Need a bit of advice on substrate for new tank

[angrygamer]

Hi all,

I have few questions perhaps you can help me answer. I am a new keeper of three months of a Garter (I am still unsure of a lot of things, one of which is what kind of Garter, another is the sex-I think it's a female). I am changing tanks from a 10 gallon to a 30 gallon. I just got the tank this morning, and it seems really tall and thin (see pics). It's not much wider than the ten gallon. I don't know if this is common for fish tanks, but it has challenged me to think vertically and I was looking for ideas that would give her(?) as much room as possible to slither around. The previous owner used it as a fish tank an gave me all the equipment with it.

http://i.imgur.com/k6qHK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hnrHj.jpg

The last owner left a few things, some plastic plants, a castle for her to hide in (lower left) and some sort of fake coral that really won't serve a purpose:

http://i.imgur.com/Kqdll.jpg

For some reason, the proportions from my webcam make these objects appear a bit smaller than they really are.

I have it really simply set up in the current tank. I have a paper towel cardboard (which she loves!) a rock to hide in and a piece of wood leaning to the side of the tank. That stuff I will put in the 30 gal. I know it's not much so far, but I have been waiting to do this changeover for a while and I didn't want to overdo it with the ten gallon as it is-she seems cooped up in there and when I take her out and put her back in, she wants to get back out. She's OK after she settles down a bit, but it's really the only time since have owned her that she seems irritated.

For ground cover I use a mix of straw, wood chips (not sawdust, mind you!) and leaves:

http://i.imgur.com/b1GCZ.jpg

So I could surely use some advice, I want to do this right. One thing I am very cautious about is trying not to add too much-as I have discovered, adding too much can be just bad as not having enough-the poor snake can't slither!

In the mean time, I am going clean the tank down now-it's got some lime deposits that I am going to clean up.

I look forward to your responses!

[EasternGirl]

Okay...the tank will be okay in terms of space...it is a bit tall...usually most people use tanks that are long...in measurement they are called 20 gallon long, thirty gallon long, etc...which makes them longer in length...but the snake should have plenty of room in the tank you have there. I'm not sure about the plants and stuff...my concern would be the fact that they were in a fish tank before...I don't know a lot about it but I don't know if bacteria or diseases could be transferred...your best bet is to get some fake plants from a dollar store...if you are looking to save money and you don't want to buy stuff at a pet store. The cardboard boxes and stuff that you already have are fine...if that is what the snake likes, go with it. You need to be careful with your bedding...you don't want anything the snake can ingest...best to get something made for snakes like aspen or carefresh. Also...I don't know enough about lime deposits to know if that would be any risk to the snake...but you said you are cleaning it up...just be very careful with what you are using to clean the tank...make sure you get any traces of cleaner out of the tank and air it out properly before putting the snake into it. If any other more experienced members can comment on my advice..please do...I'm fairly knew to all of this myself! Do you know about hides and lighting and all of that?

[chris-uk]

Cleaning - use vinegar in water to clean the tank, any residues will be better than chemical cleaners.

Space - What Marnie has said about using long, low tanks is sound advice. Garters climb, but they aren't climbers, so more ground area is better.

Decoration - If they've been in a fish tank clean everything in boiling water, that depends what they are made from, but most aquarium ornaments will be made from stuff that can take boiling water. Cardboard tubes are great for them to hide in, bark hides and coconut halves are good too.

Substrate - Other than having substrate that can't be ingested its important thing is to use stuff which won't bring parasites and bacteria into the tank, so it depends where you get the leaves, straw and sawdust from.

Type of snake - Post up some photos of the snake and you'll have an answer to that very quickly.

[ConcinusMan]

Aspen shavings are great and very cheap at walmart. Look into it if you have a walmart nearby.

