Hey guys !! Im new to snake some help ?

[GarterGuy17]

Im looking for a CBB Baby red sided garter , been looking for months any help ?
Already checked king snake classifieds and other breeders no luck.

[guidofatherof5]

GarterGuy17,

You have not been approved to receive messages just yet.
I have baby Red Sided albino hets for sale.
If you would like to call me I can be reached at 712-587-1128 or I'd be glad to call you just give me a number.
You can email me a number at guidofatherof5@cox.net

[GarterGuy17]

Hey guys , My name is john i'm 19 trying to get my first snake which I decided was going to be a garter.Im hopefully trying to get a red sided garter but no luck. Any advice for the new guy ? It would help a lot. Thanks :D

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[infernalis]

Hello, You will find that you will have your best luck in the spring time, That's when the breeders offer baby snakes.

Use the time between then and now to get everything around for your new snake.

A good starting point would be the most excellent garter snake care sheet, found here....


Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)



http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum.
A great place to start would be the care sheet.

I have Red Sided albino hets available.

Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[infernalis]

Steve, I moved your post where it's more likely that John will see it. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Steve, I moved your post where it's more likely that John will see it. ;)

Thanks.

[GarterGuy17]

Well I have been looking for the supplies as well. Since The snake which I want to get is a baby I want out and got a 5 gallon tank which is just about all I got for now.I want my snakes to be active and all so i'm not sure if to get a heat pad or a lamp , I read somewhere that they are more active with a light source.The substrate i'm going to use is paper towels so that's not a problem. Also the artificial plants and water bowl plus feeding items are not a problem.Any idea on what would be better heat pad or a lamp ?

[guidofatherof5]

That can be a personal preference.
I use heat pads(with rheostats) on all my enclosures.
A 5 gal. will get small fast. Starting with a 20 gal. will allow a lot of space to explore and you won't have to worry about upgrading for a good amount of time.

[GarterGuy17]

I guess your right on that note about the tank.I will look further into the whole lamp vs heat pad difference.

This is my email. May I see some pictures of your Albino red sided het ?

[GarterGuy17]

C.John417@aol.com <-------My email also if anyone have any pictures of your setup that will also be helpful thanks.

[GarterGuy17]

Well I guess ill be looking into a 20 gal tank, should have done that in the first place. @guidofatherof5 - Other than that on to the topic of your albino het. Can you email me some pictures ? and if you know the age , sex and things like that. Also is it CBB ?

C.John417@aol.com <----- My email if anyone could send me some pictures of your setups so I can have a better idea of things , it would help a lot thanks.

[EasternGirl]

Here is a pic of one of my enclosures. Make sure you have good substrate....I prefer carefresh. A hide on both the warm side and the cool side, lots of plants and some logs or wood (just make sure it is treated for mites/heat treated), vines are good too. Make sure you have a water dish that the snake can soak in but that he/she can easily get out of. I use a 25-40 watt basking bulb on the warm side during the day and a 40 watt red bulb at night...I sometimes use a undertank heat pad as well. You may want to take a look at our http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8170-danger-zone.html thread to read about dangerous things to watch for in enclosures.

3621

[GarterGuy17]

Thanks for the picture. Your tank looks amazing by the way, Ill be sure to look into the furniture more now didn't think it was so important. How easy to clean is your tank though ?

[EasternGirl]

Thanks. I don't think it's difficult. I think I clean mine more than a lot of other people because I'm kind of OCD about it...a lot of people spot clean...which means that you can just scoop poop and urates (urine) out of the substrate as you see it and then only clean the whole tank every so often. I clean mine every couple of weeks completely. A lot of people use vinegar to clean because it's safe...I use a bleach solution, which is safe as long as you are very careful with it. I remove everything including the substrate...throw away the substrate and put the plants in the sink to soak in warm soapy water. Then, I spray a solution of one part bleach, 3 parts water in the tank and wipe it out. Then I make sure to wipe it out with plain water, and then I make sure to let it air out for about an hour before putting the stuff back in. Rinse soap off of plants and logs...you can put them back in damp. Put new substrate in. But you can go a while spot cleaning substrate before you have to clean the entire tank. Just make sure to clean the water dishes frequently because they will get slimy. Plants and logs are important because garters like to climb and hide. A hide on the cold side and one on the warm side are very important so that the garter can hide to feel secure. The kind of substrate you use is important because certain materials are toxic to garters. The water dish is important, not just for drinking..but for soaking and swimming too. But you have to be careful with babies...make sure it is a dish they can easily get out of. Make sure you buy any wood items from a pet store or ask a member how to bake the wood to treat for possible mites...you don't want to just pick up wood from outside because it might have mites that can then transfer to your snake.

