New :)

[CarlieLynn]

Hello, my name is Carlie and I am fairly terrible with introductions. I am 19 years old and live near Sudbury Ontario. I am a new member to the forum and also to garter snakes. I picked up a trio of these little guys in late September and I adore them. I have kept and bred snakes/lizards for about 3 years, this includes leo's, pictus geckos, bearded dragons, taiwanese beauties, kenya sand boas, king snakes, texas rat snakes, ball pythons and corns. I hope to be able to get to know some of you and become an active participant on this board, thank you for your time !

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[GarterGuy17]

Welcome to the forum Carlie :)

John

[chris-uk]

Welcome aboard. It sounds like you've got a wealth of reptile experience to share. What sort of garters do you have?

[Mommy2many]

Welcome to our forum, Carlie! I'm in Connecticut. Would love to see some pictures when you get the chance.

[indigoman]

welcome from Virginia!

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
Here's a link to the forum care sheet. Any questions it doesn't answer can be posted to the members.
Looking forward to see some photos of your snakes.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[EasternGirl]

Welcome to the forum! We love pics!

[gregmonsta]

Greetings :D

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family!

[mikem]

welcome to the forum! what kind of garters did ya get?

[CarlieLynn]

Thank you for the welcomes ! I got checkered garters, a trio of them. The male is hypo/pastel (i don't know what you guys refer them to as), and also a regular and an albino female.
Male Pastel/Hypo ?
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG3432-Copy.jpg
Female Normal
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG3424-Copy.jpg
Albino Female
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG3417-Copy.jpg

[brain]

Nice lookers , and the albino is cool too :)

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[chris-uk]

What makes the male a hypo/pastel? It looks like a regular checkered to me :confused:.

[PINJOHN]

What makes the male a hypo/pastel? It looks like a regular checkered to me :confused:.
got a feeling you are opening a whole can of worms there Chris.

[chris-uk]

got a feeling you are opening a whole can of worms there Chris.

Ooops!

Still, if the difference is visible in the photo I'd be interested to know what makes it a pastel/hypo. Else, I'm assuming it's a subtle colour difference that the lighting for the photo doesn't show.

[Light of Dae]

Beautiful snakes, take it you plan on breeding them? Are they all unrelated? The checkereds tend to be a heavily inbreed species...

[chris-uk]

Beautiful snakes, take it you plan on breeding them? Are they all unrelated? The checkereds tend to be a heavily inbreed species...

More so with the albinos. Albino to normal should be a much better prospect.

[EasternGirl]

The albino is a Hermes! I have an albino checkered too. His name is Hermes:

3919

[Selkielass]

Welcome!
Nice looking snakes. Both have much clearer checkers than my albino checkered... but then Ziva has several problems, all probably related to inbreeding. She's still a very well mannered lady.

[CarlieLynn]

To Chris ! These are not my words but rather by someone that goes by 'Spakenstyne' on a different reptile forum.

'There's some debate in the garter world about the "hypo" checkereds. Many have taken to calling them "pastel" due to the fact that it doesn't seem to be any lessening of the black but rather a brightening or lightening of the green & brown tones with the blacks looking more intense. Some discussion as well over if it's recessive or co-dom. It gets even more confusing because there seems to be varying degrees of it, some just looking more clean and brighter green than the usual olive colours all the way to some looking an almost neon whitish green. It's easier to see in some babies and the adults usually just look cleaner & more green.

There are a few signs one can look for but they don't seem to be a sure thing either, most will show some squiggly busy top of the head pattern and abberrent pattern on the neck, and some don't. Really though when you see normal babies and pastel babies it becomes more obvious and easier to tell.'

If anyone feels the need to correct me please do. I am new and will not take offence to anything you say. Here are some new side by side photos of my normal and pastel. The differences are slight but noticeable. If my male doesn't make the classification of a pastel someone let me know please.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG3847.jpg
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG3853.jpg
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG3856.jpg
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/CIMG3850.jpg

[chris-uk]

With the two side-by-side there's a difference in colour. I'd probably argue that this is natural variation from one snake to another, we had 4 checkereds from the same litter and side-by-side there was a similar variation in colour.
I won't open the can of worms any further by questioning the genetics of the colour variation and whether is should be considered a morph. Personally, I prefer the greener variation, but they're both great looking snakes.

[CarlieLynn]

Thank you ! And to be honest it doesn't bother me what he is considered, that is what I got him as so that's what I listed him as (tho now just considering throwing a normal label on him). I personally like the darker one better. I am interested to see what they produce in a few years. And also if anyone has new info on the 'pastel morph' please toss it my way !

*And to 'Light of Dae', the two females are related and I believe the male has the same father. I prefer getting unrelated snakes but I have never seen these guys before.