[angrygamer]

Okay...the tank will be okay in terms of space...it is a bit tall...usually most people use tanks that are long...in measurement they are called 20 gallon long, thirty gallon long, etc...which makes them longer in length...but the snake should have plenty of room in the tank you have there. I'm not sure about the plants and stuff...my concern would be the fact that they were in a fish tank before...I don't know a lot about it but I don't know if bacteria or diseases could be transferred...your best bet is to get some fake plants from a dollar store...if you are looking to save money and you don't want to buy stuff at a pet store. The cardboard boxes and stuff that you already have are fine...if that is what the snake likes, go with it. You need to be careful with your bedding...you don't want anything the snake can ingest...best to get something made for snakes like aspen or carefresh. Also...I don't know enough about lime deposits to know if that would be any risk to the snake...but you said you are cleaning it up...just be very careful with what you are using to clean the tank...make sure you get any traces of cleaner out of the tank and air it out properly before putting the snake into it. If any other more experienced members can comment on my advice..please do...I'm fairly knew to all of this myself! Do you know about hides and lighting and all of that?

Thanks. I wasn't sure about the tank-I have had aquarium fish before, but not dealing with tanks this size. I had seen a few on Craigslist, but this one didn't have a picture with it. I thought it looked a bit odd, but at the time I figured that is the standard and that's what everyone used, it made sense to me because there's is a wider viewing angle for fish.

I'll get creative with it and at worst, if I don't feel like she's comfortable with it I'll sell it and get a longer one.

As far as the plants and the castle go, I will probably just get more stuff-I plan on adding a few more things anyway, as I am trying to get the most out of this tank. As far as the bedding goes, from what I have read up on, dirt, soil and sand aren't really safe, but I thought the bedding I picked was good. I was thinking of the safest natural environment I could with some variety thrown in.

I have read up on hides and warmers and lighting, yes I am getting a couple of new heat lamps with this tank.

As far as the lime deposits go, they have to go. They obstruct the view. I don't think it is harmful from what I've read, they are just a pain to get off. A scraper and vinegar is what it takes-but I have a problem with it (read below).



Cleaning - use vinegar in water to clean the tank, any residues will be better than chemical cleaners.

Space - What Marnie has said about using long, low tanks is sound advice. Garters climb, but they aren't climbers, so more ground area is better.

Decoration - If they've been in a fish tank clean everything in boiling water, that depends what they are made from, but most aquarium ornaments will be made from stuff that can take boiling water. Cardboard tubes are great for them to hide in, bark hides and coconut halves are good too.

Substrate - Other than having substrate that can't be ingested its important thing is to use stuff which won't bring parasites and bacteria into the tank, so it depends where you get the leaves, straw and sawdust from.

Type of snake - Post up some photos of the snake and you'll have an answer to that very quickly.

Yeah, I am using vinegar and and a scraper, the problem is, the store in my area only sells a 5% concentration and I need a higher one. I just have to keep soaking and scrubbing.

As far as the tank itself goes, I was thinking of something vaguely similar to this:
3440

except have it join where two low inclines meet. It's hard to explain but I will keep looking for a picture that resembles what I'm talking about more closely.

As far as the straw and the leaves go, it was from my parents land in the country so it is safe from any sort of industrial contamination, and those are wood chips, not sawdust! I read something where the author was very explicit not to use sawdust.

Yes, I will definitely post some pics when I get the time, hopefully over the weekend, I wanted to tackle this first.



Aspen shavings are great and very cheap at walmart. Look into it if you have a walmart nearby.

OK, I'll do that, what department? Gardening?

[kibakiba]

No, pet supplies for the aspen. The gardening department aspen has bugs and possibly chemicals used in them, it could harm your snake.

[dieselbaby]

that looks alot like my tank what are its measurements. my biggest problem was locating a screen top for it, i had to custom make mine. I have two 4 month old checkered garter babies, and they love climbing in the plants and sleeping up on top of my um weed plant(fake of course), and i cut down an aspen tree(small diameter) and cut it to length and made a fat climbing log for them after boiling and baking the log to kill any nasties that might have been in it since i cut it down in the fall. get some rocks for them and it will also support your log if it doesnt wedge just right. the plants with suction cups that suction to the glass work the best in my tall tank for them to climb up. I have found the vertical space has worked out well for my snakes, they love it, and go up and down all the time. you can rough up the log a bit to add traction or wrap a fake vine around it as well, then they can hang on better. Like i said mine spend as much time in the canopy as they do down below on the ground.. really depends on the snake i think.. I use cocohusk mixed with reptibark for a nice natural look with plenty of green plants. you can check out my thread Lexi and Indy there are pics of my current tank set up on there near the end. Cant wait to see pics of your snake and his/her habitat when you are done. there is alot you can do with vertical space.

