Marnie's Snakes

[chris-uk]

Try a pile in a corner on a plastic lid or something. Although I used to just put damp moss in the cold hides on top of the substrate. I stopped because it stays damp longer in a container.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...sounds good, I'll try that.

[EasternGirl]

I put the moist hide back in Hermes' enclosure and now he is refusing to go inside...he is throwing a tantrum like a toddler. :rolleyes:

I haven't put any moss in Cee Cee's enclosure yet...her humidity is up around 50%...and she seems happy hiding in her cave.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Now Joe...you just have some on top of the other substrate? Not in a container or anything? Because I was thinking about doing that in Cee Cee's enclosure. Seeley likes it a lot too...and I put some in Possum's viv last night and he was having fun burrowing in it. But so far, Cee Cee is not having it. I wanted to put some in her viv because she is getting ready to shed...and the container might be the problem...she will not go in a moist hide. So, I was thinking about just putting a little pile in the corner.
it has to be able to dry out and its no big deal if it mixes with the substrate

[EasternGirl]

Okay...good deal. I am really thinking that Hermes may have a retained shed. He has a line down the middle of his belly like he gets before a shed...and his eyes look puffy like before a shed, yet he just shed....and he keeps wiggling through plants and rubbing his face on stuff they way they do when they are trying to get a shed off.

[EasternGirl]

So here is a question...how many of you are as crazy as I am and get up in the middle of the night to check on your snakes? :rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

I wake up multiple times at night and watch my snakes sleeping... It helps me stay calm.

[EasternGirl]

I don't think that is so crazy...but I wake up to check on them to make sure they are okay because I worry about them...that is a little bit crazier...but that's me...the worried mom...I also check my son, the dog, the cats, the guinea pigs...make sure everything is off....that nothing is on fire...lol...that is my crazy...now you know....I'm a checker. :rolleyes:

[katach]

I do too. They are so cute when they sleep. Sometimes Willow falls asleep with her face against the glass. :D

[EasternGirl]

That's really cute.

[EasternGirl]

I just keep trying to get Hermes' humidity levels up because I think he really needs it for his skin and shedding issues...I have moist moss in the corner, I'm misting, I have more than 3/4 of the tank lid covered with a towel...I still can't get the darn humidity over 40%...it's barely hitting 40% actually. I even turned his lamp off today...it's been warm outside so he really doesn't need it anyway. I think I'm going to put him in a shed box in a little while...since I'm convinced he has a retained shed. Anyone have any other ideas for gettting the humidity up some more?

[guidofatherof5]

From where are you taking the humidity reading?

[EasternGirl]

I have the gauge set in the tank down in the substrate towards the front of the tank near the left side (warm side...but the lamp isn't on). The gauge was one of those stick on types but I pulled it off the wall of one of the tanks and removed the sticky tape from the back so that I can use it for more than one tank until I can afford to buy another one.

[kibakiba]

The substrate may be dryer than the air, since you're sticking it in the substrate... Try taking it out and maybe propping it on a hide, so it'll get the humidity in the air?

[EasternGirl]

I actually took a plastic container bottom with a hole in it and set it on top of the moss. I also put Hermes in a shed box for a half an hour...didn't seem to do anything. His face still looks crackly to me.

[kibakiba]

You're going to need to help him with it...

[EasternGirl]

I have run my hands over his face a dozen times...I have stared at his little face...I had the washcloth and was going over his face the best I could when he shed last week...I can see that his face doesn't look right...that it looks crackly and kind of like it does before a shed, but I can't see any obvious retained skin to try to pick off. When he shed and I ran my hands over his face, I could feel the skin and rub it away...I got the eye caps and all...I'm just going to try to get a close up shot of his face later and post it and see what you guys think.

On a totally different note...Possum is just so darn cute. He thinks he is a cobra sometimes or something. If he comes up to the glass of the tank to see me and I put my finger on the tank...he coils up in a striking pose...you may have seen him do it in the video once...it's so funny. And when he gets nervous he turns upside down, I've noticed. If he gets all worked up because someone comes up to the tank too quickly and startles him...he jumps across the tank and then turns upside down and starts slithering around upside down. But he really likes to interact...he likes to come and see me. And my mom really likes to watch him. She always asks what Possum is doing and looks in and checks on him. This is the same woman that did not want any snakes in her house a year ago! ;)

[chris-uk]

I actually took a plastic container bottom with a hole in it and set it on top of the moss. I also put Hermes in a shed box for a half an hour...didn't seem to do anything. His face still looks crackly to me.

More time in the shed box. He'll get there soon.

[EasternGirl]

Let me get a pic of his face up later and have you guys take a look at it and see what you think.

[EasternGirl]

Some pics of Hermes...try to note the puffy spots in front of his eyes...

436543664367

[InsanePirateDragon]

Cute face, and I think I see the puffiness. Its not an eye infection coming on?

[EasternGirl]

I don't think so...his whole face has looked odd like this for a while...it looks exactly like it does before a shed...but he just shed.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Its something that probably needs to be watched cause eye infections are not fun. Hopefully its not cause my older Leo had an infection in her eye and it took forever to clear up and left her blind in an eye.

[katach]

He is wonderful! I'll have to get some good close ups of his sister.

[EasternGirl]

But does it look like he has a retained shed on his face to you?

[BUSHSNAKE]

that dont look like a retained shed to me

[guidofatherof5]

But does it look like he has a retained shed on his face to you?

Can't say I see any red flags.

[EasternGirl]

I'm sorry...I just realized that I wasn't specific when I posted the pics and some of you may not have been following my thread the last couple of days....I posted the pics of Hermes because I am concerned that he may have retained shed on his face...or something going on with his face. It has looked odd to me for a while...like it does before a shed yet it did not go back to normal after his last shed. So I wanted you guys to look at the pics and tell me if you think his face looks abnormal...if you think something is going on. Sorry if I was unclear before...thanks.

[EasternGirl]

oh okay thanks...I don't really know what looks abnormal for albinos yet...so, I needed some other opinions. :)

[chris-uk]

But does it look like he has a retained shed on his face to you?

The face looks like a normal albino checkered. I can't see signs of a retained shed (although a closer macro shot would be good in case you're seeing something close up that we can't see in the photos) and the shape of the face is pretty much what Binky looks like all the time, I'm not seeing any puffiness.
You'll get used to spotting when something looks wrong soon enough. One of the things I like about having different species is that you can appreciate that they are different shapes and proportions, and some have prettier faces than others.

[EasternGirl]

I'm really admitting how technologically stupid I am here....I don't know what a macro shot is....:o.

[chris-uk]

I'm really admitting how technologically stupid I am here....I don't know what a macro shot is....:o.

Macro let's you get close and still focus. Chances are that without using a macro mode the closest you'll be able to focus is about 50cm, depends on the lens. My camera will only focus to 50cm normally, but in macro I can focus as close as 1cm. The flash becomes an issue close up, so good natural light is best.
Photography blog post about macros:
Macro Shots, What is that Flower Icon? | dpblogs.com (http://ispeakfilm.dpblogs.com/2006/02/08/macro-shots-what-is-that-flower-icon/)

[Natrix]

4378 4379 These were taken with a mobile phone last year not 50yrds from my house. This was one of the biggest adult slow-worms that I have ever come across well over 12inches ;) Who needs fancy cameras? :D This particular animal I believe was a male.

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.

[Stefan-A]

4378 4379 These were taken with a mobile phone last year not 50yrds from my house. This was one of the biggest adult slow-worms that I have ever come across well over 12inches ;) Who needs fancy cameras? :D This particular animal I believe was a male.

It doesn't need to be a fancy camera, just one that's not shoved into the smallest, thinnest frame possible. Phone cameras produce a picture quality that's typically worse than what my circa 2001 Fuji Finepix 2600 Zoom did with half the megapixels. And especially older models (made before 2009) weren't even capable of focusing on objects that were closer than 1 meter.

[Natrix]

I had to bring the frame right down because it was to big to up load When I originally took it. I still have the original pic on my phone.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...so I just push the flower button....hmmm...I will try that. Thanks...from the technologically challenged.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee finally shed...a perfect shed. She was not very happy that I rewarded her by making her sit for pics for the photo contest! If you see my pic...my son took that, btw. Now it is time to go and clean Possum's tank...because he has decided to tell me he feels at home now by pooping all over everything!

[guidofatherof5]

Keep up the good work there Possum. :D

[EasternGirl]

Feeding day is not until tomorrow..but Cee Cee has continued to come up to the enclosure door with that look on her face every single time I come near it for the past couple days...she did this even though she was about to shed...forcing herself to overcome that desire to hide and scowl at me, and instead lifting her face up to look at me with the "I'm so cute...aren't I a sad little snake?" face that I know translates into..."I am hungry woman! Feed me now!"....and so...I gave in...and fed her a nice big, fat pinky tonight. I'm a sucker for a cute face. But hey...she rewarded me with that beautiful, perfect shed...and that funny contest pic. And now she is all shiny! :)

[guidofatherof5]

By next weekend I'll have my year supply of 7000 pinkies in and my snakes will be going crazy for some mice.

