Is it time just to let her go?

[nekura]

Well, Scylla was wild caught as a baby but remains wild. I was hoping through feeding and her associating me with food she'd calm now. I have a lot of fake foilage in the cage so she will fell safe. However, if you so much as look at her she flees back into the foliage. Lately she hasn't been eating. It could be that she's about to shed. I picked her up to today (I.E. Gently had to chased her around until I got her, then she musked me and bit me twice, which didn't hurt, but made me pretty mad as I've spent a lot of money to make her comfortable and healthy, so I at least want a snake that's not too scared to leave its hidey hole, even to eat.

After biting me I tossed her into a tub of warm water with my turtle (with fish for her) hoping maybe that'd get her to eat something.. plus I don't want to reward her for biting me by just putting her back in the cage. I got her to take food from my hand once, but not it seems she's far more wild than she had been when I caught her. I don't know where I went wrong. I do weekly cage cleanings involving moving her to a temporary location so she has weekly contact with me anyway. I have left my hand in the cage so she could smell and get used to it.. but she just doesn't like people. At all. We're having a warm break at the moment, living in Louisiana, and I caught her in my yard, so I'm wondering if its just time to give up and buy a hand-raised one. I certainly want a water snake that feeds on fish, not mice, because I have a soft spot for rodents. This is why I don't have any larger varieties of snakes. Plus watching them swim is beautiful.

Advice?

EDIT: My profile picture is from when I first caught her. She's a lot bigger now.

[guidofatherof5]

Some wild caught and even captive bred snakes don't adjust.
I deal with a lot of radixes and have only released one w/c back into the wild because of behavior.
It really becomes your call and it also isn't your fault. I don't think it's Scylla's fault either.
It just happens.
It does sound like you've tried about everything.
Releasing would have to be your call.

[infernalis]

The thing about snakes is we have to accept them "as is"

[kibakiba]

I agree with Wayne. Some snakes don't adjust to captivity, but if you do let her go, wait until spring. The cold can kill her, even if it is warm now, if you have a cold snap before she can find a place to go...

My newest wild caught, Hades, is as mean as can be. I don't think he'll ever trust me enough to not bite or musk when he sees me. For me, that's okay. He doesn't like me even if I love him more than anything. I respect that and give him the space he wants. Even with a captive bred one, they may not ever adjust to you. Snap was captive bred, and was calm with Richard but doesn't want anything to do with me usually. You just have to learn to accept that if you plan on keeping them.

[EasternGirl]

I agree with Wayne and Chantel. We choose to make snakes our pets...they do not choose to become our pets. Imagine what it must be like for them...scared and unable to understand what it is that we want from them. You have tried to do what you can do to make her comfortable, this is true...but this does not guarantee that she will do what you want her to do or be the snake that you want her to be. You may have to just accept her for the snake that she is and love her as she is. It is your call in the end...but I hope that you will consider waiting until it is consistently warm outside in the spring if you choose to release her into the wild. If you do..just continue to make her life the best captive life possible until then and know that you did your best. Also..she doesn't understand that she is doing something to upset you when she bites you...she is just protecting herself...it is her instinct. I have a snake that is a wonderful pet, I can hold her and she has adjusted to being captive...but she still strikes at me and nips me now and again...it's just her nature. Even the most docile snakes bite sometimes because they are snakes.

[nekura]

Thanks for the clarity. I have no problem keeping her until spring (that's why the turtle's here too, he's going in our pond). I'm just worried about her being stressed and not eating. She might be about to shed though.. Should I force contact with her more often via giving her swims in the tub? She just gets so upset when people approach it makes me feel bad.

[chris-uk]

Two choices really:
- decide now that you are going to let her go in the Spring, and in that case I'd minimise contact with her - so just feed her, keep her viv clean etc, and observe her without trying to pick her up. Enjoy watching a garter behaving how garters do.
Or,
- decide to decide what to do in the Spring. In which case I'd go for slowly increasing contact like you've been doing, however from what you've said I wouldn't be holding out a lot of hope for a change as it's been several months already.

