grams. But your snake did not look really skinny in the picture that you showed us...so I guess that's fine.

[DMilms]

more pics and vent update- she musked on me and her entire extretory thing came out, it was weird, now its not crusty but it seems like some tiny amount of tissue is hanging out. she was fresh out of a bath in these pics. i have a few of her, a few of top, side, and bottom views of vent. btw, she really HAS gained weight b/c she wouldnt eat for 2 months until 2 weeks ago, so i hope she is fine.
pics
IMG_20120130_221730.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120130_221730.jpg)
IMG_20120130_221749.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120130_221749.jpg)
IMG_20120130_221831.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120130_221831.jpg)
IMG_20120130_221655.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120130_221655.jpg)
IMG_20120130_220516.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120130_220516.jpg)
btw, could she have a vent inflammation?

[EasternGirl]

It is not abnormal for that to happen...for the genitalia to come out when they musk. I just saw my female do the same thing the other day. It does look as though she may have a little infection at the vent area. Could you get some Hibiclens or Betadine and some neosporin from a pharmacy? Where are you David? Are you in the United States now?

[guidofatherof5]

It doesn't look like anything at this point.
Looks like a minor irritation but it will probably clear up after the next shed.
Something to keep an eye on but not to worry about too much.
Even a little ointment or Vaseline which will keep it moist until it clears up.

[DMilms]

NJ, and i have neosporin here, should i just put some on a qtip onto her?
also does bacitracin work? btw, its kinda late, so just wait till tomorrow or do it now?
also it seems like the crust went away, and it looks better. am i right about that? and does she look healthy too?
thank you, david
edit- should i put vaseline or neosporine or nothing onto it?

[guidofatherof5]

I would say it looks better and the crusty is gone.
I would say stay with the neo. A q-tip is fine as is your finger.
Rubbing ointment on a snake's butt is just part of keeping the little scrubs. :D

[EasternGirl]

Bacitracin is good. Yes..put some on a Q-tip and put a little on the vent area. I would put a little on there everyday until it looks completely better. If you can go to a pharmacy tomorrow...buy some Hibiclens...it is an antimicrobial cleanser. Put a couple of drops of that in a cup of water and put a Q-tip in it and dab it on the vent area...then put the bacitracin on. Do that everyday...maybe twice or three times a day until it gets better. It does look better but it still looks a little infected. I would go ahead and put some bacitracin or neosporin on it now...they are very similar...I think bacitracin is a little better. Other than the vent, she looks very healthy.

[guidofatherof5]

Neosporin is a triple antibiotic, containing three different antibiotics -- bacitracin, neomycin, and polymyxin). It's a wide spectrum antibiotic, and it's what you use when you don't know what bacteria you're defending against.

[DMilms]

im about to put something on, then go to bed, which one?, lol, thanks for all the help btw. could i put her back into her tank btw? so it comes down to, apply now or later, neo or bacitracin, and can i put her into her normal tank. btw, isusing distilled water for the water bowl fine?

[DMilms]

cant find neo, so its gonna be bacitracin. btw, can incense be burned in the same room as reptile, if you know, of course, :D

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think I would use distilled water. Read something about it but can't remember the article.
I'll see if I can find the article.

Whichever ointment you choose will be fine. At this point I think keeping the area moist is the most important part.

[DMilms]

Thanks everybody, ill talk to you all tommorow :)

[EasternGirl]

Thanks Steve...I had it backwards then...I thought bacitracin was the one that had the three in it. I would put it on there as soon as you can. You can put her back in her tank...but it may be a good idea to take out the substrate and put paper towels in until the infection heals. I would not burn incense in the room with the snake...it would not be healthy for her to breathe it.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I just realized that i misspelled ailments in my last post. Please keep us posted on her status it sounds like you are doing all you can do at this point and i think she should be just fine.

[DMilms]

is it a problem of i cant get rid of the substrate? Hey are a lot more secure with the moss and reptibark than wheb they had just repticarpet when i get home from school ill check on her again
I hope she is getting better

[EasternGirl]

I understand that she is probably much more secure with substrate to burrow in. Most garters are. I was just thinking that it might be better to put paper towels in until her infection is better...so that she doesn't get any substrate in the infected area. See how it looks today. Will you be able to buy some Hibiclens?