[EasternGirl]

That's awesome...I was just looking at my supply and thinking that I am going to need to order some more soon...so many mouths to feed now!

[Natrix]

Keep up the good work there Possum. :D
Having a Dame Edna moment there Steve? :D

[guidofatherof5]

I hate it when I have to look things up and still don't understand. :D:confused:

[Natrix]

Steve, the next thing you know you'll be waring a frock and throwing Gladiolli at the audience. :D

[chris-uk]

Rod, do you get the impression that Dame Edna didn't make it big in the States?

[Natrix]

Aye! But SHE'S a MEGASTAR............. has fans all over the world.

[guidofatherof5]

Steve, the next thing you know you'll be waring a frock and throwing Gladiolli at the audience. :D

I hope not. For everyone else's sake.

[EasternGirl]

You know who I love? Eddie Izzard! His stand up shows are hilarious!

[Natrix]

Glad to you see the funny side Steve. :D By the way 7000 pinkies? that equates to 19 a day, How many snakes do you have?

[EasternGirl]

Heh heh....he always gets this question. And we always say...it is not called the T.Radix Ranch for nothin! :D

[guidofatherof5]

Enough to eat 7000 pinkies in one year.
Well, almost a year. :D

[EasternGirl]

Oh no...there's nothing going on here...:rolleyes:.

4387 And they wonder why I keep separating them...

[guidofatherof5]

♫Boys just want to have fun. Oh, boy just want to have fun♫:D

[EasternGirl]

Look at Cee Cee's face...she's like "Can't we get any privacy around here?"....

[EasternGirl]

Ummm...looks like I need to have that birds and the bees talk with Seeley again and explain which end is up...:D

4409Cee Cee: "Dude..I told you, that is my head...*sigh*...men."

[kimbosaur]

Cee Cee's so pretty. I like the white on her.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks...it is actually more of a light tan that gets darker and darker as she nears shed time...she just shed so she looks very light right now...she looks so light and you can see her patterns very clearly right after her shed. By the time her next shed rolls around, she will be brown. She almost looks greenish right after a shed...and yes, her dorsal stripe almost looks white it's so light. I just think it is so interesting how her colors change!

[EasternGirl]

I'm a little concerned tonight because I was feeding Cee Cee some worms and she drug one of them into the aspen and got a little on it when she was eating it. She does not usually drag her food down into the substrate...she usually sticks her head out of her enclosure to eat from the hemostats...but for some reason she took this piece down into it. I tried to get it from her, at the risk of losing a finger, and I managed to get a piece of aspen out of the side of her mouth but I think she may have eaten a couple small pieces. I know she didn't get any large pieces, but I am still worried. Darnit...I am mad at myself too for letting this happen.

[guidofatherof5]

Don't loose any sleep over it. What's done is done.
It doesn't sound serious especially if the piece/s were small.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks, Steve.....I guess I'll just be watching the poo...

[EasternGirl]

This crazy weather...the up and down temperature nonsense, is really starting to pose a problem with my snakes. This morning, I didn't turn their lamps on because it has been so hot, and it was supposed to get really warm again today, and then by mid-afternoon I checked on them and they were all cold because the stupid temperature had never gone up outside. Then, I turned their lamps on and went out for a while in the late afternoon, and it got really warm, and I came home and all of the enclosures were very warm and I had to quickly shut the lamps off again. I have to constantly check the temps in the tanks because I have no idea what the weather is doing...I'm afraid if I leave for a while with the lamps on or off, it could get too cold or too warm for them! I guess I'm just going to have to lower all of the thermostats and hope for the best.

[chris-uk]

Eh? If you have the lamps on thermostats doesn't that keep the temps constant for them even if the room temp varies?

[InsanePirateDragon]

Having that same problem out here in KS as well. It reached into the 80s and today its barely into the 70s.

[EasternGirl]

Chris, it does...I just think that they seem to like the temps higher in the winter and cooler in the summer...obviously...so now I'm just having trouble with this inbetween time in the seasons...it's a little too warm out for them to need the lamps on 86 degrees I think...but it's not warm enough for me to shut the lamps of completely and have the temps in the house keep the tanks warm enough...so I think I just need to turn the thermostats down to shut off at 80 or something...if I am making any sense. Am I making any sense?

Anyway...Possum did the cutest thing tonight...I sat him down in the feed tank to eat and he started eating while he was wrapped around my fingers....he is such a sweetie! Then he dodges at his food and attacks it like he is wrestling an alligator for a meal...he is so funny. He thinks he is a big tough cobra or something and he is really the sweetest snake in the world.

[EasternGirl]

It's official...I'm in love with Possum. He is without a doubt, the sweetest snake I have ever met. I hope he lives for a long time.

[guidofatherof5]

Isn't it wonderful when one of those special snakes come into your life.

[chris-uk]

Chris, it does...I just think that they seem to like the temps higher in the winter and cooler in the summer...obviously...so now I'm just having trouble with this inbetween time in the seasons...it's a little too warm out for them to need the lamps on 86 degrees I think...but it's not warm enough for me to shut the lamps of completely and have the temps in the house keep the tanks warm enough...so I think I just need to turn the thermostats down to shut off at 80 or something...if I am making any sense. Am I making any sense?

So... When the external temperature is higher, you need to turn down the temperature in the vivs? If the tanks are thermostated you just use the stat to maintain the same temps. I've read about seasonal variation to mimic the seasons, but that would be increased temps in the summer...


Anyway...Possum did the cutest thing tonight...I sat him down in the feed tank to eat and he started eating while he was wrapped around my fingers....he is such a sweetie! Then he dodges at his food and attacks it like he is wrestling an alligator for a meal...he is so funny. He thinks he is a big tough cobra or something and he is really the sweetest snake in the world.

Sounds like a great snakes every time you post.

[EasternGirl]

I think I am just not used to using thermostats...that may be the problem. I need to get used to the idea of them. I think I am just feeling the warm temps in the house and feeling hot myself and worrying that the snakes are getting hot...I have to remember that the thermostat is on to control the temps. I still lowered the setting on the thermostats...I set them to shut off at 83 instead of 86...I just don't think they need it so hot right now and I guess my worry is what is controlling the temps on the cool side? If the probe for the thermostat is on the warm side of the tank...then it senses if the warm side gets to 83 and shuts off...but what about the cool side of the tank? Won't that get warmer if the room is warmer? You can't really turn the cool side of the tank down. Also...say you have a lamp on the warm side and the warm side hits 84...the lamp is going to shut off...but then say the house gets so warm that the tank starts to get really warm just from the heat inside the house? Then it doesn't matter what the thermostat does...it can't control the heat in the house...do you know what I'm saying?

[EasternGirl]

The difference in the personalities of albinos...

Or could it have to do with Hermes being an albino and Possum being a snow? I don't know. What I have observed though is that Possum likes light...he likes to be out in the daytime and he likes it when I turn a light on. I have a lamp with a 40 watt bulb set up next to his enclosure, and when it is dim in the room, I turn the light on for him and he becomes very active. He is extremely active and is out a lot. Like Hermes, he likes to be up in hanging plants, and he likes to bask under the red light. I do have a red light on over the warm side of his enclosure. Now, as I have said before...Hermes is completely nocturnal. He does not come out during the day...he does not like any light. He only comes out during the night when it is very dark. He hides a lot. He is active for a while during the night...and he will go up into his hanging plant and bask for a while under his red light during the night, but he is rarely out and active during the day.

[EasternGirl]

For Kat...the pic you requested. A pic of4430 Hermes...I think it is right before a shed.

[kibakiba]

And a backwards "anyone"! I'm totally glad my dyslexia flipped it in my head, or I'd be wondering what it said!

[EasternGirl]

That is that stupid writing stuff that I can't get off the tank! Lol...I didn't even realize it said that until you just pointed it out...

[EasternGirl]

It was feeding day...Seeley ate tonight, and for the first time ever, he wanted seconds...he ate a whole pinky and was looking for more, so I gave him some salmon. Also a first...he had a bulge from eating. I have never seen a bulge on him before...since he often does not eat and when he does, he eats so little usually. Yay Seeley!

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.
Good job Seeley.
You too Marnie.:D

[EasternGirl]

I'm worried about Hermes. I made a moist hide and put it in the enclosure like I discussed with members before since he has been having some issues with his skin looking crackly. But now, all he wants to do is stay inside the moist hide all the time and I am worried he is going to get scale rot. I'm also wondering why he wants to be in there all the time. I keep taking him out of there, but he keeps going back in. For instance, last night I fed him and he immediately went in there and stayed in there until this morning....so I let him stay, but then I decided he had enough this morning and moved him out of there...but he just went right back in...what should I do?

[guidofatherof5]

It may be an emergency shed situation. Put him in a warm, wet shed box. Then under some warm running water to see if you can get the shed started.
Trying to get the shed started at the front(lower jaw) would be best but you might have to start at the vent and peel backwards.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.