[angrygamer]

that looks alot like my tank what are its measurements. my biggest problem was locating a screen top for it, i had to custom make mine. I have two 4 month old checkered garter babies, and they love climbing in the plants and sleeping up on top of my um weed plant(fake of course), and i cut down an aspen tree(small diameter) and cut it to length and made a fat climbing log for them after boiling and baking the log to kill any nasties that might have been in it since i cut it down in the fall. get some rocks for them and it will also support your log if it doesnt wedge just right. the plants with suction cups that suction to the glass work the best in my tall tank for them to climb up. I have found the vertical space has worked out well for my snakes, they love it, and go up and down all the time. you can rough up the log a bit to add traction or wrap a fake vine around it as well, then they can hang on better. Like i said mine spend as much time in the canopy as they do down below on the ground.. really depends on the snake i think.. I use cocohusk mixed with reptibark for a nice natural look with plenty of green plants. you can check out my thread Lexi and Indy there are pics of my current tank set up on there near the end. Cant wait to see pics of your snake and his/her habitat when you are done. there is alot you can do with vertical space.



there is alot you can do with vertical space.

yeah, that's I was thinking too, that if constructed correctly there are a lot of possibilities but it has to be well thought-out. It forces you to use the space you have as wisely as possible. I will look at your thread for sure! Anyway, the dimensions are:

LxWxH
30"x12.5"x18"

This one did come with a lid, but it's a fish tank lid and not a screen. It does have a nice 24" light fixture though, but it's not snakeproof (yet).

[angrygamer]

No, pet supplies for the aspen. The gardening department aspen has bugs and possibly chemicals used in them, it could harm your snake.

OK, I never really thought of Wal-Mart as a really extensive pet supply store. I am probably going to go up there this weekend.

[infernalis]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8403-best-deal-aspen-ever.html

A thread I started.... enjoy.

[chris-uk]

As for the more concentrated vinegar solution, mix some up yourself. We have a bottle of cider vinegar that we just mix with water for cleaning vivs.

[angrygamer]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8403-best-deal-aspen-ever.html

A thread I started.... enjoy.

Yup, picked some yesterday. Thanks for the info!


As for the more concentrated vinegar solution, mix some up yourself. We have a bottle of cider vinegar that we just mix with water for cleaning vivs.

Yeah, I am trying to scrub it with 5% and scrape it off...at the rate I am going, this thing won't be set up until next week.


Anyway, here are a couple of pics-I thought I'd post them before I go to bed. I don't know in you need an underside picture of the cloaca to tell what sex it is, it's just that I have been really busy and you have to be completely still to take pictures with my webcam, something a little difficult to do with (her?)! I'll take more pics soon, I just wanted to give y'all something to look at :p!:


http://i.imgur.com/VF9fe.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/hIsRC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hIsRC.jpg

[infernalis]

Sorry I did not pick up on this sooner....

For grimy aquarium scale, I warm up a little vinigar (Full strength, no water) in a cup in the microwave. (Chemical reactions speed up with higher temps, and disolving calcium deposits with vinigar is a chemical reaction) and wipe the glass with that.

For really stubborn scale, Use one of these scrapers... Be really careful not to cut yourself!

http://lumberjocks.com/assets/pictures/reviews/119266.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Beautiful snake...yeah we will need a underside pic of the cloaca...hold the tail as straight as you can...I know it isn't easy:). As for type of garter...Wayne?

[kibakiba]

It looks like a wandering to me.

[EasternGirl]

I haven't gotten the subspecies identification down yet...but I'm getting pretty good at the sexing through pics.

[infernalis]

Wandering..

[angrygamer]

Here's a few more, I'll just have to keep trying, lol:



http://i.imgur.com/ZqEECl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fQwwql.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F6Q6Wl.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful female.

[ConcinusMan]

As for the more concentrated vinegar solution, mix some up yourself. We have a bottle of cider vinegar that we just mix with water for cleaning vivs.