I think the black spots you see on her belly may be normal markings for an eastern garter. I was looking at my female garter's belly this morning and she has similar black spots on her belly scales. Can I see another picture of your snake's belly?

[Light of Dae]

When I removed substrate out of one of my tanks and replaced it with paper towels I moved a few things around to help my George feel more secure. I moved things closer to the front so that the open space is towards the back... that way he can't see my every move unless he chooses to. He used to burrow all the time n hide anyways.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't really have time to read everyone's posts here so forgive me if it's already been said...

First off, that's a female eastern garter (T. sirtalis sirtalis). The scale blemishes look to me like the very early stages of scale rot. I don't mean those marks down the center of the snake. That's usually nothing to worry about. Lots of snakes have that. I mean the brownish disfigured scales. I would completely change out the substrate for fresh clean new stuff. Before putting new stuff in, disinfect the tank and everything in it.

Scale rot is caused by bacteria that flourishes in damp, dirty substrate and/or constant high humidity. It can also be caused by the snake being in contact with it's own feces, perhaps in a dirty damp hide. Wild snakes sometimes get this during brumation. Keep the tank clean and dry, and keep humidity moderate. That should keep it from getting worse but it won't correct blemishes that are already there.

In some cases, usually advanced ones, treating the snake with a strong antiseptic such as iodine or chlorhexidine may be necessary.

[DMilms]

here is an update,
iv been giving her baths and putting on bacitracin. about the possible scale rot, i changed her entire substrate less than 3 weeks ago. i boiled everything and disinfected the tank with pangea reptile disinfectant. i used repti bark and some zoo med moss to help raise the humidity. i have barely misted recently and the humidty has been about or below 30% she has eaten 2 pinkies and a few worm chunks over the past 2 or so weeks. the entire tank was cleaned and disinfected only less than 3 weeks ago. what would i have to do to combat scale rot and help with the vent. i am probably going to try to get some hibiclens today, and have been using bacitracin on her vent for the past 3 or so days. here are a few photos of her vent, her scales, and when she musked on me it seemed as though her gentalia came out, so a picture of that too.
pictures
yesterday-
IMG_20120131_193627.jpg picture by DMilms - Photobucket (http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/DMilms/?action=view&current=IMG_20120131_193627.jpg)
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sorry bout the long reply time, been really busy with school and work.
btw, is there any way to force a shed, because her head has a bluish tint, and i think the shed might help? also what is the best way for treating scale rot and whatever is happening with her vent.
thank you, david

[ConcinusMan]

No, you can't force a shed. And as far as her issues go, it sounds like you're doing everything right. The ointment helps to keep urates/feces from sticking around her vent and the disinfecting and keeping the tank clean and dry is about all you can do. As long as further progression of scale rot is halted, you should see an improvement next time she sheds. It's probably not necessary to continue treating the snake with meds beyond 2-3 weeks and as long as things aren't getting worse, you should stop then.

I had a snake that was very prone to "crusty vent". You just need to check it every few days. If it looks dirty, soak and wash it off in luke warm water before it gets really bad. That's about all you can do and that's all that you really need to do.

I think the vent issue is scale rot as well. Still looks a bit red and inflamed. Continue with antibiotic ointment until the redness subsides. Be sure to get medicine well up and under any affected belly scales. That's where the bacteria hide and flourish. I think you should use hibiclens (or any other skin antiseptic containing chlorhexidine) though. (dilute it with water about 50/50) I don't think bactracin is going to cure it, although it might help a little.

The good news is that it's in early stages and completely curable. Damaged scales won't regenerate but will look better after a shed. You'll know it's cured when the red irritated look between/under the scales goes away.

[EasternGirl]

I agree with Richard...get the Hibiclens...dilute it...and take a Q-tip and apply it to the scales and vent a couple of times a day...then put the bacitracin on. You can help a shed along by making a shed box. I don't know if this would be a good idea if she has scale rot though. One thing...I don't trust those reptile disinfectants. You can clean the tank with vinegar and it's much safer...or for a very thorough clean...use bleach and water solution. I put about one part bleach and four parts water in a spray bottle and I take everything out of the tank...then I spray the tank with the solution. Then I wipe it out...then I spray the tank with plain water a couple of times to make sure to get rid of all of the bleach. Then I let the tank air out for about an hour. Then I put new substrate and plants back in. Don't worry about seeing her genitalia come out when she musks...that happens sometimes when they are very stressed. My female does it too.