[EasternGirl]

I have him in the shed box...but I really don't see any signs on him of a retained shed or that he needs to shed. If you remember, I posted some pics about two weeks ago, right after he had that weird shed that came off in pieces, and you and the other members said you didn't see any signs of a retained shed. I put him in the shed box for about ten minutes just now and then took him out and checked for any signs of retained shed around his mouth, face, and vent...I can't see anything. I put him back in the box...I will leave him in there for a little while...but I don't think I'm going to see anything. Any other ideas of why he would be wanting the moisture? Should I let him hang out in the moist hide or should I maybe take it out of the encloure so that he doesn't spend so much time in there?

[guidofatherof5]

I'm sorry I thought you said he had a crackly appearance.
I wouldn't be too worried about him spending time in the moist area.
He'll come out to warm up or for food and water.

[EasternGirl]

No, I'm sorry if I was confusing. He looked like he had a crackly appearance to me before and I posted pics a couple of weeks ago, but you and some other members said he looked fine. But now he is spending all this time in the moist hide...just don't want him to get scale rot or anything. Thanks for your help with this Steve. :)

[kimbosaur]

Why don't you try removing the "moisture" from the moist hide and put it back in the same spot. As in, just leave it dry for a day. If he still goes back in, then maybe it's just because he likes that particular hide/spot.

Just a thought. :)

[EasternGirl]

Well, I do let it dry out...as it dries out pretty easily because it is just a pile of moist moss with the bottom of a deli cup placed on top with a hole in it...but he still goes in. I can't figure out then if he is hoping for it to be moist, or like you said, if he just likes the spot. I think that he thinks no one can see him when he's in there...ha ha. But it's a see-through deli cup so you can totally see him sitting in there! :D I just don't know how much time I should let him spend in there. I mean, if he sits in moist moss all the time, won't he get scale rot?

On a totally different note...poor Ceecers got a little piece of aspen stuck in her nostril today. She was looking out of her enclosure at me and I saw it and rushed to get in there to get it out. Knowing Cee Cee...I knew I couldn't just reach up to her face and pick it out of her nare...she would freak out and bite the crap out of me. So I had to kind of slap it away from her face...poor thing! This of course she saw as an attack and started striking at me...with good reason, poor girl! At least I got it out of her nose. She forgave me quickly.

[EasternGirl]

So the ongoing mystery of whether or not Cee Cee is gravid continues...it's hard to tell with her considering she is a piggy piggers...is she fat? Or preggers? She definitely has that sausage look around her lower end now and she has scale spread...but again, she could be fat. I weighed her and she is now 180g...she was 130g about 2 mos ago...so that isn't a lot of gain in a short period, but she has gained weight. But she has been eating a lot more. The weight gain could simply be explained by that. I feed her more and more often now. She is very restless and wants to be on the warm side of the tank all the time. So...could be...I'm always trying to feel for baby bumps but I honestly cannot tell. I will try to start weighing her more and see if she is increasingly gaining weight.

[EasternGirl]

I woke up this morning to find Seeley completely burrowed under the substrate. He popped his little head up to greet me though.

4447

[EasternGirl]

Here is a cute little video I made of Seeley attempting to get a little action from Cee Cee, while Cee Cee is busy discovering the video camera. I think it's so funny because Seeley looks like he is riding a roller coaster.

002.MOV - YouTube (http://youtu.be/1VWUWF742-s)

[guidofatherof5]

Good video Marnie.

[kibakiba]

Wow she's fat! Hahaha.

[EasternGirl]

Right? And considering Seeley is riding that roller coaster all the time...babies could very well be the cause of that.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...so after much huffing and puffing, and a good cleaning...I moved Cee Cee's enclosure from the bottom of the shelving unit to the middle of it....darn heavy tank. I had to do it because my stupid cat would not leave poor Cee Cee alone and it was freaking her out. Now he can't reach her to sit outside her tank and gawk at her and scratch at the glass of her tank and drive her bonkers. I had to move all the lamps, and move some wires and the thermostat around...but Cee Cee should be much less freaked out now. The new snakes that Steve is going to send me later in the spring can go in the top tank so that they won't be bothered by crazy cat either! I'll use the bottom tank as the feed tank. I can always cover it with a towel while the snakes are eating if koo koo kitty is around.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee's breathing is really bad again...I'm not sure where this came from...I mean, the vet did say that it seemed like a chronic thing with her that would come and go. She was fine a couple of days ago though. She sounded terrible when she was eating tonight...very crackly in her throat and chest, lots of clicking, and congestion in her nose. I cranked the heat up to about 88 on the warm side and the humidity up to 60% and I'm going to call the vet on Monday...unless she starts open mouth breathing or stuff starts coming out of her mouth and nose...then I'll take her to the ER...luckily they have an ER at the animal hospital where I take her...I'm hoping they have an exotic on call. I'm very worried.

[guidofatherof5]

Hang in there Marnie it may leave as quick as it came. :D

[EasternGirl]

I hope so...it just sounds bad this time...worse than before, although oddly enough there is no wheezing this time...just the crackling and an obvious congested sound when she is breathing...oh, and I forgot to mention she has been doing a kind of sneezing thing. But she is eating and responsive.

[gregmonsta]

I hope this thing resolves itself for her soon. If she is gravid the extra stress on her system won't help. Crossing my fingers ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Hang in there Marnie it may leave as quick as it came. :D

Please excuse the big grin at the end of that post. Was suppose to be a wink. My apologies.

[EasternGirl]

Well, she is doing okay this morning. The heat is still up and so is the humidity. A weird thing that has been going on on top of all of this lately is that she has been refusing to go to the cool side of the enclosure because I cannot seem to find a cool hide that she likes and that she can fit inside! She is extremely picky...I have noticed this about my easterns in particular...they do not react well to changes in their enclosure, and are very picky about hides. I can put something new in the viv and Cee Cee and Seeley will sit in a corner and stare at it and refuse to go near it for days. For some reason, she stopped going in her slim jim can hide, which was her cool side hide. I think she couldn't fit in it anymore! I keep trying to make new hides for her, but she will not go in them...therefore, she will not go to the cool side, which is concerning me. I will try to listen to her breathing in a little while. She is being very skiddish the last couple of days...I don't want to stress her too much. The idea of taking her to the vet worries me too because that will be very stressful on her.

[mikem]

are pringles cans bigger than your slim jim can? she might like those, if she's not too big for them as well! she may just want the extra heat.

[EasternGirl]

I thought about pringles cans...they aren't much wider. I made a hide out of a box for her last night...I'm trying to get her to consider going in it...she is just staring at it from across the tank right now, of course.

[EasternGirl]

I took Cee Cee out to listen to her breathing tonight. I hated to do it...I didn't want to stress the poor thing out anymore than she already is...she is so skiddish right now. But I just couldn't hear her breathing enough without taking her out. It didn't sound as bad as before...still clicking a lot, and a little bit of the congestion...but I didn't hear the crackling. Hopefully the heat and humidity is helping. I did try to get her to go on the cool side, but she went right back over to the warm side again. I made her a moist hide, but she isn't going in it. I turned her heat pad off because she wouldn't go in her warm cave hide...it may have been getting a little too warm in there for her. As soon as I turned the heat mat off, she went back inside. I'll leave her 40 watt red bulb on overnight to keep it warm for her. Humidity is at 50%. I'll reassess in the morning and decide whether or not to call the vet.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee's breathing seems okay this morning. I stuck my head in the tank and couldn't hear anything out of the ordinary. I'm going to try to give her a little bite of something to eat later to see if I hear anything like I heard before. Maybe she just needed an increase in heat and humidity again...or maybe she had a little piece of substrate caught in her nare or something.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to hear she's sounding better.

[EasternGirl]

Possum shed again tonight. He had a little bit of trouble getting the end of the shed off this time. I helped him. I did notice that I can tell when he is going to shed because his skin gets very wrinkly. He also hides a lot and becomes less active. Cee Cee finally went into the cold hide that I made for her. The poor thing is so fat!

45024503

Oh...Possum also went swimming in his water dish to help get his shed off..and he was swimming upside down and tying himself in knots in the water. Then, when he was done shedding and I took him out of his enclosure to look at him to make sure he got all of his shed off, he constricted around my thumb so tight he cut off my circulation. Now, he thinks he is a boa constrictor!

[mikem]

possum is having an identity crisis! glad to hear cee cee decided to switch sides for ya :cool:

[InsanePirateDragon]

You know, you can try this on Cee Cee if she gets wheezy again. I used it on Marley when I thought she had an RI infection. It cleared out mine alright when I was getting it ready. You can give it a shot. Totally forgot I still had it bookmarked and figured I'd suggest it.

Guide to Home Treatment of Snake Respiratory Infection - *BambooZoo (http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/snake--respiratory-remedy.html)

[kibakiba]

I would not do that. I wouldn't use essential oils around my snakes like that either.

[EasternGirl]

I'm thinking...I wonder if it is safe. I want to ask my vet about it. And get some opinions of other members. I do appreciate the help very much. I am a little hesitant about letting the snake breathe in the vapors...but at the same time, I know the healing properties of those vapors for people with respiratory problems. InsanePirateDragon...could you start a thread posting that link and ask members their opinions on the safety of that as a treatment for RI?

