Marnie's Snakes

[kueluck]

Poor Cee Cee, I hope she returns to her nomal self soon.

[ProXimuS]

Poor girl!(Well both of you really!) I hope she'll start doing better soon!

Is it possible(or a good idea) to hold back food for an extra few days/possibly week, and see if she is still throwing up? I know if it was an RI it shouldn't be coming from her stomach(well...I would assume), so if she doesn't eat for a little while and stops you can maybe narrow it down a little.:confused:

[EasternGirl]

She seems to be doing better now. She goes through weird spells. I had to change the substrate in her and Sadie's enclosure last night...it seems that when she was soaking, the water went over the sides of the bowl and got the substrate all wet around it. I'll have to keep a close eye on her because I put carefresh in the tank...it's all I have right now...and carefresh sometimes upsets her breathing. I don't see any other signs of an RI right now...not an acute one anyway...she just has bad spells sometimes...the vet said she has a chronic respiratory condition.

The rescued snake is still not eating...and still hiding. I think I am going to take her to my friend's house. She lives on White Clay Creek...there are lots of woods and a nice creek there...she should be safe to release there.

I had an emergency and had to break Bella's quarantine a bit early. It has been almost 60 days though, with no sign of illness. Our air conditioner broke yesterday and I had to put all of the babies in a plastic tub and move them to my son's room where there was air conditioning. The house was getting too hot...the adults were okay...but I didn't want the babies to overheat. Bella is now in with the eastern babies and little Joe. Tell me again, what age should I separate the boys and girls? I still have to determine the sex of the easterns.

[Invisible Snake]

I would say as early as 6-7 months old.

[guidofatherof5]

I start thinking about separating at 1 year.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...sounds good. I am going to have to try to figure out if the easterns are boys or girls...I still haven't gotten a new camera...I really need to post pics to get some help on sexing them. I'm not even positive that Bella is a girl!

[EasternGirl]

The new snake, the rescue snake...well, I still have him or her. I haven't been able to get myself to release her. I just haven't felt right about putting her outside somewhere that she isn't familiar with the environment. I can't put her back in the neighbor's yard because of the foxes and the kids. The good news is...she seems to be coming around. I'm still not sure if she is sick or not...but she seems to be adjusting to captivity...she comes out to see me and she finally ate last night! Two dishes of worms! I don't think she was finding much food where she was...she is very thin. I would like to put some weight on her. Then I have to determine if she is actually a her. My son named her Ziggy. Day to day...not sure how she is going to do...but she seems to be getting better. She likes to climb onto a plant I put in her tank and bask.

[mikem]

That's good she's starting to come around and start eating! I see you've added Ziggy to your signature, so I don't think you're going to release her ;) Keep feeding her and she'll fatten up! Looking forward to seeing your new addition :)

[Dan72]

Sounds like your hands are full, good to hear that everything is working itself out and coming around as things seem to do.

[chris-uk]

Feed her, fatten her up, then make the decision. And with a name like Ziggy if you keep her and she's a he, the name could be used for either sex.

[ConcinusMan]

Coming from a guy who had a boy named "Amy" that sounds like a wise approach.

[EasternGirl]

Lol...yep...that is what I told my son...Ziggy works either way. S/he has eaten twice now...two big plates of worms each time. S/he still doesn't like contact though...but does come out to look at me and likes to bask and go in the water. I put another hide in the enclosure which s/he seems to like. I just don't feel right relocating and releasing. I do need to try to figure out the sex though!

I haven't seen anymore mites in the babies enclosure. Could they have been eradicated with just one treatment? Bella is now eating with the other babies. She and little Joe have made fast friends...I think they are in love ;). Should I worry about canoodling at this point? I often lift up the paper towel in the enclosure and find all four babies cuddled up together...so cute!

It was feeding time the other day...and as I have said before...these garters must have amazing smell ability. If I put food in one enclosure...the whole brood gets in a frenzy! As soon as I reached in to take Sadie out to feed her...she bit me several times. Now, however, that I have gotten used to it...I do not freeze up and pull back when she goes to nip at me. I just go ahead and pick her up and let her nip for a minute and say "Now knock it off...I'm not dealing with that nonsense!"...and she stops...lol. Once I pick her up...she's fine. Of course...3 worms each was not enough for my big greedy girls! They were looking for more the next day...being spoiled...they each got another two small worms! And of course...Sadie has taught Cee Cee some defense maneuvers. Yesterday, I went to pet Cee Cee and she turned around and bit me! Silly girls!

[EasternGirl]

Got a wonderful surprise tonight...the neighbor boys brought me a baby eastern! She is a bit smaller than my babies...I would say she is probably about 3 mos old. We have named her Athena, and she is in quarantine. She is a cutie! Have no idea how I will fit her name in my sig...lol.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like the name Marnie will have to go.:D

[kueluck]

I'm guessing you don't have a personal limit there huh?? And I'm trying to figure out how to divide one on one time with just four. Happy to hear you are miteless. :D

[EasternGirl]

I passed my personal limit a while ago! Taking care of 12 snakes is no joke...especially when 5 of them are babies. I don't know how some of the breeders on here do it...and have families and jobs to boot! But the neighbor boys keep bringing me snakes...apparently all of the garters that have been missing from my yard the past two years have gone to live over there...and they can't leave them in their yard because foxes go in the yard. I have a feeling there must be more babies over there...where there is one...

I'm just glad the weather will get cold soon and the snakes will brumate...because I don't know how many more snakes I can take in!

[EasternGirl]

Oh and btw...Stefan explained how to fix my sig so I could fit everything in! Thanks Stefan!

[guidofatherof5]

I passed my personal limit a while ago! Taking care of 12 snakes is no joke...especially when 5 of them are babies. I don't know how some of the breeders on here do it...and have families and jobs to boot! But the neighbor boys keep bringing me snakes...apparently all of the garters that have been missing from my yard the past two years have gone to live over there...and they can't leave them in their yard because foxes go in the yard. I have a feeling there must be more babies over there...where there is one...

I'm just glad the weather will get cold soon and the snakes will brumate...because I don't know how many more snakes I can take in!

Just one more......

[EasternGirl]

Lol. I am not addicted to garters. :D

I forgot to add that Ziggy ate again...a plate of tilapia. Still needs to put on weight and I changed everything in his/her tank the other day and of course forgot to check sex again! I'm going to try to feed the new little scrub today!

[EasternGirl]

Tried to feed the new little baby, Athena yesterday. I even went out into the yard and dug until I found the perfect baby earthworms for her. I put her in a deli cup with the wormies...but she wasn't interested. She tried to cuddle with them! I guess she thought they were baby garters like her! She is just so darn cute...she has a way of cocking her little head and looking at me with the cutest expression on her little face that melts my heart!

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I have decided I suck at sexing snakes. And I have no camera to post pics. When I look at the pics in the Evolution and Ecology book...I realize that what I thought concerning males and females was completely backwards. Please post the sexing link again for me. I think Bella might be a boy...thank goodness for Bella Lugosi.

[Invisible Snake]

Alan's Garter Snakes - Maintenance of Garter Snakes (http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/maintenance.htm#Sexing%20snakes) http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[BUSHSNAKE]

the only way to sex a snake of any species is to either probe or pop it. When done correctly by someone with experience this is 100% accurate. Some people are very good at visually sexing snakes but i can say from experience this is not a 100% accurate way of sexing no matter how much experience you have.

[ConcinusMan]

When it comes to garters, i've only ever been wrong when it comes to visually sexing babies. And even then, accuracy is pretty good. I sure as heck am not going to probe a 6 inch baby. I'd rather live with the margin of error. You say popping is 100% accurate but I say bull spit. Just because nothing comes out, doesn't mean it's female, no matter how good at you think you are.

