3 thamnophis!!!

[kingTom]

hi all!greetings from italy!

I have 1 adult thamnophis i'm going to buy to other thamnophis smaller than the first(10 cm of difference).The question is.may 3 thamnophis live together in a big tank?how big should the tank be?sorry for my english.

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum.

Are the 3 snakes the snake species?
Are they the same sex?
Are they about the same size?

[GarterGuy17]

Welcome to the forum ! :)

What size tank do you have ?

[EasternGirl]

Welcome to the forum!!! Yes, it would depend on the species and the sex...and the size of the snakes.

[chris-uk]

Welcome aboard.
Three snakes are fine together depending on: species, size and sex.
What species are you keeping?
You mention your current one is adult, and the new will be 10cm shorter. How long is the current? I'd have thought if you're talking 100cm, and 90cm (or around that) you will be fine.
Unless you want them breeding make sure you keep the same sex snakes together.

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! Your english is just fine.

Benvenuti nella famiglia del forum! Il tuo inglese è bene.

[kingTom]

thank you!!!!!!!!
they are 3 thamnophis sirtalis,i'm not sure but i guess they're 3 sirtalis sirtalis.the bigger one is abut 65cm(male) the other are about 55cm...they should be 2 male and 1 female,sorry i'm not sure of the sex.the tank is 80cm x40cm x40cm.

[kingTom]

thank youuuuuuuu

[kingTom]

they are 3 thamnophis sirtalis (of the same subspecies maybe sirtalis sirtalis) the bigger one is 65 cm the smaller is 55cm but I have to check better because the other two snakes are not mine yet maybe they are the same lenght.I think they are 2 male and 1 female,but I'm not sure.is better 1 male and 2 female or 2male and 1 female?the tank is 80cm x40cm x40 cm maybe larger.could I post photo of the first snake so you can tell me the species and the sex?thank youuuuuuu!!!

[kingTom]

my sirtalis is 65 cm long the distance between cloaca and the end of the tail is 20cm maybe 22 cm.i couldn't be more accurate because he don't like to be manipulated...

[EasternGirl]

If they are all the same subspecies, that is perfect! And may I say as a lover of eastern garters, great snakes you have if they are sirtalis sirtalis! If you post pics we can tell you for sure. We can also tell you the sex if you do not know for sure, but we would have to see a picture of the cloaca. You can house two males or two females together...you do not want to put a male and female together unless you are planning to breed. As far as the sizes go, from what I have been told, you always run a risk when you put garters of different sizes together. You have to be especially careful when feeding them that they do not fight over food because the bigger snake could harm the smaller snake. I do have a large eastern female who was housed with a small eastern male and they did fine together, but I never fed them together ( also the female is possibly gravid now).

Where are you in Italy? Do you know of a town called Cavedago? Apparently my family is the only family that lives there or something like that...it's in Northern Italy.

[kingTom]

37663767376837693770

[kingTom]

these are some photos I've done 2 mounths ago,is this snake a sirtalis sirtalis?he is more than 60cm long...is adult?I could ask to the seller to have some photo of his snakes to know their sex.I want to have other thamnophis so I could try in a future to breed them.Is easy whit only a pair or I should buy more than a male or a female?another question...when thamnophis are ready to breed (wheigh,age....?).is possible to breed two thamnophis of different subspecies?

[EasternGirl]

Sorry...I can't really tell anything from those pics. I would have to see a pic of the snake up close outside of the enclosure from the front to tell what kind of snake...and a pic of you holding him/her up to see a close-up of the cloaca to determine sex like this:

3771 for sexing. 3772 Here is a close up of one of my easterns (T.s.sirtalis) to compare...

[EasternGirl]

As far as age of breeding is concerned...I will let another member answer that question. I am not sure about weight considerations either. You can breed different subspecies I believe as long as they are of the same species. But again, I do not know a lot about this, so I will let another member answer that as well.

[kingTom]

this is another photo I've found.maybe you can tell me somethings abut the species.tomorror I'll shoot other photo now he is sleeping are 4:00 AM now in Italy :).thank you for the answers!!!you're very very very nice!thank you all!

[EasternGirl]

Sorry...no..I can't see the cloaca in that pic...and I wouldn't be comfortable giving a definite on species from the pic either. Try to get another pic tomorrow. :).

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a spring like Liverpool
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[kingTom]

37903791379237933794

[kingTom]

379537963797

[kibakiba]

Looks like a male to me.

[kingTom]

thanks!can you tell me something about subspecies too?

[kibakiba]

I don't know much about other species besides concinnus and northwesterns, but it looks like a typical eastern to me. There should be plenty of members that can confirm that, though ;)

[chris-uk]

I'd say female, as the tail starts tapering straight after the cloaca and it's a long steady taper. No sign that the tail stays wide after the cloaca that you'd expect in a male.

Having said that it looks like our blacknecks' tails, and I wouldn't make a call on their sex when I'm holding them in my hand.

[kingTom]

male or female :( ?

[EasternGirl]

I was thinking female too...but that does not look like any of my easterns. What is going on with the cloaca? Is that normal for it to look like that? I'm actually directing this question to other members...the black ring looking mark at the cloaca, I mean. Is that what you are talking about with your blacknecks, Chris? That is not typical of easterns either.

[kingTom]

when i take it,it defecates everytime.that's the reason why of that cloaca.I rarely take it beacause I don't wanna stress him.

[chris-uk]

I was thinking female too...but that does not look like any of my easterns. What is going on with the cloaca? Is that normal for it to look like that? I'm actually directing this question to other members...the black ring looking mark at the cloaca, I mean. Is that what you are talking about with your blacknecks, Chris? That is not typical of easterns either.
No, I was referring to the long tapering of the tail. Our Blacknecks tails are a lot longer than our checkereds or cuitzeoensis tails. The long tapering tail makes it difficult for me to sex them, but I can look at a checkered or Cuitzeo and and be a lot more confident.

[kibakiba]

The body shape and size, if that is an adult is what makes it look male the most. To me, at least.

[EasternGirl]

Well...I am not an expert at sexing by pics yet...lets get some other members input. But I don't think it looks like an eastern...I'm not sure what species it is...we need to get other members input on that too.

Anyone else want to take a shot at this?

[kingTom]

thank you for the answeers!please can someone else tell me what's the sex and the species of this thamnophis?I'm going to buy other thamnophis to a future breeding but I can't till I don't know the sex and the subspecies :(