[Natrix]

Have you tried using F10 (Non Toxic) in hot water and letting the snake breath the vapours in.You can use it in a nebuliser with a tube connected to a ventilated box. Place the snake in the box and switch the nebuliser on. This is how the vets treat raptors with respiritory problems. My vet swears by the stuff. Its worth a try. ;) it's expensive but its good. F10 DisinfectantBig Reptile World for all snake, lizard, tortoise, turtle and amphibian books, supplies and supplementsF10 Disinfectant

(http://www.bigreptileworld.com/f10-disinfectant-2-c.asp)

[EasternGirl]

And it is safe for the snake to breathe that in? I could ask my vet about it. My vet did say something about using a vaporizer...I have one for my son because he has asthma. Perhaps I will go put it on near Cee Cee's enclosure. Maybe not a good idea? Maybe it could make the tank too damp? Should I put her in something else and move her and then put it on near her?

[InsanePirateDragon]

I'm thinking...I wonder if it is safe. I want to ask my vet about it. And get some opinions of other members. I do appreciate the help very much. I am a little hesitant about letting the snake breathe in the vapors...but at the same time, I know the healing properties of those vapors for people with respiratory problems. InsanePirateDragon...could you start a thread posting that link and ask members their opinions on the safety of that as a treatment for RI?

Okay, not a problem.

[Natrix]

And it is safe for the snake to breathe that in? I could ask my vet about it. My vet did say something about using a vaporizer...I have one for my son because he has asthma. Perhaps I will go put it on near Cee Cee's enclosure. Maybe not a good idea? Maybe it could make the tank too damp? Should I put her in something else and move her and then put it on near her?
F10 should be completely safe. The simple way is to get a heat resistant container to which you can connect a piece of hosepipe or something similar to, Connect the other end to a ventilated container. Place the snake in the ventilated container and the hot (not to hot) F10 mix in the other container. The steam will pass through the pipe into the box containing the snake as F10 vapour. It's a bit like giving the snake a medicated sauna. This is how I do it with my birds when thay get a little snufflely. ;)

[EasternGirl]

Well I got a look in her mouth today...I had to feed her a piece of pinky to look in there...with Cee Cee, you do not want to try to pry her mouth open if you want to keep your fingers attached to your hand. I did not see any bubbles or mucus that I could tell. I do still hear the clicking and a little snorting that sounds like her nose is congested. I cranked the heat and humidity up a little more. I do not hear wheezing or crackling.

[mikem]

from my experience with other snakes, as long as it's not a bad ri, raising the temp a bit will cook it out.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...it seems like whenever I lower temps in her enclosure, her problems act up again. This started up again because I was lowering the temps at night. I hate to have to keep it super warm in her tank all the time...but it seems to be the only way to keep her problems at bay.

[EasternGirl]

Here are a couple of new pics of Cee Cee looking particularly sausagy...since she is having trouble fitting in her hides lately, I have a new song for her..."I'm too sausage for my hide, too sausage for my hide...". I sing it to her when I look at her.

45154516

[kibakiba]

She is quite the sausage!

[guidofatherof5]

Here are a couple of new pics of Cee Cee looking particularly sausagy...since she is having trouble fitting in her hides lately, I have a new song for her..."I'm too sausage for my hide, too sausage for my hide...". I sing it to her when I look at her.



Keep in mind that "garter snakes never forget"
She will get payback.:D

[EasternGirl]

She probably says to Seeley when I walk by..."I don't know what that lady thinks she's laughing at...look at the size of her butt." :D

[InsanePirateDragon]

That is one fat snake.

[EasternGirl]

Well...I am hoping there are babies in there and that she is not just fat...ha ha. If it turns out that she is just fat...she and I need to have a serious discussion about her going on a diet and me not giving into "the face".

[InsanePirateDragon]

Yeah I know that look all that well. My Leo is on a diet and thinks he's starving.

[EasternGirl]

Fed the snakies tonight. The piggers was in rare form...she came out of her enclosure as usual...with her body straight out toward my face...leaning out to the point that she is about to topple out of the tank onto the floor. I really need to get a video of this for you guys...it is something to see. She isn't considering her weight these days when she stretches out to me like that...she really almost fell onto the floor tonight. I would have peed myself laughing if she did. She was in such a feeding frenzy this time...that she started striking at and actually biting a cord and plug that were dangling next to her tank window. She was licking all the mouse blood up too. She must be preggers! Possum is almost as kooky as she is...he rolls in the mouse blood and gets it all over him when he eats...and attacks every piece of food with a vengeance. I have to give him a little bath every time he is done eating. Hermes ate too...under his hide as usual. Seeley decided not to eat tonight...but, the other night after I gave Cee Cee a little piece of pinky so that I could check for bubbles in her mouth...Seeley started begging for food after that because he smelled Cee Cee's treat. So, I ended up giving him some fish...so he is not starving. :)

[guidofatherof5]

We are awaiting the video. Please.

[EasternGirl]

I'll have to just turn on the video camera and get my mom to hold it (she can't work a digital camera :rolleyes:). Getting Julian to stand still and hold the camera while I feed her is impossible...it's torture for him to ask him to stand still for that long...lol. I'll see if I can get a video next time I feed her.

[EasternGirl]

Hermes had another bit of a problem with a shed...I had no idea he was getting ready to shed, I can never tell with him...but I found him slithering around the enclosure with the shed off of his head and neck and peeling in pieces again...so I helped him get the rest of it off.

I quarantined Possum for thirty days and then decided to go ahead and put him in with Hermes...I decided not to do a long quarantine since I know and trust the breeder and got both snakes from the same one. The good news is...Possum and Hermes love each other....they love to lie together all curled around each other...they look so cute. The bad news is...I think my plan may have backfired...my theory behind putting them together was that a new snake would bring Hermes out of his shell. You would think that social and active Possum would be the perfect snake for that. Except that Possum is not longer social and active....Hermes taught Possum what hiding is...and how to be anti-social. Now the two of them hide together all day long! They lie around together like two lazy antisocial hermits under a hide and refuse to come out! Argh! Those garters got me...those sneaky garters. This was Hermes plan all along....:rolleyes:.

[guidofatherof5]

You gotta love 'em.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Well if I remember, the god Hermes was quite the trickster so you might have been asking for it. :D

[EasternGirl]

Well...Possum might have heard me whining about all of this...because he decided to come out tonight and grace me with his presence. He had a little visit with me and explored around the enclosure for a little while. Ha Ha Hermes! How you like them apples? :D

[BUSHSNAKE]

Here are a couple of new pics of Cee Cee looking particularly sausagy...since she is having trouble fitting in her hides lately, I have a new song for her..."I'm too sausage for my hide, too sausage for my hide...". I sing it to her when I look at her.

45154516
shes looking very gravid Marnie

[EasternGirl]

I agree. I just hope she can wait a little while longer to have those babies. She is having trouble fitting in her hides and she is moving back and forth from the warm side to the cool side a lot...and she was soaking in her water dish...or trying to anyway, she wouldn't fit in it, last night. Also...Seeley seems to be keeping his distance more now. She either needs to have those babies this week or wait two weeks since I will be away next Wednesday and most of Thursday...I have no idea what my mother and son will do if she has those babies while I am gone.

[guidofatherof5]

Prepare for that very situation. Leave a shed box with a small water dish in it.
If the babies come they can be quickly moved to that box. Leave detailed instructions on what to do.
24-48 hours in a moist box can only do the little ones some good.
This will also reduce your worry about the situation also.;)

[mikem]

lots of little mouths to feed may be in your future :cool:

[EasternGirl]

Steve...I have a plastic storage container from the dollar store that I use for my shed box. How can I get air holes in it for the babies without a soldering iron? I have tried making holes in plastic containers like that before with a sharp object only to have the plastic crack on me. I was going to just clean out one of my 20 gallon tanks that has a lock lid on it and put paper towels down and a small water dish and I told my mother to put gloves on (so Cee Cee won't bite her) and just move the babies into that tank if Cee Cee should have them while I'm gone. There is no way the babies can escape from the tank because the lid is very secure...would that work?

[guidofatherof5]

A pair of pliers, a nail and a stove or heat source and you should be able to burn some holes through the plastic.
The 20 should work as long as the babies can't get out.