As far as adults go, there's simply no need to probe or pop. One would have to be completely clueless to mistake this for a male:

http://oi49.tinypic.com/raorib.jpg

[Steveo]

As far as adults go, there's simply no need to probe or pop. One would have to be completely clueless to mistake this for a male:

http://oi49.tinypic.com/raorib.jpg

I mistake that as a snake I need to own :p

[mikem]

I sexed my babies by popping. With baby garters it takes just a tiny bit of pressure if you know what you're doing. Get someone to show you how to do it. If done improperly you can hurt the snake. If they pop female, I'll check them a few times at later dates just to be sure. Larger snakes I will probe. Now, I need to put some more effort into genetics. That makes my head hurt, lol :D

[ConcinusMan]

Good. It should, or you're not getting it.:p One of the most common mistakes I see, is the effort to oversimplify that which is not always simple.

[EasternGirl]

I will get some vent pics up of the babies soon now that I have a camera...thanks to Steve. For now...I wanted to finally post a pic of the new rescue eastern, Ziggy....not a great pic but the best I could do given her shyness...

6496

[guidofatherof5]

Hello Ziggy.

[mikem]

Nice to see Ziggy! Awesome that you have a camera now :D

[kueluck]

Is she really that tan/brown?? I love the coloration on her, nice.

[EasternGirl]

Yes..thanks to Steve for giving me one of his old cameras! She is a light tan/olive color...it's interesting. She is much lighter than other easterns I have found around here. She (still not positive about the sex) is very thin still...but loves to eat worms. I am not sure if there is a parasite thing going on or not. I don't have any money for the vet. I just hope she plumps up some.

On another note...everyone has been shedding! Cee Cee had trouble with her shed today. I had to take her out and try to help her with it...I was succeeding in getting pieces off but she was getting really upset and musking all over me. I put her in a shed box for a little bit...I will let her rest some and check tomorrow for any left pieces of shed...I do know that she got the eyecaps, head, neck and tail off...so that is good.

[EasternGirl]

Everyone is shedding...one after the other! Sadie is soaking a lot...so I think she will be next. Today was feeding day...everyone got tilapia. Everyone gobbled the food down except for little Athena. She really concerns me...she may be a case of FTT. She ate a couple of bites of worm a couple of days ago...but not much. Oh...and I forgot...Zeus would not eat because he is about to shed.

I took a nap today and had a horrible dream that a storm hit and it broke the enclosure that Cee Cee and Sadie are in. I was looking all over and I found Sadie but I couldn't find Ceecers anywhere...I was terrified that she was dead. I woke up and had to run to check on her...she came out to great me as if she knew I needed to see her. I don't know what it is about her...but I just have this bond with her...she is everything to me.

[ProXimuS]

I hope Athena starts getting an appetite soon. And sorry about your dream! It's always good to wake up and see that it wasn't real, when you have a bad dream.

[kueluck]

Marnie, is Cee Cee your first? I think your "first" in anything is always more special. Happy to hear it was just a dream.

[EasternGirl]

Actually, she is my second. I found Seeley when he was a baby, stuck in a spider web in my basement...then I found Cee Cee a few months later in my flower bed. Of course...I love Seeley...but he has a different personality. He is very shy and timid. I think Cee Cee is my kindred spirit. She can be sweet...but she has spunk...don't mess with her! :D

I often have dreams in which my animals have escaped in some way and I am trying to find them. I guess I just carry my "worried mom neurosis" into my sleep.

[ProXimuS]

I found Seeley when he was a baby, stuck in a spider web in my basement..


A spider web?!?! He had to have been teeny:p



I often have dreams in which my animals have escaped in some way and I am trying to find them. I guess I just carry my "worried mom neurosis" into my sleep.

I have those pretty often...I actually just had one last night:rolleyes: Maybe it was after reading about your bad dream:p

[EasternGirl]

Sorry about that! Last night I had a dream I was dating one of my ex's again and he had a mullet! Ha ha ha...

Well, Seeley was about 7 inches when I found him...he was on the floor of my basement and his tail was caught up in a web so he couldn't move. We used to have garters under our house...our basement is unfinished...so they would get under the house and into the rafters above the basement and then fall into the basement. Two babies fell right from the same place and landed in the same exact spot. We haven't had anymore for a couple of years though.

[kueluck]

:eek: caught in a spider web!! *shudders at the thougth* All the more reason to KILL spiders.

[EasternGirl]

That's what I'm saying Gail!! Great news! Little Athena ate some worm pieces last night! Thank goodness. I'm concerned about Sadie now though...she has been soaking almost everyday. She has been in her water dish since last night. I'm really convinced she is gravid...but I talked to Steve and he doesn't think she should be. I swear I see baby bumps...any chance she was retaining sperm or something like that, Steve?

[ProXimuS]

Any chance you can get up some pics of Sadie?

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I can get some today.

[EasternGirl]

Here we go...pics of Sadie:

661066116612

[ProXimuS]

Beautiful:D

That being said, in the first pic her eye looks a tiiiny bit bluish to me. Could just be the lighting(or just me:p), but is she about to shed possibly? I also am not super familiar with gravid snakes, but she looks to me about the same girth most of the way through.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, she's a heafty snake but doesn't appear gravid to me.

[guidofatherof5]

Hello Sadie. Your crew says hello also.

[Invisible Snake]

Yeah, she's a heafty snake

She's going to bite and musk you for saying that! :eek:

[guidofatherof5]

She's looking good Marnie.

[Light of Dae]

I agree with Emily, Some of my snakes become water snakes a week or two before they shed.
lol Her eyes did have a hint of cloud. Pictures are a great way to tell who is going to shed next. ... Wonder if it would be a way to see an albinos impending shed ...? I don't have any Albinos so I cannot test that theory.

She is a beautiful big girl. Evenly hefty all the way. not gravid.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks for the input guys...yes, I figured that all of the soaking might be indicating a shed...especially since everyone else has been shedding. Just wanted to double-check about the whole gravid thing.

[ConcinusMan]

Sometimes snakes just like to soak. Sometimes there's no particular reason.

[EasternGirl]

She has been soaking for days though...it seems a bit weird to me. Hopefully she is just getting ready to shed.

[Invisible Snake]

If the temps in your area have been really high that could be another reason why she has been soaking a lot.

[EasternGirl]

It has been hot here...but we always have the air conditioner on pretty high.

[ConcinusMan]

It has been hot here...but we always have the air conditioner on pretty high.

That right there could also be the reason for the soaking. You do know that they remove moisture from the air?

On a side note, not sure what conclusion to draw from it, but while in brumation my snakes are constantly in the water. They don't normally soak at all, or very rarely. Also keep in mind that while air temperatures can fluctuate quickly, if a snake is sitting in water, it will be insulated from such changes. Water temperature would change only very gradually.

[EasternGirl]

Well...I determined that Cee Cee and Sadie have mites...as mentioned in another thread. I have treated all of their stuff...and I am letting them have daily soaks. Now I discovered tonight that Possum and Hermes have them too. I treated a plastic tub to put them in tomorrow...while I treat their tank and let it air out overnight. I also treated aspen to put in their tank...and am treating their plants and hides. Spoiled Ceecers and Sadie got new plants and hides...just don't tell the others.

I checked the babies again...I do not see any mites...but I am going to treat some aspen and put it in their enclosure for good measure. I did not see any mites on Seeley or Sammy...but I will probably treat some substrate for them too just in case. I didn't see any on Ziggy or Athena either.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep after them Marnie.

[EasternGirl]

Darn mites!!! I hate them I hate them I hate them!!!!

[Invisible Snake]

Good luck Marnie!

This all started with Bella right?

[EasternGirl]

Yep. Bella from an expo. Mike got a concinnus there that had parasites.

In other news...Cee Cee has lost her friggin mind! She just attacked me...bit me several times with an open mouth...drew blood. She has never bitten me...she usually only false strikes when she is being defensive...but she is really angry with me for some reason...she is even striking at me through the glass. Giving me the death stare. She had something in her eye and I had to grab her and get it out...that might have done it. She might also be angry about all the daily soaking...she really hates swimming...and all of the changes in her environment.

[Light of Dae]

LOL sorry, gotta laugh... Lost her mind.. no, Pissed off, yes. I think she realized that her false striking wasn't enough n it was time to let you know SHE HATES SWIMMING lol

[guidofatherof5]

Give her hell Cee Cee.:D

[Invisible Snake]

It definitely has something to do with the daily soakings, I had a docile boa who was a bit constipated so I started giving her daily soakings for a week and after the 3rd soaking she became extremely hostile striking at me whenever she saw anyone get close to her tank. After that I stopped with the daily soakings and I had to cover the front of her enclosure with a towel because I was afraid she was going injure herself with the numerous daily strikings at the glass. After a week she finally calmed down.