[GarterGuy17]

Sounds like a plan then , The substrate I was planning to use for a while was paper towels since its the cheapest and easiest to use. The only thing I still don't have a lot of knowledge about is the shedding. I know I need like a basking rock for that just kinda confused about that whole topic.

[EasternGirl]

Paper towels are okay...I am personally a fan of something they can burrow in. Many people use aspen bedding...it is pretty cheap and you can get that at most pet stores. Just be careful not to feed the snake in the aspen. You will want to have a separate tank for feeding if you use aspen..or you will want to feed with tongs or hemostats. If you use a feed tank...you can just use paper towels in a small 5 gallon tank for a feed tank. For shedding...you don't necessarily need a basking rock...if you are talking about what I think you are talking about...a rock or a log placed under the heat lamp for the snake to bask...that is just because garters enjoy basking in the sun. I use a 25 watt basking bulb..or you can just use a regular 40 watt light bulb in a dome light fixture. Then at night, I use a 40 watt red bulb for heat. Some people use under tank heat mats...if you are interested in using those...I can give you a link for info on using those. Make sure your water dish is on the cool side of the tank...the side without the light. When the snake is about to shed...it will become dull in color and it's eyes will become cloudy...this is a sign that it is time to increase the humidity in your tank. To do this, you can buy a spray bottle and mist the plants in the tank with water a couple of times a day. On the average the temperature in your tank should stay around 75-85 during the day on the warm side and around 70-75 on the cool side...and at night it should not drop below 65. I keep mine around 73 at night. You can get thermometers at pet stores that you can put inside the tank to watch your temps. The humidity should stay around 40-50%....although many people will tell you higher and many people will tell you they can't get it that high. My humidity in my tanks stays around 30-40%...and I try to get it to 50 or 60% around shed time. I increase it by misting a lot and covering 1/2 to 3/4 of the tank lid with a towel. A good shed is indicated by the snake getting the entire shed off in one piece. You can get a hygrometer at pet stores that you can put in the tank to monitor humidity.

You also want to make sure you get a secure tank lid that the snake cannot escape from. You can get locking tank lids and lids that slide on...those are the best.

Don't let anyone at a pet store tell you that garters eat crickets. Garters eat worms, fish, and frozen/thawed pinkies. We have a list on here of safe fish that you can feed them.

[Light of Dae]

Good advice Marnie!

I use aspen shavings for my one guy, and dry coco husk for my girl. The coco husk is nice looking and great to shed on because its rough enough, but she doesn't borrow in it. Mine you she didn't borrow when I had her on aspen either... She loves to climb. Dollar Stores are my first option when buying plants, Cheap and they look good. My Checkered Garter George LOVES to borrow, I got his tank with about 2inches of aspen shavings lol

This is what I do now to feed 'in tank' I make sure its up above the substrate or put paper towel down. I make a mix of chopped worms and chopped pinkies or salmon chunks. small enough to be a quick swallow, bite size.
3626

This is my one tank for my little Radix, Babs. Her two favorite spots are in the top right corner in the vines and basking on the fake rock I made. :)
3627

This is a simple set up I have for my Checkered, George. There is a fake plant in the left corner that provides good cover as well. His tank isn't don't yet... I'm going out today to get something for him to climb on.
3628
Oh and the piece of wood in there is a chunk of drift wood that I treated. Baked in the oven, then put a coat of sealer on it... lol same sealer I used on my fake rock :)

[GarterGuy17]

Wow , light of dae you have a stunning tank simply amazing. That's kinda what I was going for visually , bark was my first choice but the fact of having to buy more and more each time was the deal. I looked up the coco bark its pretty cheap and it looks very much like what I wanted I will be sure to look into that. The furniture I will be buying at the pet store like the vines and things like that but if I find some flowers at the dollar store I will be sure to pick those up ; they give the tank some vibrancy its very beautiful.