If I get a used tank I always clean thoroughly with bleach solution, leave on for 15 minutes, and rinse several times. But after that, white distilled vinegar is what I use to keep the glass clean, since it's non-toxic and doesn't require rinsing. For hard water deposits, any acidic cleaner works well though. For organic deposits, use an alkaline cleaner. If you're having a hard time getting off hard water deposits (white stuff) with vinegar, you can use muriatic acid (sometimes sold as concrete cleaner)

If you don't know where a snake is from, (location would tell you if it's a wandering or an eastern) take a look at the spots. See how they overlap the dorsal stripe? That gives it away as a wandering. (T. elegans vagrans)

[EasternGirl]

For cleaning with vinegar..how exactly do you make the vinegar solution? What parts vinegar to water I mean? And you use this whenever you clean out the tanks?

[angrygamer]

Beautiful female.

Do you think it's a female? As I said before, from what I have read up on, everything points a female, the only thing doesn't is that she isn't very big (wide). She's 22 inches long. She doesn't have a ravenous appetite either. In fact, she like to play with her food before she eats it.

I have really enjoyed learning how to take care of her, she has been really forgiving while I have gone through this process. The only time she seems to get really skittish is when I have to put her back in the tank.




If I get a used tank I always clean thoroughly with bleach solution, leave on for 15 minutes, and rinse several times. But after that, white distilled vinegar is what I use to keep the glass clean, since it's non-toxic and doesn't require rinsing. For hard water deposits, any acidic cleaner works well though. For organic deposits, use an alkaline cleaner. If you're having a hard time getting off hard water deposits (white stuff) with vinegar, you can use muriatic acid (sometimes sold as concrete cleaner)

I've tried scraping and vinegar, bleach and Oxyclean...from what I've read up on, it just takes a lot elbow grease...will this muriatic acid damage the glass?



If you don't know where a snake is from, (location would tell you if it's a wandering or an eastern) take a look at the spots. See how they overlap the dorsal stripe? That gives it away as a wandering. (T. elegans vagrans)

Cool!

[ConcinusMan]

No solution. Straight white distilled vinegar. It's safe to use to clean the glass, even while the snakes are still in the tank. Doesn't seem to bother them. Just dampen a cloth or paper towel with the vinegar and wipe the glass clean. You can also add a little hydrogen peroxide to the mix for extra germ killing power. Also doesn't need to be rinsed. Its unstable and so it quickly breaks down into oxygen and H20.

Muriatic acid is fairly weak. (but much stonger acid than vinegar) It won't damage the glass if it isn't left on for a long time. It will instantly melt away hard water deposits. Then rinse it off right away. Won't hurt the glass. It is acid however. Use all precautions/gloves, ventilation, etc.

[angrygamer]

For cleaning with vinegar..how exactly do you make the vinegar solution? What parts vinegar to water I mean? And you use this whenever you clean out the tanks?

Well, the tank I just bought has a white film on a lot of the glass...I don't know if it's calcium, we have really hard water here in New Mexico, or if it's lime deposits...in any event, I mix a 5% distilled vinegar 50:50 water solution...I have also tried 10% bleach, Oxyclean and baking soda. From what I've read up on, CLR doesn't really do the job either.

[ConcinusMan]

CLR sucks. Whether its calcium or lime, only a fairly strong acid will take it off. No need to mix water with the vinegar. Works better if it isn't diluted. Baking soda is just the opposite of what you need to take off calcium/lime so it won't do anything. You need a very low Ph (acidic) to break down C/L.

[infernalis]

That razor blade scraper I already posted works wonders.

[ConcinusMan]

I've tried those and somehow managed to scratch the glass permanently. I learned the chemistry involved while working in a juice manufacturing plant. A strong enough acid (ph 1.0-2.0) will melt the deposits like it was nothing, but won't touch cooked on juice crud, or harm the equipment. For that we needed the opposite. A strong alkaline. We used sodium hydroxide solution for organic deposits (ph around 15.0) which in turn, does nothing for hard water deposits.

[angrygamer]

That razor blade scraper I already posted works wonders.

I own the exact razor you posted...it's been a combination of scrubbing and scraping, but it's not all coming off.

Anyway, I have an appointment to go to, I'll check back with y'all later.