[snake man]

No bath!

[EasternGirl]

Lol...yeah...she strikes at me through the glass and bangs her nose up against it. Now, I have pissed her off even more because I thought she had a retained shed around her eye and I had to take her out and mess with it while she was flailing all over and musking the crap out of me. She is seriously ticked off. Everytime I get near the tank, she coils up like a rattler ready to lunge and strike. I have bite marks on my fingers and she is foaming at the chops ready to go at me again!!

[ProXimuS]

Sorry to hear all this...I can't really help but laugh at all the comments too, though:p I hope she'll calm down soon!

[EasternGirl]

She's doing a little better. I purchased some Mite Off...the stuff that you can actually put on the snake for mites. I noticed that the mites seem to be gone from the surrounding area...but they are still on the girls. Cee Cee is probably pissy because she feels like crap from the mites. The Mite Off is all natural so that it doesn't harm the snake. I will put some on the girls today. I also treated everything in the enclosure a second time.

Sadie and Ziggy both shed. I'm glad Ziggy shed...because maybe that explains his behavior the other day. Maybe he will feel better now. Maybe Sadie shedding took some of the mites off of her...so maybe she feels better too.

[guidofatherof5]

Shedding takes all the mites off.

[ConcinusMan]

Yep. Bella from an expo. Mike got a concinnus there that had parasites.

Mites are parasites.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I think she meant internal parasites. Mites are external parasites like you richard haha.
I had to man it was just too funny to pass up.:p IM JUST KIDDING AROUND.


mites are parasites..

[ConcinusMan]

Well, it was probably WC and I'm pretty sure all WC concinnus' have internal parasites so it doesn't surprise me. In most cases its not that big of a deal, but a heavy load tape worms and/or liver flukes...

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I got some snakes in about two years ago that had an amoeba infestation and i don't wish that on anyone. They appeared healthy and continued to eat but their feces looked and smelled horrible and they just kept losing weight and then towards the later stages they started passing blood. I managed to save a few by treating them with flagyl. The thing is these guys that catch these snakes for resell alot of times don't care about the animals so they will throw tons of them in the same tank so parasites and diseases spread to all of them.

[EasternGirl]

Well, Sadie still had mites on her after the shed. I have treated everything in the tank twice now. I don't know what the heck is going on. I just put the Mite Off on both girls. I even bought new stuff for the enclosure and treated it before putting it in. I have treated and changed the substrate twice. What the heck???

[kibakiba]

Quarentine them in plastic tubs, maybe that'll help keep everything isolated.

[EasternGirl]

That's an idea. I'm going to see if this Mite Off stuff does anything. Of course, Cee Cee starting soaking right after I put it on her...so I will have to reapply it.

On another topic, Ziggy seems to be doing a bit better since she shed, but now I am concerned about little baby Athena. She doesn't look good. She is just lying around and slithering slowly...kind of sideways...and her tongue is flicking very slowly. I got her to eat a bite of food just now...but then she just laid there in the dish next to the food. I'm not sure she is going to make it...she is so tiny and thin. This sucks...she is so cute with her big eyes.

[Lisa4john]

I'm so sorry for Athena. That's why I was afraid of getting a baby... So sad to loss them, and I learned very quickly just how fast you can get attached to the little guys. God bless.

[kibakiba]

That's what happened with Pumpkin. He started slowing down quite a bit.

[EasternGirl]

Well...she is alive this morning and slithering around a bit more. She ate all of her worms. She goes back and forth...it's just hard to tell at this point. We'll just have to wait and see.

[kueluck]

I hope Athena keeps going in the healthy/happy direction. I hate these kind of roller coasters, they can drive a person nuts!! Also hope you beat this mite issue.

[snake man]

I also hope everything works out.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks guys...I hope she and Ziggy both continue getting healthier. I put the Mite Off on the girls again. I did not see any live mites crawling on my hands this time...just a couple of dead ones...so hopefully it's working.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee just bit me again...twice! I told her she needs to pack up her stuff and go and stay with Steve until her attitude changes. :D I really think it's my red fingernails...she kept nosing around my hand like she was trying to decide what it was and then she would pull back and strike real quickly and bite me. Drew blood in two places on my thumb. Miss Attitude!!!

[guidofatherof5]

She would be welcome here at the Ranch. She could buddy up with Enforcer and Tourette.

[EasternGirl]

Interestingly, my whole thumb is itching and turning red now...guess it's that reaction to venom that you can sometimes get with garters.

[kueluck]

Sounds like someone needs a time out :p

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like someone needs a time out :p

or some extra food. Give her hell Cee Cee.:D

[snake man]

Put her in the time out tub.

[EasternGirl]

And snakie in the basement makes 13. Found a young one in my basement yesterday! In the exact same spot I find all of the garters in the basement...there must be a hole in the rafters that they fall through in that spot. Anyway...he could be young or he could just be small like Seeley...he looks exactly like Seeley..stub tail and all. In fact, at first...I thought maybe Seeley had gotten out and managed to get down the basement stairs. Anyway...he seems very healthy. I need to start finding homes for some of these easterns. So...I have the new guy...or gal...but I think it's a male...who is about 10 or 11 inches long...I'm guessing. I'm also guessing he is about a year old at most. I have Ziggy...who I believe is female...she is about 2 feet long...and Athena, the little baby. If all of these snakes turn out to be healthy...I need to find homes for them. So if you are interested in an eastern...PM me. Just be aware that it will be a few months before I can make sure they are healthy and ready to go to a new home.

[kueluck]

Maybe THAT’S why Cee Cee is all bent outta shape with you. You keep bringing competition into HER home.

[RedSidedSPR]

Cee Cee just bit me again...twice! I told her she needs to pack up her stuff and go and stay with Steve until her attitude changes. :D I really think it's my red fingernails...she kept nosing around my hand like she was trying to decide what it was and then she would pull back and strike real quickly and bite me. Drew blood in two places on my thumb. Miss Attitude!!!

Awesome.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee will actually look at my fingers through the glass and strike at them. She sniffs at my hand as if I have food in it everytime I put my hands in the tank. I guess it might be time to change the color of my nails. Can you imagine? Changing your nail color to please a spoiled snake!

The new snake is doing well. Ziggy and Athena are still hanging in there. Seeley and Sammy had all of their stuff treated for mites and were put back in their home last night. No signs of mites on Hermes and Possum anymore...but Cee Cee and Sadie still have mites on them. I don't see any in the tank...but I still see them on my hands after holding both girls. I have treated their stuff a couple of times...changed substrate and put in treated substrate several times and sprayed both girls with Mite Off. I don't know what the heck is going on with them.

[guidofatherof5]

Wipe Cee Cee and Sadie down with wet paper towels to remove some of the mites. Bag up the paper towel and tie the bag. Get it out of the house. Better yet freeze it before you throw it out.
You can even wipe those two down with some mineral oil/olive oil to kill some of the mites.;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Burn the buggers.

[EasternGirl]

Oh Jesse... Steve, both girls keep soaking and I keep applying the Mite Off. I guess I'm just going to have to order the provent-a-mite if this continues.

[guidofatherof5]

It will continue. Sending Provent-a-mite in the mail today.

[mikem]

Yea, you'll be wiping them off forever. Hope the provent-a-mite works for you!

[kueluck]

The fingernail question.................that's a rhetorical question right? Since we all know the answer is yes.

[Light of Dae]

It will continue. Sending Provent-a-mite in the mail today.

Awesome, "Steve-The ever thoughtful n helpful" For the love of snakes! :)

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome, "Steve-The ever thoughtful n helpful" For the love of snakes! :)

And the hate of mites. They are killers.