On the heating note I will most definitely use the two bulbs the 25 watt basking and the red 40 watt at night. sounds very promising seeing your snakes. By getting these lamps it means I have no need for a under tank heater , am I right ?

[Light of Dae]

:) Thank you.

For my tanks I'm just using normal bulbs 100w but I got a very cold house. All my vines n plants I buy at the dollar store, it saves you a lot of money, instead of 6 buck for 1 little plant you can get 6 big different plants / flowers / vines of your choice for the same 6 bucks :) pretty much the same quality too. Reptile bark is better in the fact that you can feed on it without the worry of it being ingested and killing your snake, where as coco husk can be ingested easily if not very careful and can and will kill your snake. But it really just depends on personal preference and availability. Coco husk like I got I find hard to spot clean cause its just so hard to see (Mind you she favors pooping on the fake rock so it seems lol) reptile bark I hear is very easy to spot clean.

As far as temps go, I don't have heat mats just lamps. Now I shut the lights off at night of course and allow my tanks to get down to house temps which go down to 17c or about 60f. I have been doing this with my Radix since I've had her. In Alberta Canada that is about what the temperature drops to on a summer night so I figure its ok. During the day their tanks get to about 65f - 70f (cool side - Warm side) Now this is just me, most other keepers probably do it a wee different.

[GarterGuy17]

Okay so I will be going with the lamps instead and buying my furniture in the dollar store.The log and rocks on the other hand I will probably buy in the pet store its just easier then treating for mites all together. On that note about the bark is it true they you need to replace it with new bark only once a year ? but clean it about every 2 -3 months , because if that's the case I will not mind get reptile bark at all.

[tress29]

One snake won't get it too messy! You will need to spot clean and add more bark/shavings as needed. Deep clean a few times a year. It's still cheaper (and less mess) than kitty litter!

[GarterGuy17]

Thanks Theresa I will be sure to do that.

[EasternGirl]

One thing to remember is that a snake can actually get an obstruction from ingesting any kind of substrate and an obstruction can kill a snake. A snake can ingest reptibark....there is no ultimately safe substrate, as we have had a discussion about this. In fact my snake ingested a piece of reptibark just last week. She seems to be fine so far...but I am still watching her. The best thing to do is to take the snake out of the tank and to feed in a separate tank on paper towels...that is your safest bet for avoiding ingestion of substrate and obstructions while feeding. Another safer option is to feed with tongs or hemostats...but you have to make sure the snake doesn't drag the food into the substrate...as that is what happened with my snake. What Dae said about paper towels is a good idea...when I feed in the tank...I always put a paper towel under the food dish...but I never feed in the tank on reptibark....only on carefresh...the wood worries me too much. I do however feed on a dish on top of a paper towel when I am using carefresh. On aspen, I would recommend using a separate feed tank.

As far as bulbs versus UTH (heat mats)...it is really a matter of preference...although I found this morning it was very cold in my house and I turned the mat on in addition to the heat bulb. Using mats can be tricky though, so make sure that you talk to us and know what you are doing if you decide to do that. Here are some picks of my snakes...

My easterns:

Cee Cee: 3629 Cee Cee and Seeley: 3630 and Hermes: 3631my albino
checkered.

[GarterGuy17]

Wow your snake's are beautiful. The picture with Cee Cee and seely is just wow , I love it ! So which brand is best ( Reptile bark wise ) ? The lamps I'm going to purchase off of petco so that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe ill get both an under tank pad. Even though the house stays warm most of the time it might be necessary on some days.

[infernalis]

Why give petco your money?

I get "sunbeam" reflector bulbs at Dollar Tree for a buck all the time.