Personally, in your position I'd most likely go with the first option. You've said that you want a snake that isn't scared of you and you can interact with, and it sounds like this one isn't going to be that snake. Of course the third option would be to keep her as a "watching snake" and get another garter as well - depends on your space and whether you can realistically keep more than one snake.

[kibakiba]

You can hold your hand in the tank, not touching her but show her that you're not going to hurt her. Mine trust me more when I work in their tanks more often. They usually will come up and sniff my hand and slither over it.

[Light of Dae]

Tough call, Personally I'd increase contact and interaction... Just basically see how she takes it. I'd handle her every other day. That's what I've done with my captive born Radix because I wanted her to trust me more and for her to realize I wasn't going to hurt her I had to show her that. It's been a frustrating but rewarding challenge and now she is getting better. Instead of trying to flee up the glass or fly around the tank when I am cleaning it she will at first be like WHOA... oh its you, and come n 'sniff' my hand n see what I'm doing to her home.

Mind you she's never bitten me or musked me, but I did luck out at her being captive born, however that don't mean she was tame. She used to freak out and try to escape any time she saw me. And until I started handling her more then once a week for feeding, she didn't settle. I also increased how often I feed her just to interact with her more as well. She LOVES chopped worms n salmon fillet chunks with just a drop or two of water.

Ever hear the saying 'The way to a mans heart is through his stomach' ? I think that goes for all snakes, and all animals as well lol

But it's your call, either way though you gotta keep her till spring so... As long as she is still eating, what could it hurt (other then your hand missing little bits of flesh..) lol

[Selkielass]

It's mid winter, andmany snakes are off their food for the winter and would just as soon be left alone.
If by late spring, her temper doesn't seem to improve, it may be that she simply has a grumpy or skittish temperament.
For non- rodent eaters, consider a checkered (They love fish, tho they will happily eat just about anything.) or if you can get nightcrawlers easily in your area, consider a Butlers Garter- they thrive happily on earthworms and small fish, and will sun themselves contentedly on small twigs in their tank for most of the day. (Steves like to dissappear into greenery, but mine seem quite secure twined in among twisty twigs. I can see them, but they feel secure among the twigs.)

They stay small tho- only about 20-24 inches. If you want a larger snake then look at checkered or other larger species that likes fish.

[nekura]

Thank you all. I would really like to keep her. I was just questioning what was best for her, but from what you said (and considering our dogs' favorite hobby is killing snakes in the yard) I think I'll try to keep her indefinitely and just get her to at least stop face slamming the mesh anytime I go to put food in the tank.

As for a "watcher snake" she knows when we're looking at her. She'll stare at us then back away into her hiding spot. My boyfriend said yesterday he looked at her from half-way across the room as she came out to get water, she stopped, looked at him, and backed away.

[guidofatherof5]

What species is your snake?

[chris-uk]

She sounds like two of our snakes (a Cuitzeo and a Western Blackneck) which will often back off into their hides as soon as they realise you're looking at them. But they are both getting better. You haven't seen quick movement until you've seen our Cuitzeo pull back into his hide - 12 inches of snake disappearing in the blink of an eye.

Hopefully yours will get better over time.

[EasternGirl]

My eastern garters were both wild caught and they are still very skiddish but they have come around a lot. They still hide from me, they still squirm and try to get away when I hold them...although the male eventually calms down, and the female still strikes at me. But they do come out to look at me and the female will take food from tongs from me...she will even pop her head out to look at me if I tap on the glass of her enclosure. The male seems to be getting much calmer when I hold him and doesn't flee when I put my hands in the enclosure anymore. Like Chantel said, try putting your hand in the tank and just leaving it there and give the snake time to come to you without trying to pick her up...take it slowly, step by step.

[nekura]

She's an Eastern Ribbon I believe.

@EasternGirl how long did it take for them to warm up? If anything it seems Scylla is becoming more wild.. but at least she's living up to her name, heh. Perhaps I should get some tongs? Like I said she hasn't eaten recently.. could be because its winter, but in LA we don't get super cold and her cage is right by my computer which I keep at 70-80 so I don't think she'd try to bruminate.. not to mention the heating lamp on her.

How long can a snake go without eating?