[EasternGirl]

Steve just plain rocks! He is always there to help me when I have no money and need something. Steve...you are the true definition of a friend. :)

[EasternGirl]

The new boy...I think he ate a couple of bites of worm last night. Ziggy is still terrified of people. He loves to eat his worms...but he jumps clear across the tank if I put my hand in there. The girls are crazy eaters! I have to take them out to feed them so they don't attack each other. I had no free feed tubs since my snake rescue seems to be up and running...I had to take each girl out and lay her on a towel to eat. Both girls were going crazy trying to bite anything that moved...in a total feeding frenzy, thrashing around and striking at their pinks. My girls....;).

[EasternGirl]

I am now up to 14. Found another one in the basement in the exact same spot...a little bigger than the last one...but this one is a biter. I now have another bandaid on my finger. Fiesty little bugger. I am out of room. I think these last two will be taken to the state park/creek and relocated. Ziggy has to stay because I still think she/he is sick. Athena, of course, will stay because she is just a tiny little thing.

[RedSidedSPR]

You gotta start charging them room fee's.

[EasternGirl]

Seriously. I am out of tubs for keeping new quarantined snakes and for using as feed tubs. I think I am going to keep that cute little new guy though. He is a sweetie. I'm thinking about naming him Pretty Boy...think it will give him a complex?

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm sure.

[EasternGirl]

I have decided to name the new little snake I'm going to keep, Peanut. I will call him Pretty Boy when no one is around though...lol. Snapper...the biter...is hiding all the time. I really think that he and Ziggy need to be released...but it is starting to get cold around here especially at night. Plus...Ziggy's health still concerns me. I got him to eat some worms with vitamins on them last night. Hoping that will help. Anyone want a fiesty little eastern that likes to bite? He's just scared...he actually hasn't tried to bite me when I stick my hand in the tub to check on him. I need to find homes for some of these snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

I am now up to 14. Found another one in the basement in the exact same spot...a little bigger than the last one...but this one is a biter. I now have another bandaid on my finger. Fiesty little bugger. I am out of room. I think these last two will be taken to the state park/creek and relocated.

I wouldn't do that. Those snakes know where they want to spend the winter. They follow scent trails back to the same den every winter. If you relocate them, they will likely wander around lost and end up not finding a den this winter. Relocating now will just doom them.

[EasternGirl]

I think I have decided to keep them for the winter and then try to find homes for them or put them outside. What am I supposed to do though if the area where I found them isn't really safe for them?

[Invisible Snake]

With limited resources, sometimes its best to just let nature take its course.

[mikem]

What am I supposed to do though if the area where I found them isn't really safe for them?

You're never going to find a safe place. Even if they avoid contact with humans, garters aren't that high up on the food chain. :(

[guidofatherof5]

You're never going to find a safe place. Even if they avoid contact with humans, garters aren't that high up on the food chain. :(

but in our homes they become the apex predator.

[mikem]

Indeed, Steve ;)

[EasternGirl]

Yes...but I think they would be much safer in White Clay Creek State Park....there are areas that are very remote where people don't trample through all the time and there is a creek running along it. Wouldn't that be safer than in my yard just sitting around waiting for the lawn mower to run them over or a crow to grab them? Also...since it is currently 48 degrees outside...do you think I should keep them until spring?

[EasternGirl]

Update...Little Joe shed last night. Just looked in and Seeley's eyes are clouded over. I also think Cee Cee is heading toward shed mode. These guys are shedding a lot. Must have to do with the whole mite thing. I have not seen any live mites on anyone in the last couple of days, though. I will take the girls out later and check them more closely.

[EasternGirl]

Update...Little Joe shed last night. Just looked in and Seeley's eyes are clouded over. I also think Cee Cee is heading toward shed mode. These guys are shedding a lot. Must have to do with the whole mite thing. I have not seen any live mites on anyone in the last couple of days, though. I will take the girls out later and check them more closely.

Oh...and Snapper and Peanut have decided they like to snuggle up in the hide together. They are probably siblings since they are around the same size and I found them both in my basement. I need to confirm sex. They better not mate. Question: how to I provide warmth to the snakes that I have in tubs and the baby in the plastic Kritter Keeper?

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I tried to edit my post and it would not save and repost...so I cut and copied to a new post and then it posted the blank edit page...???

[Invisible Snake]

Yes...but I think they would be much safer in White Clay Creek State Park....there are areas that are very remote where people don't trample through all the time and there is a creek running along it. Wouldn't that be safer than in my yard just sitting around waiting for the lawn mower to run them over or a crow to grab them? Also...since it is currently 48 degrees outside...do you think I should keep them until spring?

I think you should keep them until spring, it might be too late for them to find a good den for brumation. Also I agree with Richard, I have read and seen articles/shows discussing relocating venomous snakes and they say if you move them a great distance (I think it was over 10 miles?) those snakes will more than likely not survive. It's like if someone were to magically pick you up and place you Pakistan, a place I'm assuming you've never been, would you be able to find shelter and food there? (rough analogy I know)

[Invisible Snake]

Question: how to I provide warmth to the snakes that I have in tubs and the baby in the plastic Kritter Keeper?

I use an UTH properly insulated to provide heat for snakes I keep in quarantine in critter keepers.

[EasternGirl]

I agree too...I just don't know what to do about putting them back in my yard. The one time I tried to leave a snake in my yard...I found it dead a week later...something had taken a big bite out of her neck. I have never forgiven myself for leaving her out there. Plus, the snakes my neighbors have been bringing me seem sick. I have an idea that the very unpleasant woman who lives in between us and loves her tacky landscaping, probably puts some kind of poison out for unwanted visitors.

Also...any advice about warming up the snakes in plastic tubs now that it is getting cold?

[Invisible Snake]

Also...any advice about warming up the snakes in plastic tubs now that it is getting cold?

You can use a heat pad if you have 1.

For the rescues you have found you can try bringing them back to 100% health and then offer them "free to good homes" or you can check with any local animal rescues to see if they take in snakes.

[EasternGirl]

I just saw that post Invis.Snake. How do you insulate them? I do know that they make small UTHs for plastic containers. Maybe I will get a few of them.

[EasternGirl]

Well, the reason I want to start a snake rescue is because the closest rescue that takes snakes is an hour and a half drive from here in the middle of the state. I do know that rescues relocate too...so it wouldn't be any different than me relocating them. I have mentioned on this thread a couple of times that I am looking for someone to take them. Maybe I will post in the adoption thread.

[EasternGirl]

Funny feeding story about the girls: I was feeding the babies and the girls, of course, smelled the worms. They started going crazy. I was going to wait to feed them today. I saw that they had gotten some aspen in their water dish and went in to get it out. They both went nuts and started attacking my fingers! Sadie slithered up into the water dish as I was picking it up and dove in to look for food and started trying to eat my thumb...just as Cee Cee was slithering up my arm going for my hand! Crazy females! I ended up feeding them to calm them down. :eek::D

[ProXimuS]

Sadie and Cee Cee are a funny team:p

[ConcinusMan]

I just saw that post Invis.Snake. How do you insulate them? I do know that they make small UTHs for plastic containers. Maybe I will get a few of them.

Too damn hot. I use these. Just the right amount of heat. Also cheaper and larger than reptile UTH's. I highly recommend these. You can heat more than one tub. Use a long tub such as a plastic shoe box available at dollar tree. Use a hot metal object to melt plenty of ventilation holes and only put about 1/4 of one end of the tub on the heat pad. Be very careful and set it up and monitor the temperature before putting snakes in it. Also, it only needs to be on about 10 hours a day. Turn it off at night unless temperature regularly falls below 60 at night.

This heat pad: Amazon.com: Growers Supply Company GSHM 9-by-19-1/2-Inch Small Seedling Heat Mat: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002LVU4Y8/?tag=hyprod-20&hvadid=15473268099&hvpos=1o1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=866358443391931856&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&ref=asc_df_B002LVU4Y8)

[EasternGirl]

You're saying that the small UTHs made for plastic containers are too hot? Okay...I will look into getting some of the ones you recommended.

I was worried about little Athena...because she was hiding a lot and not very active...I thought for sure I would find her dead yesterday as I dug through the substrate to look for her...but instead I found a very blue eyed little girl. She is just getting ready to shed. :) Seeley just shed...a perfect shed as always. That boy has never once had an imperfect shed, even with his stub tail. Little Joe shed too. I think Ceecers is gearing up for a shed next.