[infernalis]

That's why professional janitors use diluted muriatic acid (Hydrochloric acid) to scrub out public shower stalls. If you can get some, be sure to wear rubber gloves.

No calcium buildup on earth can resist that.

[ConcinusMan]

Yup. Melts away like butter in a hot pan on contact. It's also kind of fun to scrape the copper plating off the edges of a zinc core penny and drop it in the acid. Within an hour or so, you're left with a hollow penny. The zinc disolves first, leaving just the copper foil behind.:D (pennies made prior to 1983 are solid copper, so those won't work)

[angrygamer]

heh, I just got home to read this...I am going right back out to Home Depo to get some of this stuff.

[Light of Dae]

Hey if you live in Canada I can make you a taller fake rock hide / platform / basking spot / awesome thing lol I've currently got one in my tank that looks like a boulderous mountainous rock hide, My snake loves it.
In the midst of making a taller one for my tank that looks like an old stone building :) as well I'm devising a plan to make one with a swimming pool attached.... <<<---Should be awesome.
I could ship to the states as well... just costs little more.

As far as scraping crap off, I use the scraper pictured (Cheaper version actually) but I scraped it when it was dry, found that when wet with anything it didn't work nearly as well. Dry it all flakes off then vacuum it out n wash it out! (Had do to do that to my tank) Oh the joys of buying used stuff eh?

[tress29]

Oh the joys of buying used stuff eh?

Elbow grease is cheaper than shiny and new!

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I always go to my local pet store and ask for used tanks if I need a new tank before purchasing a new one. If they have any, they will sell me one for really cheap but it's usually dirty and I have to work on it a bit before it is fit to put a snake in...but it's the difference between paying $20 or $30 as opposed to $100 or $150...I got the 20 gallon that Seely is in now for $30 used and it just needed to be cleaned out and disinfected...can't beat that!

[infernalis]

Yeah...I always go to my local pet store and ask for used tanks if I need a new tank before purchasing a new one. If they have any, they will sell me one for really cheap but it's usually dirty and I have to work on it a bit before it is fit to put a snake in...but it's the difference between paying $20 or $30 as opposed to $100 or $150...I got the 20 gallon that Seely is in now for $30 used and it just needed to be cleaned out and disinfected...can't beat that!

Free on the curb.. Got half a dozen that way. ;)

[d_virginiana]

Hm.. I bet those deposits are so hard to get off because it was used as a fish tank before. Aquarium salts/conditioners have some strange things in them... I dread the day when I have to re-purpose my fish tank. It's never that hard to clean deposits off my frog's tank using vinegar and water, and the sides of that get sprayed with hard water about 5 times a day.
Luckily for me, Houdini can't see and is therefore not offended that I put him in a 30 gal. fish tank with the world's most persistent residue :D

My tank is the same type as yours, so to give extra space, I fixed some globs of GreatStuff foam to the side with aquarium silicone (cocofiber pressed into them to make it look natural) and use that as a sturdy anchor point to add fake vines and such. It's strong enough that he can actually climb up in the vines. Also, if I want to change things up a bit, I can just pluck out the fake ivy and stick another fake plant in there. The only problem is that it's semi-permanent, so you have to make sure you want it wherever you put it (lots of hard work and an ice-scraper if you don't), and it gives them access to the cage-top, so you have to be extra paranoid about securing the cage.
Just thought I'd mention that, since my snake became a lot more active after I added that to his tank.

[EasternGirl]

Speaking of securing cage tops...what do you guys do to secure tank tops? Seely is currently trying his hardest to find a way out of the top of his...

[Stefan-A]

Beautiful female.
I disagree.

[chris-uk]

I disagree.
Your think it's male, or ugly? ;)

[infernalis]

Speaking of securing cage tops...what do you guys do to secure tank tops? Seely is currently trying his hardest to find a way out of the top of his...

Cover clips, Sitting heavy objects on top, purchase locking "tank tops" or build wood tank covers that cannot come off.

[Stefan-A]

Your think it's male, or ugly? ;)
The former.

[EasternGirl]

Your think it's male, or ugly? ;) Rofl...

I have the heavy things sitting on top of the cover...I tried the clips...next step is just to buy the tank with the lock lid when I get the money.