[GarterGuy17]

Well I thought of petco because I have to buy the actual lamp not only the bulbs , but now that you tell me this I will but the bulbs in the dollar store. Thanks for the advice

[infernalis]

Reflector hoods are $ 8 at wal mart, home depot or Lowes.

Shop around, Petco is a rip off.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks...Cee Cee and Seeley are always posing like that...I swear they do it on purpose for the camera! An option for your lamp fixture might be a terrarium hood...Zoo Med makes one..the Naturalistic Terrarium Hood...that has two sockets so that you can put a daytime bulb and a nighttime bulb in it Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium Hood at PETCO (http://www.petco.com/product/109910/Zoo-Med-Naturalistic-Terrarium-Hood.aspx) I am not sure about different brands for reptibark...I just bought what they had at my pet store. I didn't like it though so I switched back to carefresh...my snakes like it better for burrowing, and I feel it's safer. With under heat mats you have to make sure the tank is propped up on the bottom so that the heat can escape from underneath, and you have to make sure you have plenty of substrate over the mat...but not too much. About 2 inches is good. You may want to wait until the snake is a little bigger if you are getting a baby...I worry about snakes burrowing down and getting burned on the hot glass with heat mats...but that is my opinion...others use them and do not agree. I don't use one with my baby albino...I worry too much about him burrowing and getting burned.

[GarterGuy17]

Oh wow thanks for the tip . :)

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...Wayne is right...I buy the sunbeam bulbs at the dollar store too...except I do buy the red night bulbs at the pet store. And I do like the double socket terrarium hood....it is more expensive though...so you may want to go with what Wayne said and get the more inexpensive reflector hoods.

[GarterGuy17]

I'm actually looking for one now , but how do you do it ? meaning do you change the bulb every morning and every night ? or what.

[infernalis]

I'm actually looking for one now , but how do you do it ? meaning do you change the bulb every morning and every night ? or what.

Garter snakes don't need a bulb at night... I keep about 70 in my house, and have worked with hundreds of babies, never once did I heat the cages at night.

They are North American colubrids, they spend very chilly evenings outside in nature, have been forever.

Unless you allow your house to fall below freezing inside at night, it is completely unnecessary to run a heat lamp at night.

Please don't confuse garters with tropical snakes or boids.

$7 at wal mart...

http://homeharvest.com/homeharvest2000pics/SSClampLight350.jpg

[GarterGuy17]

Oh thanks for the heads up I would have been buying unnecessary bulbs , that Is the hood i'm going to get then now I just have to go out and buy all this stuff. Again thanks for all the tips :D

[chris-uk]

....
With under heat mats you have to make sure the tank is propped up on the bottom so that the heat can escape from underneath, and you have to make sure you have plenty of substrate over the mat...but not too much. About 2 inches is good. You may want to wait until the snake is a little bigger if you are getting a baby...I worry about snakes burrowing down and getting burned on the hot glass with heat mats...but that is my opinion...others use them and do not agree. I don't use one with my baby albino...I worry too much about him burrowing and getting burned.

The depth of substrate over a heatmat should be minimal shouldn't it? I vary substrate depth across the width of the viv, around 1cm over any mats, and deeper for burrowing on the cold side.

My mats don't get hot enough under the substrate to cause burns - what sort of temps do people have their mats at to worry about burns? I've monitored both surface of the substrate and the glass underneath and the glass doesn't get too hot when the substrate is at 28C.
With an albino I'd be more concerned about UV from a lamp than burns from a heat mat.

[GarterGuy17]

Well in my case I still feel a lamp would be much better then a heat pad because of the fact that hardly any sunlight come's through my window and I don't want to have to turn the rooms light on when ever I wanna see the snake and as I said before I read that some garters are more active with a light source. I'm not sure about your snakes but would you disagree with this theory ?

[chris-uk]

I use heatmats and LED lighting in my vivs. Garters are diurnal so more active in the day, are in our livingroom and hallway so they get more than enough light, they are more active in the late afternoon and evening so I don't think light is the only factor, they come out more when we are around.
If your room doesn't have a lot of natural light I'd be using a lamp rather than mats.