[katach]

I've released a snake for lack of adjustment. Her name was Kendra, she was an old girl. She really hated captivity though. I have her about a week or so. She just kept bumping the glass and pushing on the top. She would musk (a lot) when handled. Our other 5 wild caught seemed to adjust within a couple days.
A random completely unsubstantiated thought... What if you got another garter that was more adjusted and housed them together (after quarantine period)? Maybe if your snake saw the other being handled and loved on, it would come around a little. Good luck.

[EasternGirl]

If she is a ribbon snake that may be your answer...ribbon snakes can be very skiddish and do not like handling as much from what I understand. I have had my male eastern garter (a garter is different than a ribbon snake understand) for a little over a year now and my female since last May. Now what Kat suggested may be a very good idea...many of us have seen skiddish snakes come around after having a roommate put in with them...but I do not know if you can put a garter in with a ribbon snake or if you would have to get another ribbon. You would have to make sure they are both female so that you don't end up with a bunch of babies.

She won't brumate at those temps. Snakes can go a while without eating...mine have gone over a month. If she is skiddish, she probably won't eat from tongs. What are you feeding her? Has she shed yet? You could try putting her food on a dish under her hide...she may eat if she feels more secure and that no one is watching her. Also, try covering her tank halfway with a towel. This may make her feel more secure as well. Does she have plenty of places to hide and burrow?

[nekura]

She's been eating Sally's Silversides. I have put the food under her hide and she did shed, but I think she may be shedding again.. I did have another snake (a sibling) with her that died of unknown causes, both wild caught. We only have ribbons in my yard, but its winter so we won't be finding any. It's been about a week since she ate, so I guess no cause for concern?

[chris-uk]

How big is she? Adults can go months without eating (I think I read a post from a member saying their snake had gone 4 months...), even juveniles can go for a couple months although I'd worry sooner with a snake that doesn't have a good feeding track record.

You could put a similar sized garter in with the ribbon. Steve has a ribbon in with his best group of radix females to try to calm her, it seems to be working for him slowly.

[nekura]

She's usually a gluten. She's a lot bigger now... I'd say 6 inches long? Maybe more?

[EasternGirl]

Hmmm. Okay..well first of all, if she is getting ready to shed, she will be way more skiddish and will not want to be bothered or handled at all. My snakes want to hide and be left totally alone before a shed...most snakes do. This is when they are most vunerable to prey in the wild, so they are very defensive...it's best to leave them alone before a shed. Like Chris said...if she is young and small, she will not be able to go as long without eating...but if she is getting ready to shed, that would explain her going off food. Many snakes go off food before a shed. My baby albino was only four months and he went two weeks without food...and my eastern was a year old...and only about 10 inches and went a month once. As long as she doesn't look really skinny and she isn't acting sick, she should be fine. Continue to offer food..under her hide...every couple of days. She will eat when she is hungry enough. Now...I do think putting another snake in with her would be a good idea. But it is important to make sure you have two females and two compatible species. Are you sure she is a girl? Would it be possible to get a pic of her held up showing her underside near the bottom of her tail so that we could determine her sex? We could also help make sure of the kind of snake she is. Let me show you a pic of one of my snakes holding him up to determine sex...

3681 There is a vent at the bottom of the underside of the tail...we need to see that area...if you can hold her up for a pic...be careful if she is squirming not to hurt her...if she is too squirmy or scared right now because she may be shedding...you may have to wait.

[nekura]

I already posted pictures of her vent and everyone said she was female. Also reading back on my older posts she's a western ribbon, not an eastern.

These are two different snakes. I don't know which is Scylla, but everyone said both were female. The other one died of unknown causes awhile back.

3685 368636873688

She ate a silverside today, so I guess no problems.


And this is her as a baby (I was worried about that bump, but it went away):

3689

[EasternGirl]

Oh okay...sorry I didn't realize someone had already sexed her based on pics before. Yeah...I agree..from pics...she looks female. So now we just have to make sure if you find another snake that it is female before you put them in together...and that it is a type of snake that can be housed with her. Also, you will have to quarantine the new snake...house her in a separate enclosure and keep her away from Scylla for 3-4 months to make sure she is healthy before you put them together. I'm glad to hear that she ate...that's good news!