diet

[kingTom]

Hi!I've 1 Thamnophis sauritus and 2 Thamnophis sirtalis.I'm feeding em with frozen salmon(80%of diet),chicken and turkey.
I've to change somethings?
I never integrate whit calcium or vitamins,should I?
can you tel me if frozen Atherina boyeri is a tiaminase free fish?
I read that pork meat is rich in B1 should I give them sometimes?
may I give them only frozen salmon whit calcium powder?is It a good diet?

[guidofatherof5]

Hi!I've 1 Thamnophis sauritus and 2 Thamnophis sirtalis.I'm feeding em with frozen salmon(80%of diet),chicken and turkey.
I've to change somethings?
I never integrate whit calcium or vitamins,should I?
can you tel me if frozen Atherina boyeri is a tiaminase free fish?
I read that pork meat is rich in B1 should I give them sometimes?
may I give them only frozen salmon whit calcium powder?is It a good diet?

Are night crawlers available?
What about frozen/thawed pinky mice?
I would say you need to use a supplement.
Here's what I use. Not sure what's available to you.(3rd product down)
Rep-Cal Supplements (http://www.repcal.com/supp.htm)
I don't see Atherina boyeri (sand smelt) on the safe or unsafe list.
In that case I would say don't feed.

[kingTom]

So if I use salmon with that supplement and sometimes chicken and turkey is it ok?I can't give mice:-(

[guidofatherof5]

So if I use salmon with that supplement and sometimes chicken and turkey is it ok?I can't give mice:-(

What about worms?

[kingTom]

No i cant give worms.only few time...isn't a good diet if I give only salmon cicken and turkey?may I give other kind of meat?

[kingTom]

can you give me some exemple of tipical diet?how many food and how many times should I feed em?

[kingTom]

may I catch worms in my garden?

[EasternGirl]

A typical diet is earthworms (nightcrawlers), frozen/thawed pinky mice, and fresh seafood fillet like salmon, trout, and tilapia. As long as the worms are earthworms in your garden and there is no fertilizer or any other chemicals that could harm the snake in the soil, that should be fine. I buy fresh seafood fillet from the seafood counter at my supermarket. Seafood stores are good too. You do not want frozen fish. I get frozen pinkies from the pet store or I order them online from a distributer and have them shipped frozen. I get the nightcrawlers from a marine store that sells them for fishing...but you have to make sure they are nightcrawlers and not another type of worm. If you have any questions about worms, you can always post a picture.

I do not know much about feeding chicken and turkey or other kinds of meat..perhaps other members could tell you more about that.

[kibakiba]

I'd say keep the chicken and turkey as a treat, and make sure it's not filled with salt water. Chicken thighs are usually quite a bit better than breasts, I'm not sure about turkey though. Keep it uncooked.

[kingTom]

excuse me I don't understand english very well,what do you means with "I'd say keep the chicken and turkey as a treat",is It dangerous to give chicken or turkey?Do you know other kind of meat to give as an alternative to pinki?

[guidofatherof5]

may I catch worms in my garden?

Yes, as long as the area isn't treated with fertilizers and/or herbicides.

[kibakiba]

It's not exactly dangerous, but it's not something you should really be giving them on a regular basis.

[katach]

What is your native language? We could translate our responses for you. I think your english is very good, by the way.

[Light of Dae]

excuse me I don't understand english very well,what do you means with "I'd say keep the chicken and turkey as a treat",is It dangerous to give chicken or turkey?Do you know other kind of meat to give as an alternative to pinki?

Here is a perfect site to help you! Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/) Just copy n paste stuff you cannot understand in there, as well if you cannot figure out how to say something in english type what ever you want in there and it will translate for you!

[Light of Dae]

You could feed 'Silversides' Those are a good meal.

[kingTom]

thanl you all for the answers!!!ok I could check for silversides.can you tell me scintific name for silversides?I have to give them frozen or fresh?Can silversides be used as base of the diet?

[EasternGirl]

I think the scientific name is Menidia menidia? You can buy them frozen, but you must thaw them before feeding to the snake, or you can buy them fresh. Does anyone know if the scientific name is correct? If you could tell us your native language, we may be able to translate the text or find a member that speaks your language that can help. The best diet for garter snakes is a varied diet of pinky mice, fish and worms. Can you get fresh fish from a seafood store? Trout or salmon? You can use the worms in your garden if there are no chemicals in the soil. What state do you live in? We can tell you where to buy pinkies and fish and worms.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

We had a forum member who regularly fed his garters strips of caribou. I would say as long as you are varying the diet as much as you possibly can and are supplementing it well, the occasional chicken or turkey is not going to hurt... as long as it is raw and not salted. I have given my garters raw chicken as a treat and I will say they LOVE it! They will eat the heart... the gizzard, the meat... pretty much any part of it. Garters will also eat small quail chicks and what not and have been documented eating birds in the wild on occasion. Garter snakes have been spotted on the road attempting to pick chunks off of roadkill! They are opportunistic and so I'd say some occasional chicken is really no different than giving them mice, don't forget that chicken OR mice are NOT something they consume regularly in the wild! MOST snakes eat mice regularly... garters eat fish, frogs, and worms regularly... so a diet of mice is just as strange to a garter as a diet of birds!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Might I also add.... I have actually had garters that refused fish and mice give in over a strip of raw chicken. There is something about it, I suppose!