It's funny because Cee Cee has gotten more and more irritated with me over this whole mite business. All the soaking and moving around and being sprayed down with the Mite Off has gotten her quite ticked at me. But Sadie seems to understand that I am helping her and it seems to be building trust with us...she hasn't tried to bite me in a while.

The new little guy, Snapper, isn't trying to bite me anymore. I suspect that he and Peanut are siblings...same size, both found in my basement around the same time. They love to cuddle together under a hide I put in their tub. They both seem very healthy and inquisitive. I want to find Snapper a home and keep Peanut and hopefully put him in with Seeley and Sammy when he gets just a bit bigger and I'm sure he is healthy. But I feel bad separating them. If someone wants to take both of them...I would consider letting them both go to a good home. I think I might have to keep little Athena though...she has become my little baby girl.

[kueluck]

“I think I might have to keep little Athena tough...she has become my little baby girl” :eek: You better not let Cee Cee hear you say that!! You're just ASKIN' to get bit.

[EasternGirl]

Rofl....Cee Cee and I are having mother/daughter issues right now. She has become an insolent teenager. I tried to pet her last night and she went to bite me again. I don't know what her deal is.

[chris-uk]

Rofl....Cee Cee and I are having mother/daughter issues right now. She has become an insolent teenager. I tried to pet her last night and she went to bite me again. I don't know what her deal is.

I wish I had a bitey snake. Only two of mine have even tried, and that was during feeding when my finger probably had a lingering fishy smell.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I like I snake with attitude...but it does get old after a while...having to fight with the snake when you want to change the water or take the snake out. There are times when I just don't feel like being bit repeatedly.

Anyway...everyone is shedding. One of the new snakes...I think it was Peanut, shed last night...Possum shed, Little Joe shed, two babies and Cee Cee are all getting ready to shed. I have been trying to wait for Cee Cee to shed before I move Sadie and her into a treated tub and treat their tank for mites again. Cee Cee is just so skiddish when she is about to shed...I hate sticking her in a tub. But, if she doesn't shed today...she's going to have to get moved anyway. The good thing is last time I held Sadie, I did not see any mites on her. I need to treat their tank, re-treat the babies' tank, and check all of the other snakes again. I really hate mites.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, I like I snake with attitude...but it does get old after a while...

I was mildly disappointed when one of my snakes stopped biting me. Lol

[EasternGirl]

Ha ha...I can believe it Jesse!

[RedSidedSPR]

Well when all my snakes are nice, you gotta have at least one mean one. It's logical.

[Light of Dae]

Well, I like I snake with attitude...but it does get old after a while...having to fight with the snake when you want to change the water or take the snake out. There are times when I just don't feel like being bit repeatedly.

Anyway...everyone is shedding. One of the new snakes...I think it was Peanut, shed last night...Possum shed, Little Joe shed, two babies and Cee Cee are all getting ready to shed. . I really hate mites.

Lol other time you feel like "Hey, I wanna get bit repeatedly... CeeCee want a bath?" LOL

Glad to hear everyone is shedding.

*shivers*
I couldn't imagine having mites.

[EasternGirl]

Well, she bit me again. It's become her routine. I put my hand in...and she looks over and does a little quick strike, bite, and release...every time! She always draws a little blood. Little stinker! The girls are in their temporary tank. Treated their tank with the provent-a-mite that Steve sent me last night. It's been airing out since then. Getting ready to move them back in in a little bit. I'm sure Cee Cee will bite me when I go to move her...lol.

Everyone had tilapia for a meal yesterday...everyone except for the new yearlings who are still refusing food. Well, and Hermes...he only ate a couple of bites...he's probably going to shed soon. The babies were food frenzy monsters. They would eat every day as much as I would let them...if I let them. Little fat piggies! Ziggy wants to eat all the time but he isn't gaining weight. I am thinking parasites...maybe? I might have to call the vet and see if they will look at a stool sample.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Try wearing rubber gloves for a while, they bite and let go, as they do not like the rubber...after a while they give up biting, also gives you more confidence to pick them up as you know it will catch the rubber not your skin, usually only needed as a temporary solution

[Invisible Snake]

I've used a brand new pair of those yellow dish washing gloves to pick up an adult garter I have who was newly acquired and very defensive. She stopped striking at me but it could be she just got used to me and acclimated to her new home.

[ConcinusMan]

Well when all my snakes are nice, you gotta have at least one mean one. It's logical.

Yeah, but if I want a "pissy" attitude snake, I don't want a garter for that. I'd rather have a large gopher or rat snake for that. Those are fun.:D

[ConcinusMan]

I've used a brand new pair of those yellow dish washing gloves to pick up an adult garter I have who was newly acquired and very defensive. She stopped striking at me but it could be she just got used to me and acclimated to her new home.

I think what it is, is the more you let them bite you, the more they learn it is futile. Some just learn it more quickly than others.

[RedSidedSPR]

Also logical.

[EasternGirl]

Well...I don't know what her problem is. She never used to bite me. She would occasionally false strike at me if she was scared. Now she does it all the time. Now...usually what happens is, I will put my hand in to reach for her and she will start striking....she will get a bite in when I go to pick her up...and then I will say "Alright, that's enough of that crap! No bites!"...and just go ahead and grab her and she will stop. Once I'm holding her...she doesn't try it anymore. Sadie used to do the exact same thing. She would bite at my fingers as my hand reached for her...but once I was holding her...she would stop. Now she really doesn't try it anymore...except for times when she can smell food...and usually if I say "no bites!" and just grab her quickly...she will knock it off too. Silly snakes!

[EasternGirl]

I just spent the last hour trying to perform an emergency shedectomy on little baby Athena. I realized that she had a badly retained shed...and that is why she has been having trouble moving, gasping for air, and refusing food the last couple of feedings. Looking at her...I'm not sure if she ever shed since she was born. I had her in a shed box yesterday...but it didn't work. So this morning...I had to manually start peeling the shed off her very tiny body. I had to take a pin to get the shed started...the poor thing was biting me, doing death rolls...gasping. I managed to get most of it off...I got off both eye caps and I think I got the majority off around her neck and face...I hope she can breathe better now. She is so tiny...I just hope I didn't hurt her by squishing her while I was trying to remove the shed...but it had to be done. Now I just wait and see if she survives. Poor little girl.

[EasternGirl]

I think she may have eaten a bite or two of worm pieces. Everyone send positive thoughts my way that this little girl makes it...she has really stolen my heart with her big eyes. On a another note, the yearlings are not eating yet. They seem happy enough...they are very skiddish still, but love to curl up together under one hide they have, and they love to poke their heads out and stretch out their necks and look at me. I just need to get them to eat.

[RedSidedSPR]

Nice, I'm sure she's fine. Good luck with 'em

[EasternGirl]

Thanks. Well, she did eat a few bites of worm...so that is a good sign. But I know I didn't get all of the shed off...it is really hard to see where to get a hold of it...where the actual shed is...she is so tiny and thin that her body is wrinkly in itself...I will give her another warm bath later tonight. I'm going to leave her alone for a bit because I know it was a lot of stress on her.

[RedSidedSPR]

Hold her in a warm damp cloth and let her slither through it, worked for me.

Make sure the tip of the tail is off too, only other part that's actually threatening.

[Light of Dae]

Agree'd on letting her slither through warm wet towel. I used paper towel cause then you can see the shed pieces on it better. Also if you can't get it... put her in a sealed clear container with warm wet paper towels n leave her half way on a heat mat for over night. then in the morning rub her with a paper towel and it'll come off very well.

[EasternGirl]

I have tried and tried to get it all of you guys...she is so tiny and fragile. Everytime I put her in the shed box, she starts gasping for air. I managed to get more off the tail tonight...she is a mess. You can barely see where the shed is and it doesn't seem to want to peel off. I'm just hoping I got the majority of it off. I will keep giving her soaks but I have to give her breaks because she is getting really stressed. I don't think I can leave her in the box because of her trouble breathing.

On another note...we did say that it is safe for albinos to be under a regular bulb as long as it isn't UV right? I'm concerned about Little Joe. He is in with the other babies and I wonder if the light is bad for him...I use a 40 watt regular household bulb.