[PINJOHN]

I think the person who might throw some light on this issue for you is asnakelovinbabe i might have got it wrong but i think she owns some, although she has just had a very beautiful addition to her family, so i am not sure how often she might get on line perhaps a pm might be in order.

[CarlieLynn]

Thank you :) I will contact her, I also have a new addition to my family :), I know how it gets ! ahha.

[EasternGirl]

I think checkereds are so neat looking! I love my albino, but the pattern is even more interesting looking on the regular colored (non-albino) checkereds.

[PINJOHN]

Thank you :) I will contact her, I also have a new addition to my family :), I know how it gets ! ahha.
Well done congratulations i think some photos are called for ...boy?...girl? its not just snakes that get us going... ooow and ahrr on this forum, lets see the little tyke. :)

EDIT i have just noticed that you have not received your Liverpool welcome,... a thousand apologies, welcome to follow asap

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a very wet Liverpool
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4y1dPtN-EVPENg1BYYsLqoHg5jOJOmruRHFC-G6D7nGLBSxPphAhttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaz93quM1Ay0V0d7uMRqvUm3CpZZtMC wWq2SdiSWB_eWH5brgjzg
TODAY'S SCOUSE FACTOID

1999, Liverpool was the first city outside the capital to be awarded blue plaques (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_plaques) by English Heritage in recognition of the "significant contribution made by its sons and daughters in all walks of life.

[CarlieLynn]

BOY :) And I will post a thread of him shortly ! May be picture heavy Ahahah,

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hi Guys, thanks Steve and CarlieLynn for the PM's alerting me to this thread... I would have not seen it! I'm so busy with my newborn that I don't have time to read as much forum material as I'd like!! As far as visually IDing a pastel.. it is quite tricky, especially when you have such a subtle one as this male! I would say yes, he most likely is, due to the pattering on his head and the heavier barring on his neck seems to fit... and he DOES have that glowy-pastel-look. Do you have a photo that shows his labial pattern (his lips)? That would help a bit because often pastels have a very odd labial pattern going on. It gets harder as they grow up because they darken up. The easiest way to ID pastels... is to see them at birth! Usually the babies are very bright and different from one another but as they grow they change and it becomes harder to tell. Also, if you are unsure, breed it when it is big enough! Although the genetics of pastels is still uncertain, as people have had breedings that seem to point towards recessive but then there are people like ME who have had breedings suggest it is dominant and possibly incomplete dominant, with some beleiving there is a super form. But then I bred a male pastel to a totally unrelated albino female that I raised and I got some of the whitest pastel babies ever! They were even whiter and brighter than what other keepers thought were "supers" SO it's really still a mystery. Also got a lot of deformed babies that were dead. The clutch was small and the babies were TEENIE and weak. The few I did get going were quite a pain to work with until they had started taking pinky pieces. ANYWAYS, I believe the pastel has been floating around in our hobby for quite some time but has gone largely unnoticed because a lot of pastels when born are not SUPER bright and darken up quickly, and the average peson doesn't even notice the slight differences between the adults. I have spotted pastel checkereds at shows being sold as normals and picked one up from Ben Siegel Reptiles once that was clearly an adult pastel. You just have to know the "look".... they have kind of a screwy face, head, and neck pattern and their checkers are extra crispy looking. Like I said... I think they have been floating around longer than we'd like to think and we have just recently began noticing them.

[CarlieLynn]

I will get pics of his lips tomorrow, as it is feeding day, Thank you :)

[Stefan-A]

Are we sure pastels even exist?

[chris-uk]

Are we sure pastels even exist?

If they can be predictably bred there's an argument that they do. If not, then they are a natural variation in the colour of babies... Defining morphs, what a can of worms.

[CarlieLynn]

Will this do aSnakeLovinBabe ?
Pastel
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG4055.jpg
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG4056.jpg
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG4058.jpg
Normal
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG4060.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Great photos.

[Light of Dae]

Indeed very nice photos,
Side by side you can spot the difference quite easily

3966

[Light of Dae]

Does this look .. off to anyone else? I just noticed it, kinda looks like retained shed on the tail tip? or is it just the angle of the tail compared to the camera angle?
3967

[guidofatherof5]

I can't really tell from that photo.

[CarlieLynn]

Thank you, and Light of Dae I took this photo at the same time his tail looks fine to me.
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af95/CarlieLynn/Snakes/CIMG4057.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Gorgeous snakes!

[katach]

Awesome photography! You'll love our photo contests!

[CarlieLynn]

Thank you ! And I can't wait to attempt to participate in the photo contest. Unfortunately I can't participate this time around as I live in Ontario and my babies would freeze out there.

[brain]

Ditto, Gorgeous snakes!
Mine have a slight green tint to them.

[dieselbaby]

Welcome to the forum. This is a great bunch of people. Nice to see another Ontarian here. Again welcome.