[mikem]

yep, i've used a small nail heated to make holes. right now i'm using a drill bit because i've lost my little soldering iron. i need to pick up another one soon. the last one i got was about $10 at walmart. that was about 5 years ago and i haven't priced them since. they're very handy to have around when you need some quick holes.

is your mom comfortable moving the babies if she has them? make sure she's not using really thick gloves as it can make grabbing them a pain and there's a risk of dropping and losing one or two in the house because it'll be hard to actually feel the grip you have. depending on how long you're going to be out of commission, perhaps she can just mist the enclosure really well until you can get in there.

whichever option you go with, i'm sure everything will be fine. :)

[EasternGirl]

Well....I will only be in the hospital overnight as long as everything goes as planned. I will be gone all day Wednesday and I will be home by midday Thursday. I should actually be fine to take care of the snakes once I get home...I just can't lift anything heavy or drive. Is my mom comfortable moving the babies? No. My mother is not comfortable with snakes...and the problem is that Cee Cee will try to bite anyone that sticks their hand in that enclosure other than me...heck, she still false strikes at me if I stick my hand in there too quickly. But my mother will do whatever I need her to do...she does actually care about the snakes. I told her to wear gloves because Cee Cee is going to bite her when she reaches in there. I would be much more comfortable if she could get the babies out of there...but I do worry about that...Cee Cee's enclosure is not easy to get in and out of. Perhaps I should move Cee Cee into the tank with the slide lock lid and put her on paper towels....set thing up for her to have the babies...and then if she has them the babies could just stay in there with her? Would they be okay with her? But then, see, I worry that will stress Cee Cee if I move her out of her normal surroudings that she is comfortable in now. Ugh! Help! Suggestions! I'm going to start a thread I think...

[EasternGirl]

I'm worried about Seeley. I have been concerned about him for a while now...there was the whole going off of food for two months thing during the winter...and he has never been a hearty eater to begin with. He seems to be less active...and more docile...I thought maybe he was just getting used to me...but I'm thinking he has just gotten too calm...he doesn't flee like he used to...he just sits there when I approach him and he doesn't struggle like he used to when I hold him...he justs seems too calm. I have also noticed that his skin feels rough and a bit hard to me...and it sounds crackly when I hold him near my ear...like I can hear his scales or almost as if I can hear his bones...it's very hard to explain. It isn't a retained shed. He just shed a perfect shed and he has no signs of any retained skin. Has anyone ever observed this with one of their snakes? Like a crackly popping sound when the snake moves and the skin feeling kind of harder than it should? I also weighed him and he only weighs 30 grams.

[kibakiba]

Sometimes when I hold my snakes a few days after eating, they make a pop sound when I hold them. It's just the food contents in their stomach sloshing around I think.

I think he might just be maturing. When snakey turned 4 his scales got really rough and he got a lot more docile. The roughness is just his keeled scales.

[EasternGirl]

Well...he hasn't eaten. I'm trying to get him to eat now. He won't eat before a shed...so he skipped his last feeding. I put some pinky in his enclosure a little while ago...I moved him into his own enclosure to eat because Cee Cee will steal his food...but he's not eating. I don't know...Cee Cee doesn't feel rough like he does...it almost reminds me of the crackly way that snake Sammy that I found skin was...the snake that died. It's like his skin is rough and he feels crackly on the inside...it's so hard to explain. It doesn't look like anything is wrong with his skin though. He seems kind of lethargic to me. Something just doesn't seem right. I've started moving him out of Cee Cee's enclosure at night because I think that it is too warm in there for him...since I keep it warm for her because of her breathing problems at night. I will just keep an eye on him and if I can observe anything else I will let you guys know...thanks.

[EasternGirl]

Updates on the snakes: I decided to go and buy some reptibark yesterday and switch the tanks over. I was just thinking that the aspen I had was too splintery...I really did not care for it...and it was not controlling odor at all. Cee Cee can be kind of a stinky snake sometimes and her enclosure was really beginning to smell! Poor stinky Ceecers. Lol. Anyway...funniest thing...after I switched the substrate over in the tanks...apparently Possum and Hermes really loved the new reptibark...and I also put a new plant in their enclosure. They were out...which you all know is unusual for my hermit albinos...and exploring the enclosure and playing all night! Seriously...from the time I changed the substrate around 9pm last night until about 2am when I went to bed...they were out playing around having a blast. I was so happy to see them out and active.

On the Cee Cee front...there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is gravid. I picked her up to move her to change her substrate yesterday. I had not handled her in a while because I haven't wanted to stress her. She is huge...definitely gravid looking not fat. And heavy. I see bumps. Whether or not she will have live young still remains to be seen...after all of the stillborns last year. Could be jellies or stillborns...I don't know. Hoping for healthy babies...whatever the case, I'm thinking something will happen soon. Let's just wait two days Cee Cee....let me get my surgery over with...please. If she does have healthy babies...I will be looking for homes for the little scrubs when they are old enough to go...so if anyone is looking for easterns....

Seeley seems okay for now...I am going to try to feed everyone today...hoping he will eat. He still has not eaten since before his shed. He seems very protective of Cee Cee right now....he was giving her a lot of space for the last couple of weeks and now over the past couple of days he has been lying on top of her...not getting fresh or anything....just acting very protective. I will move him out of the enclosure tomorrow morning before I go to the hospital and take Cee Cee's water dish out and put a shallow dish in just in case. :) I should be home tomorrow night....Thursday morning at the latest. I will come on and let everyone know when I am home.

[Light of Dae]

Good to hear everyone is doing good :) As well that they are enjoying the Reptile bark... I've been considering switching to it as George still won't eat when I'm watching n I worry that he doesn't stay off the aspen with the food... I mean its small enough bites that he should travel with it but... never know.

[EasternGirl]

I still move all of mine out and into a feed tank with carefresh in it and a dish towel down on top of that for feeding. Except for Cee Cee...because she eats from hemostats and sticks her head out of her tank. All of the snakes have their particular feeding ritual....Hermes still has to have his dish put under a hide and then I have to stick him in the hide. Seeley has his dish on top of paper towels or a dish towel and then I cover the tank with a towel so he can have privacy. Possum will just eat from a dish on top of the dish towel...and Cee Cee likes to be fed from the hemostats.

[kibakiba]

All of mine have funky feeding rituals.. haha. Like, my babies... They only eat if I'm holding them and feed them, which makes it impossible to have a food fight... Snakey will only eat his pinkies if it's cold... thumbelina has to be held, and he has a mental issue and has to wave his head around until he sees it fit to bite the food... Runt has to go into a half-quart critter keeper with her halved pinkies, since hemostat feeding just scares her to death... Snap likes having her food wiggled, and she won't grab it without having to chase it sometimes. Lol, I have weird snakes!

[EasternGirl]

All the snakies are fed and happy...except for Seeley of course, who only took a couple of bites. Will move him in the morning before I leave.

[EasternGirl]

I almost forgot to give you guys an update...you probably guessed by now...no Cee Cee babies while I was in the hospital. She is hiding a lot in her warm cave though. All the snakes are fine...my mother said my son did a great job keeping an eye on temps and water and helping her turn lights on and off for me while I was gone. Now...if I could just get him to interact with the snakes a bit more. He did hold Hermes for a minute last week...I guess that's progress! :)

[katach]

That is good. Baby steps...

[EasternGirl]

He's convinced that Hermes is the only snake that he can hold because Hermes is the only snake that would never bite him...lol. Now, it may be true that Hermes would never bite him...I'm not sure Hermes even knows what biting a person is...I have never seen him even false strike before. But, Possum and Seeley would never bite him either...they are both the sweetest snakes. Cee Cee is another story...ha ha!

[EasternGirl]

Update on the snakes: Cee Cee is hiding a lot these days. She will poke her head out to greet me when I call to her...but that's about it. I'm hoping that maybe this means that she is going to shed soon and maybe get the ball rolling on whatever is going to happen...be it babies, or jellies, or stillborns. She basically moves from her warm hide during the day to her cool hide at night and other than that, she isn't very active at all. She has been like this since I got home from the hospital. Seeley has decided to mimic her behavior and hide constantly as well. He still hasn't eaten much...I think he may have eaten one or two bites the last feeding, but that's it. The albinos have been more active. They have been coming out at night to play and explore a lot. Possum loves his new plant...he likes to play peek-a-boo games with me from inside the plant. I made another moist hide for Hermes inside his coconut hide...since he likes moist hides so much. The have a favorite little cardboard box hide on the warm side of the enclosure that they curl up together under. They wrap themselves around each other and sleep under it together all the time.

[EasternGirl]

Fed the snakes today. Got some fresh farm-raised tilapia on sale at the market...fed the snakes and then cut the fillets up into meal size portions and wrapped, bagged, and froze it. For the first time ever, Cee Cee cut her self off from eating before I stopped offering food. Something is up. Perhaps something will happen soon. Usually she eats as if the world is ending tomorrow and she must fight to the death for her last meal. Today, she was polite and shy and stopped eating after about six bites of fish, wiped her mouth, pooped, took a drink, and went back into her warm hide to sleep. Curious. I discovered Tilapia is Possum's favorite meal. He finished his entire plate and was going crazy looking for more...dragging his big fat belly around and popping his head up looking all over the tank for more fish. Hermes ate all of his fish too. Seeley...is still sitting in his tank with his darn plate of fish refusing to eat. I even took it out and put Reptamin on it. This is the third feed that he has refused now. His neck is looking skinny again. He was just starting to finally plump up. I guess it's time to get the worms out again. Worms always seem to do the trick with him. I haven't fed any of the snakes any worms in a while anyway. I need to get more worms...I don't like the way my worms have been looking.

[EasternGirl]

Some new pics. First off, you have to see how big Cee Cee is and the scale spread on this girl!