[GarterGuy17]

Just as I thought thanks for the heads up chris.

[infernalis]

I prefer lamps... Never used a heat pad.

[GarterGuy17]

Do you have a reason or is it just a personal preference ?

[RedSidedSPR]

I prefer lamps too.

Petco is a scam. They charge $5 for a tiny bottle of "hermit crab water" Ingredients: Distilled water.

Here's my tank for my babies (upgrading soon)

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/940/p9160347.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3488/p9160350.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6268/p9160349.jpg

They love the shelf.
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2051/p9170361.jpg

[GarterGuy17]

Wow I have to say that platform is just I don't know i'm speechless I have to make one for my tank I just have to I would love to see my snake like that once I get it. Just an all around amazing tank 10 out of 10 :D people might be starting to think i'm easily impressed :X

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks The platform was easy to build. PM me sometime and I'll tell ya how I did it.:)

The water bowl is now bigger, and there's a few changes but that's the cage.

[GarterGuy17]

I'll be sure to do that as soon as I purchase my tank :)

[EasternGirl]

I'm just paranoid about heat mat burns...I guess an adult snake would have to be pretty stupid to not move off hot glass and get burned...Steve and I have had this conversation at length...but I just worry about a baby burrowing and not knowing to get off of the hot glass...maybe you are right Chris, maybe it doesn't even get hot enough to burn a snake and maybe I'm just paranoid. But I know Steve uses ceramic tiles to ensure protecting from the heated glass. Anyway...with what Wayne said...many people do not use night bulbs...and he is right, garters are used to pretty cold temps outside. I prefer to use them. It is really a matter of preference. Some people don't use night heat and some people believe you should. I use them when it is very cold in the winter but not when it is not really cold outside and the house is staying relatively warm. If the house is staying above 65 at night, I don't use them.

Jesse...what size tank is that? That platform is awesome! I would love to build one for my tanks but I don't know if there would be enough room. That tank is sweet...

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a monsoon like Liverpool
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4y1dPtN-EVPENg1BYYsLqoHg5jOJOmruRHFC-G6D7nGLBSxPphAhttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaz93quM1Ay0V0d7uMRqvUm3CpZZtMC wWq2SdiSWB_eWH5brgjzg

Amazing scouse fact charlie Chaplin attended school in liverpool ;)

[GarterGuy17]

Thanks for the welcome :)

[infernalis]

Do you have a reason or is it just a personal preference ?

It's a personal preference, But I can't stress enough, it's a lot easier to cook a garter snake than it is to freeze them.

In the wild, they tend to spend the hottest part of the day hiding in the shade. They bask in the morning to warm up, they feed and then seek shelter from the sun.

I encounter far more garters out and about on cloudy, wet days or under the canopy of forest near wetlands.

When it's really warm out, they are under boards, rocks and logs.

[GarterGuy17]

Cook a garter hahah , But I understand now. The lamp is my way to go then since there's not much natural light in my room. By the way is it hard to get a snake on a fish fillet diet with occasional pinky's. I want to know whats the best for its health as far as size.

[RedSidedSPR]

Jesse...what size tank is that? That platform is awesome! I would love to build one for my tanks but I don't know if there would be enough room. That tank is sweet...

Thanks, it's a 10 gallon, soon to be upgraded to a 20

[EasternGirl]

It sounds like a joke but people have actually accidently fried their snakes misusing lamps and heat mats and the like. Wayne is right...it is easier to burn a snake than to freeze one. It takes pretty low temps to freeze a snake. No, it isn't difficult to get a snake on a fish/pinky diet....you want to aim for a varied diet...that is best for health. A diet that is a variety of worms, fish, and pinkies is good. If you get your snake from a breeder, the breeder will tell you what they have been feeding the snake, then you can introduce the snake to new food by scenting and mixing. You can scent the new food by rubbing whatever the snake was eating before onto the food...or mix the old food and new food together.


Jesse...that tank looks huge...is it extra tall or something? PM me and tell me how to build that platform if you don't mind. Thanks.

