Substrate

[Jack Wheeler]

What substrates do you guys use for your garters? Im currently using newspaper but want something a bit better and different! Different being the main part of that :) Thanks for any help :)

[RedSidedSPR]

I use reptibark cuz it looks cool, natural and doesn't get stuck to food (although it's a hell of a lot worse if it DOES get swallowed lol).

Aspen in my adults tank, although i hate it more each day. But it's great if you feed out of cage.

[EasternGirl]

I swear by Carefresh. It doesn't look as natural...but it's very safe...not much of a chance of the snake ingesting it with food, and if they did, I doubt it would cause much of a problem. It's recycled paper but it's very soft and the snakes love burrowing and making tunnels in it. You can also get it in different colors. They sell it in pet stores in animal bedding. Now I recently also discovered Boxo...but I haven't seen it in all of the pet stores. My snakes love burrowing in it. You just have to make sure that you get original Boxo and not the new natural Boxo...the original is recycled newspaper...the new stuff is some flimsy paper crap that looks like stuff you should throw at people at weddings and the snakes can't burrow in it at all.

[chris-uk]

All ours are on aspen. It's widely available and does a good job, and they like burrowing in it. I may try bark at some point.

[Jack Wheeler]

Care fresh sounds good. just want something quite different which does the job. Doesnt have to look natrual either :)

[EasternGirl]

It isn't necessarily cheap...but it lasts...I get the medium size bag for $12.99 to $15.99 depending on the store and the color and that will fill about four tanks...plus you can spot clean the poop and urates for a while.

[guidofatherof5]

Compressed aspen pellets.
Gentle Touch Products - Products: Cat Box Filler, Pet Bedding, & Horse Bedding (http://www.gentletouchproducts.com/products.html)

[kibakiba]

I also use carefresh. I get 27 compressed liters for about 20 dollars, usd. It lasts me months, but I also spot clean a lot.

[EasternGirl]

I do believe that you originally told me about carefresh when I first came on the forum, Chantel. I love it and so do my snakes.

[kibakiba]

I tell people about it like a JW goes to peoples houses!Hah. I might as well go to peoples couses telling them about carefresh.

[infernalis]

I use aspen, repti brk, eco earth.. whatever is on sale.

[EasternGirl]

Oh I have definitely become that way about it...I sound like a carefresh commercial...maybe we should call the company and tell them that we will be their spokeswomen!

[Jeff B]

I used to use carefresh and I really liked it for the most part but it is very expensive and creates a ton of lint dust over time. I now use a product that is a compressed pellet that is comprised of hardwood and non-aromatic softwood (no pine, cedar, ect.) by-products of mills (aka saw dust, lol). It soaks up waste and water better and doesn't mold nearly as fast. A 40lb bag is only $5.00 at my local farm store called Thiesons. It says right on the bag that is is for small pets and REPTILES. I have been using it for about a year now and love the stuff. Plus the pellets are big enough and heavy enough and don't stick to food, so they don't get swallowed like little pieces of carefresh, which is of special concern for babies. I had lost a few babies occationally in the past to swallowing carefresh, but this year didn't have any troubles. It's called Marth Animal and Reptile Bedding. Marth is the manufacturer and they have a website.

[EasternGirl]

Can you give us the link to the website Jeff? Sounds like pretty good stuff...I wouldn't mind trying it.

[Jeff B]

Can you give us the link to the website Jeff? Sounds like pretty good stuff...I wouldn't mind trying it.

Ahhhh...ever heard of that new invention called Google? lol, sorry just teasing, allow me to spoon-feed you the link: Marth Wood Shavings - Wood Pellet Fuel, Wood Shavings, Animal Bedding, Wood Flour, Biomass Fuel, BBQ Pellets (http://www.marthwood.com/animal_bedding.html)

[EasternGirl]

I actually did google it after I asked :). But I wasn't able to find a place that sells it online. You use the pellets right? Because they listed three different types. They did have one place that I could call. I don't know if my snakes would like the pellets because they like bedding that they can burrow in and make tunnels...I was looking at the pick bedding...was wondering if it would be safe to use as opposed to the pellets.

[Jeff B]

I wouldn't recomend anything other than the pellets, because if snakes swallow anything sharp that can cause problems.

[Jack Wheeler]

All sounds good :) i just need to find somewhere that sells something appropriate

[Jack Wheeler]

Is there any other type of pellet substrate i could use which is avaliable in the UK

[chris-uk]

Carefresh is available over here, aspen, coconut husk, and reptile bark is as well. I think anything else you're looking at buying online unless you're lucky and have a good shop nearby. We just don't have a lot of woodmills in the UK with waste products to turn into profits.
The Americans are lucky that they can walk into Walmart and buy a lot of what they need for snakes, Sainsbury and Tesco just don't do that line of red wrigglers do they?

[Jack Wheeler]

hahaa yeah i know all of the basic substrates used pretty much every substrate except the different ones.. pellets etc...

[BUSHSNAKE]

i like cypress mulch mixed with spagnum moss, its been working awesome, its great for controling the humidity which should be about 75% in my opinion

[EasternGirl]

But don't you have to worry about snakes getting skin rot if it is too moist?

[BUSHSNAKE]

if you put moist spagnum moss in a bowl and put it in your enclosure it will raise the humidity as it dries out, and your animal isnt sitting on wet substrate. Im basically doing the same thing in my own way. i spray a section of the substrate or a bunch up ball of moss just enough so it could be dried out the next day. the humidity stays up and the snakes are not on wet substrate, the snakes' skin stays healthy and everyones happy!