4737 Then...what got her into this.... 4738 Just hangin' around with her man...4739

[guidofatherof5]

♪All around the mulberry bush
Marnie chased the Cee Cee;
Marnie thought 'twas all in fun,
Pop! goes the Cee Cee♪

[EasternGirl]

That made me Lol..Steve. That's what I'm saying, if something doesn't come out of her soon...I think she is going to explode! :D

[EasternGirl]

Almost forgot to post this pic of Seeley...he found a new place to lounge....

4741

[guidofatherof5]

Nice.
No recent photos of Cee Cee up there?:D

[EasternGirl]

That would be interesting! Poor girl can barely get in her hides. Poor Seeley can't get in the hides with her anymore so he just lies on top of the hides with his head dangling down inside so that he can be close to her...it's so sad!

[gregmonsta]

Ledge love :D ... some snakes just can't stay away from them.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I had a first this evening with Cee Cee. She rarely musks me...she has to be really scared or upset to do it. She has been very defensive and skiddish lately...because of her condition I am guessing. I haven't been handling her because of that. But I looked in on her today and she had something sticking out of her mouth...a little slither of wood or something, I'm not sure. I had to reach in and grab at her mouth and swat at it repeatedly to try to get it...you have to be very careful putting your fingers up to Cee Cee's mouth. So, she was already getting upset and defensive because she thought I was trying to attack her or something...poor thing...but the thing was still in her mouth, so I grabbed her and took her out of the enclosure and she basically emptied her bowels, bladder...everything....all over me and the floor. She completely turned her vent area inside out and just unleashed. Poor thing. She was freaked out for the rest of the afternoon. She has never been like that with me before. The only time I ever saw her do that is when I took her to the vet. I even tried to give her a pinky head to make it up to her...but she wouldn't eat. I feel so bad now. :(

[chris-uk]

Sounds like a proper venting. :) Our Cuitzeos are the only ones that void themselves so perfectly on occasions.

I don't think snakes work like kids, you can't upset them then bribe them with sweets (in this case a pinky head) to make them forgive you. Garters are too intelligent for that. ;)

[mikem]

You need to get you a pair of hemostats or long tweezers for situations like this. If a piece of substrate is sticking out of their mouth, then you can grab it with them and it doesn't stress them as much as trying to remove it with your fingers. Harder to take a poop blast this way :)

[EasternGirl]

I do have a pair...I just didn't even think of it. I just saw her and reached in and tried to get it with my fingers. Good advice though, Mike. Next time she has something on her face, I will use the hemostats. Thanks. :)

[BUSHSNAKE]

a long pair of tweezers is one of the first things i bought...i use them for everything, i couldnt live without them...ive used them probably everyday for the past 15 years and i still have them...they are like my third hand at this point

[EasternGirl]

Well, I don't have long tweezers. I have many pairs of regular tweezers and a pair of hemostats that I use for feeding Cee Cee. Where do you buy long tweezers?

[guidofatherof5]

Amazon.com: Used and New: Zoo Med Stainless Steel Feeding Tongs, 10-Inch (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0006L2Y7A/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new)

[EasternGirl]

Thanks!

[EasternGirl]

Seriously...anyone who has not experienced the personality of garters has to get a garter snake. Possum is just downright hysterical. He plays games with me. He loves to play peek-a-boo games with me....and I know you guys know what I mean when I say that there is no way I can actually describe it so that you will get the full "cuteness" and amazing interaction that occurs between us...but he just does this little thing every night where he comes out of his hide and then he goes into his plants and pops his head out looking for me....then he pops it back in...then he sees me and shoots straight out of the plant toward my face...it's so hysterical. Then he goes in his hide and pops his head out and gets the silliest look on his face, and as soon as I look at him he pops his head back in. Then he waits...and pops his head back out again. If I walk away...he will come out and look all over for me. I think I am going to cut bigger holes in his cardboard hides though. I have figured out that with his neuro problems, I think he gets "lost" in the hides sometimes. He seems to have trouble finding the little hole to get out. I think he will do much better if I make bigger holes in the hides. He and Hermes are so cute...at any given time, I can lift up a hide and find the two of them coiled around each other.

[EasternGirl]

Getting concerned about Cee Cee at this point. The theory last summer was that she retained her litter and began to reabsorb the babies...she passed 30 stillborns that were very dried up and deformed looking. Wayne told me that most likely since I took her in when she was gravid (I did not know she was gravid when I took her in...and I had to take her in or she would have been killed by a lawnmower) she probably went into protective mode and retained her litter. She was lucky that she didn't go septic. She is so huge now...and I am thinking she has been gravid for a while...she needs to have her litter or whatever she is carrying. I'm worried that she may try to retain this one too and she could go septic. She is such a skiddish snake...she trusts me more than anyone else, but she barely trusts me. Steve mentioned a warm bath to get things going...but holding her stresses her out to begin with...and she really doesn't want to be handled now...and she gets freaked out being put in water. I'm afraid of stressing her out. I have to go out for a while...but thoughts, suggestions? Should I take her to the vet? God...a trip to the vet would be so stressful, she probably couldn't handle it right now. That would really put her in protective mode.

[kibakiba]

I'd say don't take her to a vet yet. You've seen pictures of other peoples gravid garters, she's not much bigger than that. If you stress her out any more, she's likely to retain those too.

[EasternGirl]

Well, Cee Cee is now refusing food. I'm wondering if this means that she is getting close to delivering? She looks like her skin is getting dull and dusty too...like a shed may be approaching. She did come out of her hide to look at me a couple of times tonight...and to get a drink of water and poop. Mike suggested that maybe I try covering her enclosure with a towel to give her some privacy...I did that, but she seems to want to be able to look out and around. I am keeping it covered at night though. I moved Seeley into another enclosure. She literally turned her head away when I tried to offer her some pinkies tonight. We'll see...I'll keep everyone posted.

[kimbosaur]

I'm so excited for you! Hope you get lots of healthy little ones. :)

[mikem]

Sounds like she's getting close. :D

[EasternGirl]

Thanks...I'm not letting myself get excited because of the fact that she had stillborns last summer and because of the fact that she wasn't brumated. This could also be a stored sperm situation since I never actually saw Seeley and her lock up. Steve explained that if it is a stored sperm situation, that lessens the chances of her having live young as well. At this point I am just worried for her...I just want her to do something soon...to get whatever is inside of her out safely and come out of the whole ordeal healthy. If she has some healthy live little ones, that will be an added bonus...and then I will get excited once I know Cee Cee is okay. She is my special girl. :)

[mikem]

I understand that. It's always stressful when there's uncertainties involved.

[EasternGirl]

Yep...I'm just a nervous mother at this point. :)

[mikem]

well, Marnie, what's going on? ;)

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee had one live baby this morning. It's the tiniest thing I have ever seen. How small are baby garters supposed to be when they are born? It seems okay right now. I put it in a separate tank on paper towels. She doesn't seem to be delivering anything else though....she is still restless. Could she have just one baby? The baby is so small I am not getting my hopes up at this point...I'll just have to see how he/she does. It's the cutest little thing I've ever seen though!

[EasternGirl]

Oh...and I know nothing about taking care of babies. I put a heat lamp on one side of the tank...am I supposed to do that with babies? And when should I try to feed him...and how often should I feed him? Is there anything else I should know about caring for him or more babies if she should have more?

[mikem]

It could take a while. Give her some time. Maybe someone else with a bit more experience can chime in.

[Invisible Snake]

I've read in a book that you should feed them after their first shed, which will happen in about 7-10 days. A great first meal would be live guppies because the baby snake will get excited by the smell and movement of the guppies.

[EasternGirl]

Oh...and btw..when I say tiny...this baby is only about two inches long tops and it's head is not much bigger than Cee Cee's eye. The worst thing is that I have to leave for a couple of hours...I will let you guys know what's going on when I get back.

At this point, a guppy is bigger than this baby.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...wait..I'm looking...he is longer than two inches...but he's really tiny. I have a pic:

4873 I'm going to say about 4 inches long.

[mikem]

Haha, you're so funny, Marnie! You are indeed a nervous mother! :D That looks completely normal to me.

[PhillyDude]

Congrats!

[ScimitarX]

yep, looks about the right size for a baby garter, they really are the cutest. a low wattage heatlamp should be ok, as long as it doesnt get too hot and dehydrate the little one.Good luck with him/her, its gonna fun chopping up the food.

waiting for my girl to have some babies too as shes defininately gravid. As for Cee Cee, keep an eye on her and dont disturb her too much, she may have more, she might not. Congrats on the first one anyway :)

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking little scrub. Congrats.

[chris-uk]

Congratulations Marnie. Still just the one?

[EasternGirl]

Yep...I just got back home and still just the one...she, I'm going with she at this point, although Julian has already named her Zeus and decided it is a boy...is doing okay it seems. I'm just so afraid I will hurt her...I've already dropped her twice...she's fast and she slithered out of my hand. Julian seems to be more excited about snakes now...he is the one who found her...and he has been on watch all day for more babies. I think if the little one makes it, this just might be Julian's first snake. Cee Cee is still very restless...so, maybe she will have some more. I have little Zeus in a 20 gallon tank...because it is very secure with a slide lock lid...there is a 40 watt regular bulb in a dome lamp..is that too much? I have a little lid of water...a little carefresh because she likes to burrow. How do I keep her well hydrated? And is that correct that I wait until her first shed to feed her? Thanks for all the help you guys! :)

[ScimitarX]

40 watt is great, and the rest sounds good too. As for feeding, it never hurts to try, some feed right away, others take longer. Probably best to start with fish and/or worms and reeally tiny pieces at that.