[guidofatherof5]

It happens every once in a great while when a young snake will cross my path and it seems the deck is stacked against the little scrub.
Eating problems, shedding problems, etc. I will fight hard for the little one and sometimes I loose them in the end.
Hang in there Marnie.
All this experience your getting will help in the future and pay dividends.;)

[Light of Dae]

I'd say don't let her dry out in between or on her 'breaks' keep her moist and warm. It will help the old skin be loose n little more flexible. When it dries out it would be shrinking n constricting

[chris-uk]

Athena sounds like my Bethan from last year. When you're helping her shed if you have her in a bowl of warm water in good light it might help you spot the edges of the retained bits of shed. Getting those bits of shed off is a different matter.
Hope she comes out better than Bethan.

[EasternGirl]

Yes Chris...I was thinking of you and Bethan when I was working on her shed yesterday. The weird thing is...I also thought it would be easier to see her shed pieces when she was wet...but it actually seems like I can't see the edges at all when she is wet. And I agree, Michelle, that she should be kept moist...I tried to make her a moist hide...but she got inside of it and couldn't find her way out and was panicking! What a mess. any other suggestions for keeping her environment moist? She is in a small critter keeper with carefresh...that she likes to burrow under. I am out of moss...and won't be able to get any today. I think I got most of the shed off though...probably not the end of the tail...but I am more worried about her breathing than anything else...and I think I got the areas that were restricting her breathing off. I think it's just going to be one of those things where either she is going to make it or she isn't...I wish I could put her in with the other babies so she has company but she is so tiny I'm afraid of the size difference.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey Marnie I hope Athena makes it. If possible can you take pictures of where she has the retained shed? I know the two of you extremely stressed by the situation but maybe it would help give us insight to the situation.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I will try to get a pic up in the next couple of days. My son has been sick, so I'm preoccupied with that right now. I did buy some moss and put a big pile of moist moss in with Athena. Maybe that will help. And, she ate again...so that's good.

Steve...I packed up all of Cee Cee's things and she is on a Greyhound bus right now on her way to Steve's Garter Boot Camp. Lol. She did it again! This time...if I could have gotten it on video and played it back in slow mo...it would have made a great video. She went at me a couple of times and then she got serious and lunged through the air across the tank and struck hard and fast...so hard, she left two teeth marks and a bruise on my thumb. It looked like a rattlesnake lunging and striking at someone. I am a bit fed up with her biting me, but it was just so cool, I was actually pretty impressed. Plus, I figure...she has always been upfront about being a snake. It isn't as if she pretended to be a fluffy little bunny when I first found her. If you are going to have a snake...deal with getting bitten. But even so...I took her out and told her we were going to have a chat. Her answer to that: "No, we are not...but I will empty my bladder and bowels all over the floor". She won that one. This whole thing is weird...she never used to bite or even musk me. Now she musks me if I pick her up, bites me if I put my hands in the tank...and the thing with her urinating and defecating all over...was exactly like the time at the vet when she was terrified...her cloaca was turning inside out. She was terrified. Why is she suddenly terrified of me???

[chris-uk]

Have a think, is there anything at all that you changed that could have triggered CeeCee changing her behaviour?
I know she's a handful to hold right now, but is there any sign of an infection or illness? Perhaps she's just feeling vulnerable and hence much more defensive?

[ConcinusMan]

Let's not forget that failure to shed, or difficulties shedding especially when it becomes "normal" for a particular snake, is usually a symptom of very serious health issues. Not necessarily caused by bad husbandry or envirionment though.

[EasternGirl]

To reply to Richard...since Athena is a baby and I just got her...I have no idea if this is something that will be an ongoing issue. But she doesn't seem completely healthy either...so yes, she could be ill.

Chris...I have been trying to figure that out. I mean, she is in with Sadie now...has been for several months. But she and Sadie get along very well...love to cuddle and so forth. It's interesting, because when she sees my face up near the glass looking at her...she has that look on her face like "Hi...I know you"...and comes to see me and stuff. But when I put my hand in...she acts like it's an alien and attacks it. There is the whole mite thing that has been going on...and usually when I take her out...it's to soak her or put mite stuff on her...maybe she is just angry about that...and associating my hands and being removed from her enclosure with unpleasant experiences.

But I tell you this...I am starting to feel like I should have a reality show as some crazy hillbilly snake catcher. I have been bit so many times in the past 24 hours. Just now, I tried to take the new yearlings out to sex them and Snapper started biting me.

[kueluck]

Sounds like they've been taking notes and watching Cee Cee.

[Light of Dae]

she has that look on her face like "Hi...I know you"...and comes to see me and stuff. But when I put my hand in...she acts like it's an alien and attacks it. There is the whole mite thing that has been going on...and usually when I take her out...it's to soak her or put mite stuff on her...maybe she is just angry about that...and associating my hands and being removed from her enclosure with unpleasant experiences.

But I tell you this...I am starting to feel like I should have a reality show as some crazy hillbilly snake catcher. I have been bit so many times in the past 24 hours. Just now, I tried to take the new yearlings out to sex them and Snapper started biting me.

First off. I think you've got it nailed. She has come to see your hands mean bath n we've been over this Marnie ... CeeCee don't like swimming!!


Secondly .... You named him "Snapper" ...He now has a duty to live up to his name.

[EasternGirl]

Well...lol...I was at my doctor yesterday and my thumb was bruised up and I had little bites on my hands. My doc gave me a shot for my rotator cuff issues and he was like "big pinch" as he was giving the shot. I said "Yeah, I've been getting bit by snakes a lot lately...a shot doesn't really phase me". He says "Getting bit by snakes a lot???!!!". I say "Yes, I have fourteen snakes and some of them bite", "Don't you remember me telling you about my snakes?". He says "I think I would remember fourteen snakes!", "Do they call you snake lady?", "Don't they have a name for that...like something ...tologist?". I laughed..."Herpetoculturist". "Don't worry", I said, "They are garter snakes"..."I'm not getting constantly bit by gigantic reticulated pythons or anything". :D

[Lisa4john]

Lol! It's funny some of the reactions you get when you say you have snakes. :D

[EasternGirl]

Yep...he actually had one of the better reactions. He doesn't remember me telling him about having snakes before, but when I did...he told me snakes were good pets...he's a very sciency type...he had lots of lizards and turtles when he was younger...doesn't like fluffy animals. Usually people say "Ewwww...I hate snakes" and make a shiver gesture. Speaking of, my teacher for the class I am writing the research paper...I was showing her pics of my snakes the other day and she said that she had to admit that growing up on a ranch in Texas, she was taught to kill snakes when she saw them. But now, because of me...she will not kill snakes. She said she will see a snake and say "Marnie said you are a friend...so I'm gonna let you go". One more small step in getting our message out there!

Oh and on another note...Sadie is now trying to bite me. She is getting ready to shed. I thought maybe she was just joining in on all the snake fun. :D

[chris-uk]

Just another thought....

Have you changed anything "about you" recently? Something that makes you smell different and more biteable? Perhaps a change of perfume or soap.

[Lisa4john]

I think you must taste like dessert, they really love to munch on you. It's great that you are able to change the mindset of those around you. I am a recent convert myself. I never killed them, but I never liked them either. Now, I'm learning all I can. :) Garters are still the only snake I like though. ;) Hmmm... I wonder what they would do if you came in when garlic on you or onion... just a thought.

[guidofatherof5]

I think you must taste like dessert, they really love to munch on you. It's great that you are able to change the mindset of those around you. I am a recent convert myself. I never killed them, but I never liked them either. Now, I'm learning all I can. :) Garters are still the only snake I like though. ;) Hmmm... I wonder what they would do if you came in when garlic on you or onion... just a thought.

It doesn't get any better then that.;)

[EasternGirl]

Well...it's hard to tell. I wear different perfumes all the time. Use different soaps all the time. They could possibly smell other animals on me...but I have always had other animals. And it really isn't as though she is coming over to me and taking the time to smell me and then bite...the minute my hands go in, she is on the defense. I thought maybe it could have something to do with the red nail polish I've been wearing...but I have had my nails done before too. Tonight Little Joe was hanging off my finger...mouth attached...but that was because I was feeding him a worm piece...lol.