[EasternGirl]

Thanks Joe...I'm going to try that to get my humidity up...been concerned about the humidity level in my enclosures.

[Jeff B]

I agree Joe, humidity should be higher than most have, especially if carefreh or any other bone dry substrate is used with screen lid and dry heated home in the winter. I keep the room humidity right around 75% in my snake room. I have a 125 gallon fish tank in the snake room that adds humidity, but I still run a humidifier in Feb. sometimes and in the summer I will run a dehumidifier in the basement if it gets a little too high. I'm sure you get nice sheds with that cypress/spagnum substrate, as do I by maintaining the room humidity around 75%.

[infernalis]

I agree Joe, humidity should be higher than most have, especially if carefreh or any other bone dry substrate is used with screen lid and dry heated home in the winter. I keep the room humidity right around 75% in my snake room. I have a 125 gallon fish tank in the snake room that adds humidity, but I still run a humidifier in Feb. sometimes and in the summer I will run a dehumidifier in the basement if it gets a little too high. I'm sure you get nice sheds with that cypress/spagnum substrate, as do I by maintaining the room humidity around 75%.

This is what I do (somewhat) we have baseboard radiant heat, this does not suck away humidity like forced air heat does, The supplimental space heater always has a pot of water on top to keep humidity up.

Great reply by the way.

[Jeff B]

That is a great idea Wayne. I am actually in the process of installing/wiring a baseboard heater in my snake room (actually bought all the stuff and started it last winter but then school got in the way) anyway I hope to finishing installing in the next couple weeks. I was going to put a fan near it to circulate the heat a bit and putting a pot of water on it will keep the fan from drying things out. The thermostate will be a digital room thermo mounted in the wall about 6 ft away. I usually run a fan in there in the summer anyway so it doesn't get stuffy.

[infernalis]

The house had a boiler system in it when I moved in. I love it..

Not as fast to warm up as forced air is, but I have never been zapped by a doorknob or lightswitch either.

[ConcinusMan]

But don't you have to worry about snakes getting skin rot if it is too moist?

The key here is to dampen, not soak. And also, like Joe was saying, it should dry out completely in a day or two. Problems arise when the substrate remains damp for a long time, and/or the entire bottom is constantly damp, allowing mold and bacteria to multiply, or if the snake is forced to sit on damp substrate all the time. The method he described is essential for keeping newborn baby northwesterns. I just don't have luck with them at all when conditions are too dry/low humidity.

[EasternGirl]

I am trying what Joe suggested with bowls of sphagnum moss in the enclosures...but I haven't seen an increase in humidity yet...strange.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Screen top? to much ventilation, you can cover some of it with plastic wrap

[EasternGirl]

But how do I make sure not to block off too much ventilation? How much should I cover up...about half of the tank lid would you say? I did try blocking off some of one of the tank lids with a book last night just to see what would happen and noticed the humidity go up on the hygrometer a bit. Sorry if I sound like a dumb blonde...I just don't have any experience with this!

[infernalis]

You can cover 3/4 of the screen top and be fine.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks Wayne.

[ConcinusMan]

Keep in mind that the basking area or undertank heater causes air to rise. If the cool end isn't covered, that rising air will cause (possibly dry) air to be sucked in through the cool end, displacing the humidity. If your hygrometer is directly in the path of the incoming dry air... well, you get the idea.

[EasternGirl]

I am covering the cool end. I bought some ecoearth and some reptibark to try today. I figured I'd put the ecoearth on the bottom and put a little reptibark on top. I'm going to try it in Cee Cee and Seeley's tanks first...I think I will stick with the carefresh in the baby's tank for now. If I put a paper towel under their food dish and watch them carefully, would it be okay to let them eat in their enclosures with the ecoearth and reptibark? If not I will move them...but they eat better if I don't move them out of their enclosures.

[ConcinusMan]

but they eat better if I don't move them out of their enclosures.

Of course they do, but why bother with a dish and/or paper towel? It's too difficult to keep them from dragging it backwards through the substrate, or worse, injuring themselves when they are fighting over the same piece of food? I make them reach for it, and keep it so small that they have it swallowed before they even get their heads back down to the substrate. At any given moment I only have ONE snake swallowing food at a time, and so, only one snake to keep an eye on. This method also creates some nice direct interaction time, which builds trust.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkFoxDX40_Q

[EasternGirl]

I wish I could get my snakes to eat like that Richard...but my skiddish snakes will not take food from me. Well...Cee Cee will sometimes...but she has been such a pig snake lately (I'm thinking she is gravid) that I am risking fingers if I try to put my hands anywhere inside the tank while she is eating. In fact, I quickly retreat after putting her dish down! She's such a pig right now...she's like "I'll take those fingers too...thank you!". Seeley will not take food from me...he will only eat from a dish and the baby albino will only eat under his little hide at this point. And I don't feed them together...not after an incident with piggers Cee Cee going after Seeley's food.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, it doesn't go like it did in the video just by magic. And of course, they were skiddish and it was difficult at first. But they learn to trust, and adapt, and come to learn that when the hand comes in with the tongs, it's feeding time. They don't know that at first. Takes time and a little patience to teach them that.;)

Once they learn it, even the most skiddish snakes will come rushing out toward your hand/tongs when they're hungry, instead of shying away. I can't even keep them off my hands and out of the way long enough to change their water or spot clean. They're all over me!