[DMilms]

That's one of the problems i am having. whenever i try to look at, or anything to the belly scales, i cant. it is almost as if she is about to shed, because i can actually see milky skin around her belly scales so i cant get under them to do anything with it. im not really misitng a lot anymore, nor did it increase the humidty for prolonged times when i did, im just worried that she might have a bad shed when she does. any way to tell when she will shed other than the blueish eyes? what kind of meds should i use with the possible scale rot and the vent btw, hibiclens for everything?
thank you, david.
btw, tell me if you need any more pics or angles of her.

[DMilms]

the disifectant stuff is this-
http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/disinfectant-refill.html

what should i do if i cant get to the sclaes?
thank you, david
(http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/disinfectant-refill.html)

[DMilms]

btw, there is another snake in the tank, should i take her out, or could she be the cause?

[ConcinusMan]

The cause is a bacterial infection that gets under the scales. Sort of like nail fungus but not a fungus. It can spread to other snakes in the tank but probably won't if the environment is kept clean and dry. If I remember right, it's a dekay's snake you have with her correct?

The only issue I can think of is that dekayi prefer much cooler temps than garters. (no heat necessary) Conditions in the tank can't be ideal for both of them at the same time. Garters need warmth, especially when fighting an infection.

Scales on a garter's belly overlap. Sort of like a fingernail or roof shingles. You can push medicine up underneath them. You have to go "against the grain" (head direction) to do that.

Hibiclens is good for just about any skin or mouth infection. It cures scale rot, blister disease, mouth infections, etc. I like it because it's strong as iodine but not as toxic. Also, the duration of it's effectiveness is very long. In other words, it keeps killing germs for a long time after applying. Once or twice a day application is enough.

[DMilms]

i was trying to see what was with her belly scales and there is actually basically, shed there. lol. i was trying to see if i could get to the spots on her tummy and i noticed i was right about the film on her belly. it was soo loose that it seems like she might shed within a week. i actually accidentally rubbed her scales backward and made a little tear in the outer scale layer, so i know that she will shed soon. hopefully that will help a lot. for now, i will get hibiclens, put it on her vent and the 3 spots using q tips, and repeat that again at least twice tommorow.
thanks for all the help.
btw, the dekay's seems pretty happy, eating, moving, growing, and she goes on the hot and cold sides, but doesnt bask as much, just stays mostly on the land.

[EasternGirl]

Usually after the eyes cloud over...the snake sheds within a couple of days. Once she starts to shed, if she has problems getting her shed off, put her in a plastic box with a warm wash cloth and just a little bit of warm water in the bottom...put a lid on top, and leave her in there for a little while...about 10 minutes to a half an hour is usually all that it takes...the shed should come off. Once it comes off...check her and make sure none of the shed is left on...check her face and tail carefully. If there is any shed left, you can take the cloth and rub her gently to get the rest of it off.

Steve...if you are reading this and you can post a clip of your shed box video...that would be great. I can never find it when I need it :).

[guidofatherof5]

Cs0Vqm2pP18

[DMilms]

thanx for the info but i already knew that :D. shes surprisingly had two perfect sheds and i caught the blue eyes.this time i haven't yet, but this loose tummy skin and bueish head skin seems to be pointing t a shed very soon. she has good shedding stuff- a sharp rock, a sharp half log, and her corner hide, so i expect her to shed well, the only thing im worried about is having to raise the humidity and how it would affect her problems. btw, i got the hibiclens, so that is going on tonight :D

[DMilms]

hibiclens should be a 1 to 1 with water and used on a q tip to the affected areas, right?, and should i get all up in her vent and get it all over in there?

[EasternGirl]

I don't actually put as much hibiclens...but Richard said 50/50 so...yes, I would do 1 to 1...as long as it is diluted, you will be fine. I wouldn't go up into the vent...you might hurt her if you try to go inside...just put it on the infected area you see on the outside...maybe a little bit under the crease of the vent...but don't try to go inside of her.