[guidofatherof5]

Is this a top entry enclosure? If so, is it a slide top?
If it is you could make the side the bottom so that the lid slides up.
Then you will have a front opening enclosure, that might make them more calm.
Just an idea.

[ConcinusMan]

Lol! It's funny some of the reactions you get when you say you have snakes. :D

Try telling people that you sell them. And that they're garter snakes. They can't believe it. Next thing I know, people are bringing me every random snake they find and I have to make them take it back. Then I have to explain that it doesn't quite work that way.

[RedSidedSPR]

Is this a top entry enclosure? If so, is it a slide top?
If it is you could make the side the bottom so that the lid slides up.
Then you will have a front opening enclosure, that might make them more calm.
Just an idea.

I never thought of that.......

[Lisa4john]

Good idea, do you have a hard time with bedding fall out that way though?


Is this a top entry enclosure? If so, is it a slide top?
If it is you could make the side the bottom so that the lid slides up.
Then you will have a front opening enclosure, that might make them more calm.
Just an idea.

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, sometimes. You also need to be very careful that the lid seals at the bottom and there are no spaces for snake to escape or get caught it. I have a glue gun with black gun stick so filling the areas look nice. The glue is harmless when dry.

[EasternGirl]

The enclosure has front sliding glass doors. So...that isn't the problem. I don't think she realizes that my hands are connected to the rest of me. Because it's odd...she will come to the glass if I put my face up to the tank and give me the sweetest look...she always comes to see me. But if I put my hand in...she goes after it. Day before yesterday, I was showing her my hand next to my face outside the tank...and I swear she had this look on her face like "Wait a minute...that scary thing I don't like goes with the face that I recognize?"...it was weird.

Oh I have already experienced the issue of everyone bringing me snakes. I have become the "snake person" in our neighborhood and most of our community. People think I'm a bit eccentric...but that is nothing new. And now, if someone finds a snake, they bring it to my house. I heard people saying that I have a snake rescue at one of my son's baseball games. I guess my rescue is up and running whether I am ready for it or not!

[mikem]

I'd like to do a rescue of sorts, but space is limited for me and I really only want to take on snakes I'm interested in working with. What's the plan if someone brings you a snake that's not a garter?

[Lisa4john]

Put a sign on the door, "I don't do snakes... well garters, that's another story. I don't do anything with or know anything about other breeds." True for me anyway... ;)

[EasternGirl]

Well you know...I actually hadn't thought of that...and as far as I am concerned, my rescue is not actually up and running...which I am trying to tell people. When I am done nursing school...I will get a new house or I will have my basement done so that I can have space to have a real rescue. Then, people can bring me any snake they want and I will advertise that I will go to people's homes/yards to remove unwanted snakes. I will make it clear that I do not work with venomous. If someone were to bring me a venomous snake, I would relocate it to one of the many parks/wildlife areas around here. If someone were to bring me a snake that was not a garter now...I guess I would have to assess the situation. If they found it somewhere where it could be released back into that area and it wasn't cold, I would take it back to where it was found. If the snake needed to be kept inside until the cold weather passed, I would either take it...or take it to a lady I know that does wildlife rescue.

[EasternGirl]

So it seems that I taste delicious or something. Now not only is Cee Cee biting me, but Sadie took a strike at me, and Snapper bit me again...and Peanut took a nice bite of me the other day...and he has never bitten before. Either I am very yummy or I have really pissed off my snakes somehow. Sadie shed a nice perfect shed the other day. Ziggy is not doing well at all. She is breathing out of the side of her mouth...with an open mouth...and pretty lethargic. I put a heat lamp on her and increased the humidity in her tank. She seems to really like the heat...but I am not very hopeful. I hate feeling helpless like this. I simply cannot afford to take her to the vet.

[EasternGirl]

I have a bunch of new pics I would like to share:

7286 Zeus getting ready to shed, sitting in his beloved skull hide...

7287 Pretty Bella

7288 Nothing as cute as a baby head poking out of the substrate....

07289 Except for maybe a baby head poking out of some moss...

7290 A Ziggy face...

[ProXimuS]

Super cute! Is Zeus one of Cee Cee's babies? Ziggy looks nice and perky in that picture too:)

[EasternGirl]

7291 Little Joe and Perseus

7292 A Perseus face...

7293 Bella basking while relaxing on the stat probe...

7294 My beautiful biting Cee Cee...

7295 Sadie and Cee Cee cuddling...

[EasternGirl]

7296 The Sammy

7297 A cute Sammy face

7298 And finally, not a great pic of Sammy but one in which you can see his beautiful red radix coloring....

[EasternGirl]

Yes, Zeus and Perseus are Cee Cee's babies. The only other living baby was Ariadne...she lives with Mike now. I think I have figured out that Ziggy has some retained shed on her face...which may be blocking her nares and that is why she is mouth breathing. But I have no idea what to do about it....handling her stresses her too much. I put some moist moss in, in the hope that it will help to get it off. I might have to put her in a shed box...but I don't know if she can handle the stress.

[Lisa4john]

Cee Cee looks so innocent... Are you sure she's the biter? :eek: She hides it so well. ;)

[EasternGirl]

I know...she always gives me this cute face when she looks out of her enclosure at me...then I put my hand in and she gets this mean look on her face and attacks. I have decided that she is bipolar. Do they make snake Lithium? Lol....

[ProXimuS]

Love the pics! You're kids are so adorable:D And Little Joe looks so much like Tallie!


For Ziggy I hope she's able to get that shed off her face. She's such a cute girl:)

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking group.

[Lisa4john]

Sounds bipolar to me, lol... Silly girl, hasn't anyone told her that she's not supposed to bite the hand that feeds her? :D

[EasternGirl]

I have had many discussions with her...she just looks at me like "Yeah, whatever lady...put that hand in here again and see what happens!". Poor Ziggy, she does seem a bit perkier since I put a heat lamp on her and have been uping the humidity in her tank. Sometimes I look in on her and think she is one step away from death, and then I look in again and she seems okay. Only time will tell I guess. Emily, little Joe is the sweetest snake...you will really enjoy having Tallie...be prepared though, if she is anything like Joe, she will be a major pig snake!

Can anyone recommend the best bulb to use if I want to have light on my babies but not hurt Little Joe? It's just too dark for the babies with a red bulb...and Joe is not big enough to put in with my other albinos yet.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I think my snake is bipoler too.When I have food with me she's like "Give me food now!" and chases my hand around the cage if I'm not shoveling it in fast enough.The rest of the time shes the most timid little snake.Very odd:D

[kueluck]

Great looking bunch you have, and a bunch it is. I think I'm happy with my trio (but would love to have Cleo back). As for lighting, have you tried the light blue color bulbs? I guess it would be worth the few $$ to test it out.

[Light of Dae]

I think you could use a normal incandescent bulb, no need for a fancy bulb.

[EasternGirl]

Gail...the light blue bulbs have UV in them...bad for albinos. I know you miss Cleo...I wish you had her back. Well, I was using a regular household 40 watt bulb before...I just wanted to make sure that it is safe for albinos. I think we said before that they were...but I wanted to double check. I moved the tanks around and put Hermes and Possum on the bottom rack and the babies on the top because where the shelving unit is, it gets very dark on the bottom rack...I figured it's better for the albinos. But now it is too dark and I think maybe they need some sort of light because they never come out anymore.

Ziggy is still holding on...she ate a big plate of worms last night. I just wish I could figure out what is going on with her mouth but she is so terrified of anyone getting near her and I don't want to stress her out anymore than she already is. I could try putting her in a tub of water...but if I get near her she freaks...if I pick her up she ties herself in knots and thrashes around. She is so scared.

Sadie and I had some cuddle time last night. She is back to being the sweet girl she was when she first came to live with me. She wants to come out and be held all the time. Cee Cee is still being a freak. I told her if she isn't careful, Sadie is going to replace her as my girl. She just flattened her head and stared at me...lol.