[EasternGirl]

Is there something I should be doing to ensure that she stays hydrated? Should I put moist paper towels or a moist moss hide in the tank? I have a little plastic lid with water in it...but I haven't seen her try to drink any water yet. Thanks for all the advice. I was going to try feeding little tiny fish pieces to start. I will try offering her some later tonight.

[mikem]

something really shallow that she can get out of if needed and the occasional misting. maybe a damp paper towel. as long as there's a water source in the enclosure, they'll find it.

[guidofatherof5]

Is there something I should be doing to ensure that she stays hydrated? Should I put moist paper towels or a moist moss hide in the tank? I have a little plastic lid with water in it...but I haven't seen her try to drink any water yet. Thanks for all the advice. I was going to try feeding little tiny fish pieces to start. I will try offering her some later tonight.

For the first week of life I give all my babies forced pool time everyday.
To keep them hydrated, to give them some exercise and help remove any leftover first shed.
It also gives me a chance to see all the snakes to see if there are any problems.

[mikem]

Good advice :)

[Eight]

CONGRATULATIONS!! that is one cute little guy :) I can't wait to breed some snakes for the first time. Have any more appeared yet?

[mikem]

CONGRATULATIONS!! that is one cute little guy :)
Cute as a panda! :D

[EasternGirl]

Thanks you guys! So far, I think she has Cee Cee's attitude and Seeley's big head and eyes...lol. She's a cutie...she likes to play peek-a-boo already and sit in my palm. I gave her a moist hide with sphagnum moss, and a little fake bush that I misted with water. Steve suggested I put a big shallow water dish in for her and try to find some tiny worms in my yard for her to try. She wasn't interested in the worms yet though. I'll try some bits of tilapia tomorrow. Still no more action from Cee Cee...but she's still restless...

[EasternGirl]

I'm worried about Cee Cee now...she has vomited a couple of times tonight. She hasn't eaten in a while. Is this something that can normally happen when snakes are in labor? Does this just have to do with contractions upsetting her stomach? She hasn't had any more babies since the one this morning...no jellies...no stillborns. She is still very restless...and now the vomiting.

[mikem]

What does the vomit look like? Are you sure it's vomit or is it coming out the other end? I've never heard of this... hope she's okay!

[mikem]

Any updates? Cee Cee doing okay? Anymore babies? How's Zeus?

[EasternGirl]

Zeus is hanging in there...it took me forever to find the little thing just now in that big tank...he/she was curled around the little bush I put in there. I tried to put him in the water dish several times last night to get him to drink...but he just swam around for a second and then jumped out. I'm going to take him out in a little while and put him in a small kritter keeper I have and try to feed him some fish and maybe try to get him to swim a little. I'm also going to go this weekend and look at smaller tanks for him. Cee Cee is still really restless...she keeps tearing apart her enclosure. I just did another baby sweep...no babies. It was definitely vomit I saw...I saw her gagging...but I don't see anything else as of yet today. Will keep you guys posted.

[mikem]

Alright, thanks for the update!

[EasternGirl]

I just made a video of little Zeus...it's uploading on youtube now. Not the most exciting video in the world...but at least it will give you guys a chance to see the little fellow! I'll post it when it's ready.

Oh...and I found out Zeus really likes to swim! :)

[mikem]

Looking forward to seeing him in action!

[Eight]

me too. Any chance to see a snake vid. I hope Cee Cee is ok and everything is resolved soon, and I hope you get some more babies :)

[EasternGirl]

It looks like Cee Cee vomited again. I don't know what is going on with that. She is still extremely restless. She did let me take her out of her enclosure tonight...it still feels like she has something inside her to me. Zeus was not interested in eating any fish tonight. Seeley finally ate...now that I finally got some worms yesterday. Possum shed a perfect shed. I'm almost finished with the Zeus video...something went wrong earlier and I had to download it again.

[kibakiba]

What is the colour of the vomit? If its a clearish colour, to red streaked and yellow, or a combination of those it could just be birthing fluid stuff and/or broken jellybeans.

[EasternGirl]

I t looks like mucous...it's clear to whitish...but I saw her vomit once and she was gagging a lot. I think it's coming from her mouth. Anyway...here is the video of Zeus:
http://youtu.be/YlprIwHwBN8

[guidofatherof5]

Zeus is looking good.

[chris-uk]

Good looking scrub, looks like he's finding his feet nicely.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks you guys. :) He likes to swim in his water dish, so I know he is staying hydrated, but he hasn't shown any interest in food yet. Perhaps today I will try Wayne's garter goulash...I forgot about trying that...he told me he used that with his babies. I know my snakes usually can't resist the taste of Reptamin. Zeus seemed a little cold this morning...I have him in a little kritter keeper right now...I know the lids can be dangerous for garters, but he is to small to climb up the sides at this point and I am keeping a very close eye on him. I will be going to get him a little 5 gallon tank soon. Right now I have him sitting on Julian's dresser with the kritter keeper positioned so that one side is under a desk lamp with a 40 watt bulb in in...seems to give him ample light and a little heat. It seems today he has discovered the eastern garter trait of being skiddish. He has decided he is going to hide when I walk into the room and look at him. Lol.

Cee Cee still looks gravid and is still very restless. I have considered the possibility that Zeus may have popped out a little early. Perhaps there are more babies still to come...when I took her out of her enclosure last night, it still felt as though she has baby bumps. Will keep you all posted.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Congrats on little Zeus, such a cute big head he seems to have...

[mikem]

Great video of little Zeus! He's so tiny and cute! :D

[kueluck]

Wonderful addition you have, and if this is your first born I can imagine how special he/she is. I hope that CeeCee gets through this quickly and comes out super health when finished.

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee had another baby! I had put her in with Seeley this afternoon for a little while because she was so restless and kept trying to get out of her enclosure. I just went to look in on Seeley and there was a little scrub curled up with him...they were sleeping together under the heat lamp. It was so adorable! I had no idea that she had a baby while she was in with him. I checked his enclosure carefully for more babies and did not find any more. I checked her enclosure as well. I definitely think this baby is a girl...:D...I will call her Ariadne. Of course, if Cee Cee has more babies, I will not be able to tell them apart soon!

[guidofatherof5]

Congrats on the second little scrub. Hope you get some more.
How's Cee Cee doing?

[EasternGirl]

Well, she's still pretty restless. Other than that, she seems to be doing well. She is oddly bonding with me...she wants to climb up my arm every time I put my hand in her enclosure now. She wasn't too thrilled about being in with Seeley today..he was trying to get some action and she was swatting him across the tank with her tail. But apparently it stimulated another baby to pop out. Now that she is letting me handle her...I will try giving her a warm soak later tonight or in the morning. I want her to get any more babies out soon.

[kibakiba]

I think she wants on your arm because she finds it comforting. The day before Mama gave birth she just hung out with me. She didn't want me touching her while she was in the process, though.

[EasternGirl]

Right...up until a couple of days ago, she would strike at me or hide from me if I came anywhere near her. Now she seems to want to be near me. On another topic...little Ariadne has turned out to be a little escape artist. She figured out right away how to get wet and shimmy up the side of the kritter keeper to the top. As soon as I took the lid off, she was over the side! Therefore, the kritter keeper is no longer a safe place to keep the babies. So, she and Zeus are back in the 20 gallon tank until I can get out tomorrow and try to find something smaller and secure for them. Little Houdini snakes!

[mikem]

Congrats on the second little one! Baby snakes are amazing escape artists. Now, can you tell the difference between your little Zeus and Ariadne? They may end up with an identity crisis :D

[EasternGirl]

Funny that you said that...because I was planning on coming on here and talking about that very thing. It is so amazing how each of these little scrubs has their own little unique personalities. First off, Zeus and Ariadne look different...Zeus has a big round head and big eyes and a lighter colored body. He looks like his dad in the face and head. Ariadne has a long head like her mother, with smaller eyes and a darker body. Zeus also has Seeley's personality. He will come up and just stare at you forever with this cute little bug-eyed look on his face. Ariadne is like her mother, bold and always looking for a way to escape. She likes to curl up and lie right under the heat lamp...but if she sees you looking at her, she will take off and start darting all over the place.

[EasternGirl]

A couple of pics of Zeus and Ariadne poking their little heads up in the substrate...

49004901
Zeus is on the left..Ari is on the right.

[guidofatherof5]

Sweet looking little scrubs.

[mikem]

Haha, took me a second to spot Zeus in the first picture! Great shots :D

[InsanePirateDragon]

Ha, its like 'Where's Waldo. Still the cutest little things.