[DMilms]

put some hibiclens on her just now, but feel like a total *******. i ripped a bit of her outer layer on her tummy, the one that is supposed to shed soon while trying to apply hibiclens to the scale rot on there. her scales were really fragile so now im hoping they wont be misshaped or something :confused:
hopefully she will shed soon, because the entire tummy is actually off herself, just there. btw, should i apply hibiclens twice a day and mist her once a day, or not mist and risk a bad shed??????

[EasternGirl]

Can you post a pic of this? What her tummy looks like?

I'm thinking if the shed is coming off that much..maybe you should just put her in a shed box. Steve? You out there?

[kibakiba]

I'd stop misting. Humidity will make the scale rot worse. If she has a hard time shedding, you can help her with it by getting the skin off. But, you only need to do that if she cn't do it herself.

[DMilms]

her head skin doesn't seem loose, and doesn't she need some rough stuff to start the shed? if by Sunday she doesn't shed i will try to do something about it. ill put some more hibiclens on her later today, and im getting up early tomorrow so i could monitor her. her tummy looks fine, but it looks like her scales under her skin are still a bit fragile. ill try to leave it on her until she trys to get it off. and also when the area by her scale rot came off some of the black stuff came off, so yay, cause i think its helping.
thank you, david
on a side note, my crestie just had her first shed with me and it was perfect :D

[EasternGirl]

Usually yes...they need something in the enclosure that is rough to start the shed on...like a rough hide such as a log or coconut hide to rub against to get the shed started. Does she have anything like that in her enclosure?

Good news about your crestie!

[ConcinusMan]

It's surprising how little they need to shed successfully. They can manage with nothing in the tank but bedding or newspaper lining.

[EasternGirl]

Really? Mine always go around the tank rubbing on plants and hides trying to get it off...and usually have to wedge themselves in between something in order to successfully slide out of the shed.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, they will do that. But I've had them shed even in totally bare containers. If a shed is going to go well, the skin will usually start peeling off the head all on it's own. All that is needed from there on out is a little friction.

[EasternGirl]

My albino is still hiding from me after I had to help him with his last shed...poor thing was hanging out with his shed down around his neck and couldn't get it going from there...so I put him in a shed box...but then it started coming off in pieces, so I had to rub it off with a washcloth...he was not happy.

[kibakiba]

He'll learn that you were just trying to help him... When I had Squirt, she eventually learned that I was helping her when she had a mouth infection. It took time, though.

[DMilms]

sooo happy right now. i just came home form getting crickets and i noticed blue eyes on my girl as i was about to put hibiclens on her. hopefully this shed really helps with her problems. im sooo relieved right now :D
btrw, should i just keep on putting hibiclens at least daily for the next month, and if it doesn't all go away then go to the doctor?
thank you, david

[guidofatherof5]

Lip infections can stay swollen for sometime as it heals.
There can also be scar tissue that will keep the lip a little puffy even after it is all healed.

[EasternGirl]

I would say to probably put the hibiclens on for about two weeks and then see how it looks. If it has not improved by then, I would take her to a veterinarian that specializes in reptiles if there is one near you. Post some pics of her after the shed so that we can see how her scales and vent look, if you can.

[DMilms]

SHE SHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO HAPPY. the vent looks perfect, might have been just skin bunched up causing problem,s and i have yet to check on the possible skin rot,m but im hoping that that is gone too. she actually went to the bathroom while she shed and the skin came off in 2 big pieces and 2 other tiny ones. surprisingly perfect for the dry conditions she was in and the amount of time it took her to enter shed.
pics coming when i let her rest a bit. also she hasn't eaten in over a week, feed her or wait?. ill continue with the hibiclens just to be safe.
Thank you, David

[EasternGirl]

No reason not to feed her. If she wasn't eating because of the impending shed..she is probably hungry. So glad to hear she shed. That is great news! Check and makes sure you see eye pieces and a tail piece on the shed and look at her carefully to make sure that none of the shed stayed on anywhere...especially around the face, neck and tail. Let us know what the area where the skin rot looks like now. Pics would be great...try to take some from the top and from underneath too.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to hear she shed. Offer her some food, no reason not to.