[Light of Dae]

Maybe with Ziggy when holding her try to keep her from flailing around n sneak in and give some chin rubbings lol I've been doing that with my flames cause they always freak out when being picked up(they even have front opening doors) It works every time. Just rubbing the neck n chin. I think it almost confuses them like 'wait.. predators don't come from below....'

[-MARWOLAETH-]

LED doesn't emit UV or heat.They last a very long time and use hardly any power I'm gonna use these for my marcianus adult tank with ceramic heat emmiter for heat.
DIODER LED 4-piece lighting strip set - IKEA (http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00202324/)

[EasternGirl]

That's a great idea...thanks William. I was thinking about putting a lighting strip on the shelf above the albinos, but I was afraid that the heat would get to be too much for the tank above...since the LED lights don't emit heat...that is perfect. I'm pretty sure Chris uses those for his snakes.

[kueluck]

Marnie, I love the LED light fixture I have in the new tank, lots of light, no heat. It was a little costly at $125, but should last me 11.4 years. And I didn't know that the light blue party lights gave off UV. I thought they were just like regular incandescent lights, just with color.

[ConcinusMan]

Can anyone recommend the best bulb to use if I want to have light on my babies but not hurt Little Joe? It's just too dark for the babies with a red bulb...and Joe is not big enough to put in with my other albinos yet.

I would suggest using two fixtures. Keep the red bulb but add florescent for light. That way you can just turn off the florescent at night and the red bulb will be for heat/night viewing.

[EasternGirl]

Little Joe is albino...can't use florescent can I? Right...I was going to do something like that...either with LED or florescent if that is okay...maybe hook a strip on the rack above the tank, but keep the dome light for heat/basking. Or I could buy another double socket hood lamp like I have for the girls...they work nicely because you can have a night bulb and a day bulb in the same lamp. Yep, Gail...I double checked the light blue lights because I was looking on Amazon for night bulbs...if we are talking about the same bulb...it has UV in it.

So...I put Ziggy in a shed box and cleaned her tank...put in new substrate. I think she seems to be doing better with the breathing now...maybe she got the shed off her nares/mouth area. She is resting now...I will see if I can get a better look tomorrow. She almost escaped when I put her in the tub of water....hopped right out! Snapper hopped out of his tub and started bolting across the dining room floor last night...I was like "Snake on the loose! Snake on the loose!"...and my mother quickly grabbed the dog and shut off the room...but I caught him before he made it anywhere. That is two snakes having near escape attempts in two days!

[Light of Dae]

I have been thinking about using these

http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-Self-Adhesive-Bright-White-Light/dp/B000CMGXPM

Just lay them on top the lid loose. No need to stick them anywhere, then you can move them where needed.

I've seen similar types at the dollar store I think I'll see how long they last :) Even though brand name one are cheap enough.

[guidofatherof5]

Only 100 hours of light per set of batteries. Doesn't sound very economical.

[ConcinusMan]

Little Joe is albino...can't use florescent can I?

Why not? A regular white florescent bulb does not have UV output and even the ones made for reptiles have very little and none beyond 12 inches from the bulb. Of course, I posted the suggestion before I saw the other responses. If you're going to have to buy something then why not just go with some white LEDs.Both options produce light that is a little "colder" or "whiter" than natural light though. I prefer a spectrum that's a bit warmer, more natural but the snakes probably don't care.

[EasternGirl]

Right...that is what I want...LEDs. But I already have the ones like Michelle was suggesting...the batteries just run out too quickly. I wanted to get a strip light fixture that I can somehow rig up to my wrought iron shelving...I was wondering if anyone knew of something that would work.

[EasternGirl]

So it's feeding time...and last night it was time to feed all the babies. Thank goodness I thought to move little Athena out of the bigger babies tank. I don't feed the babies pinks very often...they love worms. I chopped the pink up into tiny pieces which created quite the bloody mess...I suppose that had a lot to do with the frenzy that ensued. I have never seen anything like it before! The little fat buggers went completely insane! They were jumping in the air and biting the sides of the tank...they started attacking each other...at one point, Zeus took a big old bite of Bella and wouldn't let go. I picked them up to try to get him off of her and Bella decided she was going to fight back but got me instead of Zeus. She bit down so hard...I yelled. So, then I had Bella hanging off my finger with Zeus hanging off of her...I'm yelling "Let go of her!" to Zeus and they are flailing around and flipping musk all over and my finger is bleeding and my son is like.."What the???". For the next ten minutes I had babies jumping up and biting my fingers....blood all over my fingers, which were swelling up at this point. I must have been bitten twenty times! I'm breaking up food fights and yelling...it was like some kind of snake royal rumble in there! I left Athena in a separate tank for the night. Crazy arse hopped up on pinks baby pig snakes!!!

[guidofatherof5]

I was picturing this whole thing and rolling on the floor laughing.

[Light of Dae]

Aaa HA HA HA Thats awesome! Sorry bout your fingers but that would be very funny to watch. I'm with Steve *Roflmao*

[EasternGirl]

It would have been really funny if I wasn't so irritated at the time. It would have been a great video...so that I could laugh about it later. I totally saw the humor in it...but I was being ganged up on and kept yelling at the "kids"...lol.

[kueluck]

Poor baby Bella. Does she have any lasting injuries from this?

[Selkielass]

Wow! My little butlers liked to steal worms from each other, but it never got that crazy!!!
My eastern and checkered sometimes go nuts grabbing for rodents, but I've never had to referee more than two snakes at a time.

[EasternGirl]

It was the craziest snake thing I have witnessed yet! I checked Bella thoroughly. I thought for sure she would be injured. I see no bite marks, wounds, and she seems fine. I'm keeping an eye on her. I had swollen fingers for a few hours. The more I got bitten, the more I bled, and the more I got bitten! I told those babies that they will not have more pinky for a while. I might have to start separating them to feed.

[kueluck]

Happy to hear that Bella is okay. I feed mine individually on my lap. This you can do when you only have 4 snake mouths to feed.

[ProXimuS]

Wow that sounds pretty extreme:p Sorry to hear about all the bites lol

[EasternGirl]

Ehhh....I was fine an hour later. Didn't even leave any lasting marks. Yeah...you certainly can't feed wiggling, jumpy babies on your lap...lol. It is going to be a total pain if I have to separate them. It already takes me about two hours to feed everyone because I have to move snakes to feed tubs and all of that. If I need to separate the babies, I will have to buy more tubs and it will take that much longer to feed.

[ConcinusMan]

Now you know what I go through raising concinnus litters. First 3-4 weeks or so things are rather peaceful. They'll eat from a dish as a group with no problems then one day, every feeding becomes WW3. Now imagine feeding 90 of them acting like that.

[EasternGirl]

Okay everyone...this update is long overdue. All of the snakes are doing well. Interestingly, Cee Cee passed 27 jellies the other day...I didn't even know she was gravid again. I had my suspicions a while ago...but then I figured I was wrong. But a couple of days ago, she started getting restless and digging like she does before she gives birth...and I said, "You better not have a bunch of babies because I can't take care of any more!"...guess she listened, because she only passed jellies. She passed the amount that is about the same as the litters she has...close to 30. The twins that I found...Peanut and Snapper...have adjusted better...they aren't so skiddish anymore and eating now. Ziggy is still skiddish as always...but boy does she love to eat! Hermes and Possum hide most of the time, as per usual for them. Sammy, the red radix from Steve, has gotten pretty big. He does have what looks like a small growth on his back, which I need to get a pic of and post for some feedback. Seeley is doing well. Sadie is fat as all get out! She is such a sweetie. The babies are big...they are a year old now...and I really need to get sexing pics up so that I can decide where to put them...they will need to be separated so they don't breed. I haven't had any further mite issues, thankfully. I left all of the snakes in the care of my neighbor for five days while I was away visiting family...the boy who loves snakes and brings me garters that he finds. He did an excellent job caring for them.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to see you on and your snakes are doing well.
Tell the young care giver "nice job"

[EasternGirl]

I will :) Steve...Sadie is pretending to be an Amazon Tree Boa today. She is all curled up at the top of her plastic tree under her heat lamp and she looks so cute. Will try to get a pic.

[guidofatherof5]

Niiice.