[EasternGirl]

Lol...yeah...they love to hide in the carefresh. Although, yesterday, I put a 60 watt light bulb in the lamp over the tank I have them in because they felt a little cold to me...and with the increase in light, they were much more active and lying on top of the substrate basking a lot. Still no interest in food though. I chopped up some nightcrawler for them yesterday and tried putting it on a little dish for them and putting their little mouths up to it several times...no go. The hemostats seem to scare them at this point. I have tried small worms, tilapia, garter goulash, and chopped worms. No interest yet. I have them back in the 20 gallon tank until I am able to find something more secure to get for them. I have a shallow water dish in there for them...I make sure to put them in the water a couple of times a day in case they aren't going to it on their own. I also spray the little bush I have in there. I put a pile of moist moss in there which they seem to really like. Cee Cee calmed down and rested finally last night...maybe she is done having babies now. A bit odd that she only had two...we'll see...

[EasternGirl]

Two more babies just now...one live, one stillborn. The stillborn looked curiously like the stillborns that she was reabsorbing last summer. This may be what is happening again...why it is taking her so long to deliver. She may be trying to retain the litter again. She needs to get the rest of this litter out if I hope to see many more live babies. I have to go out in a little while to do more baseball stuff...when I get back I will put her in a warm shed box...maybe that will help...I can't really put her in a warm soak because she will just freak out and jump out of the water, she hates to soak. Do you think putting her in a shed box will help her to get the babies out or make her try to retain them more? Oh...btw...Julian named new baby, Perseus...he really loves those Greek god names!

[guidofatherof5]

Not sure what effect it will have on her. Could go both ways.
Might be best to just let things happen. This has to be your call.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey that's awesome 2 more babies, sorry about the ones that didn't make it.

[mikem]

Congrats on yet another! Whatever you decide to do is okay. She's your girl and you do what you think is best. Personally, I'm with Steve. She's been delivering off and on for a few days now. The extra stress may not be good. Or it could be just what she needs. It's a tough call. One thing I would do for certain, Keep Seeley away from Cee Cee from now on. ;)

Good luck and as always, keep us updated on everything!

[EasternGirl]

Hmmm...I'm not sure what to do. She must know what I'm thinking though, because she's striking at me again. I'm worried if she is trying to retain these babies that more of them will come out stillborn and that she could end up going septic if she doesn't get all of them out. I already got rid of the one stillborn...if she passes another, I will take a pic so that you guys can see what it looks like...it was dried up like the ones she started to reabsorb last summer. I have to go out now. I'll be back in a couple of hours and decide what to do then.

[EasternGirl]

I'm a bit concerned about little Perseus at this point...he is quite thin. He doesn't look as healthy as the other scrubs...he isn't very active either. The other babies are all over the tank...exploring, playing...he just sits in the corner and hides. Time will tell, I guess. Cee Cee is resting...I will let her rest at this point.

[guidofatherof5]

A warm damp shed box might help the little one.

[kueluck]

YEAH for the new additions.:) So sorry about the one loss and hope it stays to just one. :( I know I couldn't take the stress of babies. I would be a Mama on the edge.

[Light of Dae]

Congrats on the three little ones!
If you wanna use the kritter keeper, find a chunk of window screen that is bigger than the top and pinch it down with the lid, makes it safe and escape proof.

[EasternGirl]

That's a good idea with the window screen. They seem to be enjoying the 20 gallon tank right now...but they will have to be moved soon because I'm going to need the tank. I am seriously a mama on the edge...I worry like they are my own babies. Perseus seems to be doing better...he was more active earlier...I just hope everyone makes it through the night. They are all sleeping now. They have a red night bulb on one side of the tank to keep them warm, a shallow water dish, moist moss. I tried to give them some salmon tonight but they still aren't interested. Cee Cee started acting restless again tonight....More updates tomorrow.

[katach]

Congrats on the babies. Hope all turns out well for CeeCee.

[chris-uk]

Don't worry too much about the feeding, they're going to eat when they are ready and you know how long scrubs can go without eating.
I don't know if you shedboxed CeeCee, I think as long as she has somewhere that she feels safe birthing all you can do is give her time. She may be taking her time, but there is nothing you can do to speed her up (unless anyone knows how to induce a snake). If she's got access to a birthing box, and knows it's there, she should use it as she needs to.

Congratulations on the scrubs. Keep calm.

[EasternGirl]

Well...about the time that I thought that she was looking like she was ready to pop, I put a cardboard hide/birthing box on the cool side of her enclosure. The problem at that point was, there wasn't a lot of things that she fit inside anymore...lol. She has her cave on the warm side over the UTH...which she has been spending a lot of time inside of, and the cardboard box on the cool side...which she refuses to go inside of...she just knocks it around the enclosure or goes in back of it. I also drape a towel over her enclosure often to give her privacy. I'm not sure why she doesn't want to go in the box anymore. Now that she is skinnier...I could try to find something else to put in there and see if she will go in it...she will probably just knock it around though. I have been having to move everything out of her enclosure...she barely has anything in there...she just keeps knocking things all over the place!

The babies seem to be doing fine this morning...Cee Cee was restless during the night but is calmer this morning.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I just made Cee Cee a bigger cool hide/birth box...which she seems to like...I made it out of a shoe box. She can also lie on top of it like a platform if she wants. I also put a darker towel over her enclosure...although, she seems to get upset if I cover it all the way and she can't see out...so I just draped it over the enclosure a little. Now she is all over the place again...we'll see what happens now...the babies are out playing this morning...got a cute pic. I am starting to have trouble telling them apart. If I study them up close for a while I can usually figure it out...I think we have Zeus on the left here, under the hide, with Perseus to his right, and Ariadne climbing up the glass.

4942

[guidofatherof5]

Sweet looking little scrubs.

[Invisible Snake]

Cute babies :)

[EasternGirl]

Thanks! Notice this Greek god theme with the names. My son studied the Greek gods in school last year and loves Percy Jackson and the Olympians and Clash of the Titans. :D He is so excited about the babies and having so much fun naming them. This has been such a great experience for getting him more into garters!! Of course, he thinks he is keeping all of the babies also. I told him little Zeus is his snake...Ariadne has already been promised to Mike if she makes it. Depending on how many babies Cee Cee has, we will have to see what happens and how many babies we keep. I will probably be looking to find homes for most of them.

[mikem]

It's great that your son is getting involved! There's a ton of names to use from greek mythology. Lets hope you don't use them all! :D

[kueluck]

Oh my gosh they are adorable!! I love the "whatcha lookin' at" look.

[gregmonsta]

Gotto love those little squigglies :D

[EasternGirl]

See if you can spot the two little heads in this pic...

4949

[Invisible Snake]

Hey Marnie are you going to keep all the babies and raise them?

[mikem]

So cute! :D How's Cee Cee doing this morning?

[Eight]

I'm glad she gave birth to a few more babies. I hope she finishes soon and is well and healthy. I love the pictures, just too cute :)

[EasternGirl]

Cee Cee is a little restless this morning...she climbed up my arm to get out of her enclosure again when I did a baby sweep of the tank. I held one of the babies up for her to see...she seemed to be looking at him. I keep seeing little tiny blobs of mucous in her tank...but it doesn't look like jellies. As far as keeping the babies, I promised my son that he could have little Zeus...he is very attached to him since he was the one that found him when he was born. That means, it will be my son's snake...but I will be caring for him and teaching him how to care for him...as he is just learning about garters! I have promised at least one to Mike because Mike doesn't have any garters yet and we need to get him a garter! I was honored by the fact that he wanted one of my easterns. :). I will be taking one to him when we meet up at the Hamburg Expo in June. I'm not sure about the rest yet. It depends on how many she ends up having when she is finally done. I'm finding myself getting a bit attached to little Perseus....so I may just keep him. If she has any more though, I will want to find homes for them. I guess it also depends on what sex the scrubs turn out to be...and whether I have room for any of them in existing tanks. I'm going to purchase one more tank for them to live in for now...and then I won't have much more room in my house! For example, if Zeus and Perseus both turn out to be male and can live in the new tank that I buy...that works...but if Perseus turns out to be a female and I need another tank, I will probably look for a home for Perseus. Then there is the whole "affording food" factor. I have three snakes coming soon that I already arranged for before Cee Cee had babies. That makes ten snakes total if she doesn't have more babies...and I am a poor nursing student. Good grief! :eek:

[EasternGirl]

A quick question: Should I be keeping night heat on the babies? It's been pretty warm here in DE right now...it was 80 degrees today. I don't want to let them get too cold though, since they are so small. For any of you who don't have experience with eastern babies, they are super tiny! About 4 inches long and heads the size of match heads... I have been keeping a 40 watt red bulb on at night..but I'm wondering if it is bad not to let them cool down at night. I could switch to a 25 watt night bulb.

[guidofatherof5]

I think this is your call Marnie. If they get too warm they will simply thermoregulate.
Just my opinion.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...yes, they seem to know to get out of the heat and go over to the cool side. I think it is better for them to at least have the option to warm up. I'll leave the night bulb on for them. Thanks. Btw...Steve, I think my phone accidently called you earlier...sorry about that! :rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

It did.:D