[GarterGuy17]

Oh I know it was a serious matter just sounds a bit odd. So i guess that's what i'm going to do because I really don't think I can find night crawlers where i'm at so I think fish fillet and the pinky's are my way to go I have to look into the worms , but I know for a fact that I don't now want to feed live fish. I feel as if the whole parasite thing is to risky.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...it's hard to find safe live fish and some snakes won't eat them. My first snake had no idea what to do with them when I was first learning what to feed garters. Your best bets for fillet are Alaskan salmon, steel-head trout, and tilapia...the latter being the cheapest. You want to make sure it is from the U.S. and wild caught...not farm grown or from out of the U.S. from what I have been told...to ensure it is safe. I just go to the seafood counter at my supermarket and buy it...I get a small piece and feed a small dish of cut-up thawed pieces...but still raw...then I freeze the rest. A good way to thaw is to cut up small pieces while it's frozen and put it in a zip lock baggy and run it under warm water. Now you will want to feed pinkies too because just feeding fish will not give a well-rounded diet. There is a vitamin supplement you can buy...but you should try to feed pinkies too. You can buy frozen pinkies at pet stores and you can cut them up while they are frozen for baby snakes. It isn't as gross as it sounds. Then you can thaw them the same way you thaw the fish...you can mix the fish and the pinkies if you want. When you get your snake and you know how old it is you will know how often to feed...the breeder will tell you how often the snake is eating. Here is a pic...not a great one...of my whole set-up for my snakes:

3632 I just bought wrought iron shelves for all my tanks. I need to get a better pic now that I got a new camera for Christmas!

[GarterGuy17]

The thing is the fish I can get easy and free my family has their own fish market about 1/4 mile away from where I live so its easy to get fish and for pinky's I can go to my petco. Just are the worms necessary for the diet or not ? because I am not available to them at all.

[EasternGirl]

Well that's awesome if your family has a fish market! Necessary? No...I don't think they are necessary. Not all people can get worms all the time. Where are you in New York? There are no marine or bait stores near you? Because I get mine at a bait store. But if you can't get them the snake is not going to die or anything. The important thing is that the snake gets nutrients like calcium and vitamin D...which they can get from the bones in the pinkies. Some people like to supplement with a supplement like http://www.amazon.com/Rep-Cal-Calcium-Vitamin-Ultrafine-Powder/dp/B00076HTQA but I don't think it's necessary if the snake is eating pinkies on a regular basis. My snakes go through weird phases in which they only like to eat fish...and then I sprinkle some of the supplement on the fish every 3-4 feedings. Certain types of garters...like my two easterns...eat worms primarily in the wild...so when I first found my two easterns...both were found in the wild...they would only eat worms until I gradually introduced them to pinkies and fish. The more rounded the diet the better...but I think you will be fine with pinkies and fish.

If anyone knows of anything I am telling our new friend here that is incorrect, please jump in and correct me!

[tress29]

I really don't think I can find night crawlers where i'm atCanadian night crawlers, @$3 for 20 at my local Walmart, back by fishing poles...

[GarterGuy17]

That's the thing I live in the city we don't have a Walmart here , I know shocking. I'm going to have to get the supplement than. I use it once every 3-4 times they eat ?

[EasternGirl]

Theresa...did you check with other members and make sure those nightcrawlers are safe? I know someone was talking about Walmart and nightcrawlers...there are safe kinds and then sometimes they mark some kinds of worms as nightcrawlers that are not or something like that.

John...you don't need supplements if you aren't feeding worms...I think you only need it if you aren't feeding pinkies...but supplements won't hurt as far as I know. Every 3-4 feeding lightly dust the food with the powder. The snake may notice and may not want the food...you may have to get creative. Depends on the snake...my girl Cee Cee is a pig...you could put poo on her food and she would still eat it. But Seeley will smell the supplement and refuse the food. I think some people put a little in water but I am not sure. Start a thread asking specifically about supplements. Ask in the thread if you need the supplement if you are feeding pinkies and fish. Ask how to use the supplement...other members can help more with that.

[GarterGuy17]

Thanks I will do that right now .

[infernalis]

If the container says "Night crawlers" you are OK.