[mikem]

the only calcium powder i can find locally has d3. is that what i should be using?

[EasternGirl]

Yeah, mine has D3 in it...it's repcal...should be fine. What is the brand?

[mikem]

Tetrafauna reptocal from petsmart.

[EasternGirl]

It's calcium and D3? Should be good. Just dust a little on the food every 3-4 feedings...that's what I have heard is best. If you give a varied diet you shouldn't need supplements, but if you are not feeding pinkies, worms and fish...it helps to supplement. My vet said you have to be careful with multivitamins because you can give too much, but that calcium supplements are safe because you can't really overdose on calcium.

[kingTom]

thank you for answering me!!!!I came from Napoli,Italy.Ok than I can catch worms from my garden It's very large and we never use any kind of chemical substances :).But I don't know wich species of worms I can give,maybe some of them are not edible,I don't know...
However here it's simple to get fresh salmon and sometimes trouts too,than it's all right.So I'll give Salmon,trouts,worms,chicken,turkey supplementing with calcium powder plus D3.
I'm feeding my thamnophis every 3 days...It's good or I should give more or less often?the vendor told me 1 time at week but I thought It was too little.

[guidofatherof5]

You were right. One time a week isn't enough under most circumstances.

[EasternGirl]

A friend pointed out to me politely that I really shouldn't speak in absolutes...so let me correct what I said earlier about the calcium supplements. You can give too much calcium...any vitamin can be dangerous if you give too much. You must be very careful with supplements. The best way to ensure that your snake gets the vitamins and nutrients that it needs is to feed a varied diet. If you feed a varied diet, you should not need supplements. My vet told me that he recommends giving a varied diet and not using supplements. You should only use supplements if you cannot provide the necessary diet. If you must give calcium and D3, it is best to only dust a little on the food every 3 or 4 feedings. However, if you are feeding fish and worms and chicken and turkey, I do not think you need to use the supplements. I'm not sure what other members think about that.

Depending on the size of the snake...I feed my adult snake every 4 or 5 days and my young snake every 2 or 3 days. I feed the snake until the snake looks fat.

Can you take a picture of the worms in your garden and post the picture for us?

Do we have any other members from Italy on the forum?

[Selkielass]

In genaral, garden worms, dug from the dirt in a chemical free garden are good- my snakes go crazy over freshly dug worms.
Beware of the red worms used for composting. These are often sold as fishing bait- 'redworms' 'leafworms' or "Pan fish worms'. If you are buying from a bait store or mass market sporting goods store look for Night Crawlers. In my area they are often sold in different sizes, but always as crawlers.

Welcome to the forum!

[EasternGirl]

Yes...I buy my nightcrawlers from a marine store near my house in the cold months, but when it is warm in the spring and summer I get them out of my backyard. We have many nightcrawlers all over my back yard and we do not use any chemicals on our lawn. My snakes love fresh worms too!

[mikem]

I was just at the grocery store and checking the frozen tilapia fillets. The packaging says that carbon monoxide is used to preserve color. Would those be safe to use? It didn't say anything about sodium polytriphosphate.

[guidofatherof5]

Found this.

Carbon Monoxide In Fresh Meat Packaging (http://willtaft.com/138/food-safety/carbon-monoxide-in-fresh-meat-packaging)

[chris-uk]

Packaging foods in an inert gas is a perfectly safe practice. The vast majority of meat in the UK is packaged in a protective atmosphere, my first job was at a food research association where the techniques were developed and tested. :)
Far safer than packaged foods with chemical preservatives.

[EasternGirl]

I don't use frozen seafood though...many members don't recommend it. I only use fresh seafood from the seafood counter or from a seafood store...what do other members have to say about this?

[chris-uk]

I only use fresh Scottish salmon and trout which I then freeze myself. If fish is frozen without processing or additives its not much different to fresh fish you freeze yourself, however any packaged foods could have been processed in some way and depending on your local labelling laws it may not be on the label (in the UK food labelling is legislated fairly well, so you usually know what you're buying).
I use fish fresh from a counter because I can, if I could only buy pre-frozen I'd use it if the label told me it wasn't messed with.

[EasternGirl]

Right...I buy it fresh and then I freeze what is left and use it for several months after that. I usually use Alaskan salmon and steel-head trout. I did buy some tilapia recently but the snakes didn't seem to care for it much...guess they have been spoiled by all the salmon and trout. Spoiled little buggers...

[guidofatherof5]

Spoiled little buggers...

As well they should be. They deserve it for all the mistreatment they receive out in the wild world.
I know in my city they are mistreated and killed just for being a snake. I feel like I owe them a little comfort.

[EasternGirl]

So true...most people see them as some sort of threat and go up and kill them when they see them...in the snake's natural habitat! If you have a problem with the snake, then remove yourself from the snake's environment. One of the reasons that I took Cee Cee in, among many other reasons, is that I knew if I left her outside in my yard...someone would come along and see her and kill her because they were scared of her. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[mikem]

thanks for the link steve and for the insight there chris! i just like to see what all my best options are in a worse case scenario ;)