[infernalis]

Rofl...

I have the heavy things sitting on top of the cover...I tried the clips...next step is just to buy the tank with the lock lid when I get the money.

What size tank do need a lid for? I found these really nice covers that lock into the inner lip of tanks converting them into a Viv, they sell covers for 10 gallon tanks at wal mart for 8 bucks.

http://www.thamnophis.co/things/cover.jpg

[EasternGirl]

20 gallon...just the one...the other tanks are fine. But Seely is in a 20 gallon that just has a standard lid on it and he was working very hard last night to try to find a way to escape...and he is really small. Where did you get those...that fit into the inner lip? How do you get into the tank once you fit that down in there?

[infernalis]

There is slide latches with knobs on them, slide them in and it lifts off, slide them out it locks down.

I have them on a couple 20 tall tanks too..

[EasternGirl]

Where do I get them?

[infernalis]

Well that sucks, I just looked and the ebay seller I got the larger ones from is no longer a registered user.

Here is your search criteria "Four paws screen cover"

Happy hunting.

[angrygamer]

That's why professional janitors use diluted muriatic acid (Hydrochloric acid) to scrub out public shower stalls. If you can get some, be sure to wear rubber gloves.

No calcium buildup on earth can resist that.

OK, yesterday I treated it twice.

The first time I let it sit for about five minutes then scrubbed. Then I treated it again letting it sit for fifteen minutes and scrubbed. It got a lot of it, I think I will go back and give it a onceover with vinegar, and if it doesn't come off I'll do it again. Thanks for the suggestion! I read up on this a lot and I didn't see this suggestion anywhere else.



Hey if you live in Canada I can make you a taller fake rock hide / platform / basking spot / awesome thing lol I've currently got one in my tank that looks like a boulderous mountainous rock hide, My snake loves it.
In the midst of making a taller one for my tank that looks like an old stone building :) as well I'm devising a plan to make one with a swimming pool attached.... <<<---Should be awesome.
I could ship to the states as well... just costs little more.

As far as scraping crap off, I use the scraper pictured (Cheaper version actually) but I scraped it when it was dry, found that when wet with anything it didn't work nearly as well. Dry it all flakes off then vacuum it out n wash it out! (Had do to do that to my tank) Oh the joys of buying used stuff eh?

Oh, the joy! Hey, I might be interested in something like this...I am not too sure yet, we'll see. I live in the States.



Hm.. I bet those deposits are so hard to get off because it was used as a fish tank before. Aquarium salts/conditioners have some strange things in them... I dread the day when I have to re-purpose my fish tank. It's never that hard to clean deposits off my frog's tank using vinegar and water, and the sides of that get sprayed with hard water about 5 times a day.
Luckily for me, Houdini can't see and is therefore not offended that I put him in a 30 gal. fish tank with the world's most persistent residue :D

My tank is the same type as yours, so to give extra space, I fixed some globs of GreatStuff foam to the side with aquarium silicone (cocofiber pressed into them to make it look natural) and use that as a sturdy anchor point to add fake vines and such. It's strong enough that he can actually climb up in the vines. Also, if I want to change things up a bit, I can just pluck out the fake ivy and stick another fake plant in there. The only problem is that it's semi-permanent, so you have to make sure you want it wherever you put it (lots of hard work and an ice-scraper if you don't), and it gives them access to the cage-top, so you have to be extra paranoid about securing the cage.
Just thought I'd mention that, since my snake became a lot more active after I added that to his tank.

Yeah, it was a fish tank. Thanks for all the suggestions! That Great Stuff stuff is something I was looking for!


I disagree.

I will post more pics when I have the time.


Rofl...

I have the heavy things sitting on top of the cover...I tried the clips...next step is just to buy the tank with the lock lid when I get the money.

Aw, geez...when I went to buy the 10 gallon, I completely forgot about the lid. When I got home, I thought, "I'll make a lid!" Boy, snakes sure are escape artists!

[EasternGirl]

They really are...you have to be really careful to make a lid that is safe and escape proof.

[EasternGirl]

Well that sucks, I just looked and the ebay seller I got the larger ones from is no longer a registered user.

Here is your search criteria "Four paws screen cover"

Happy hunting....okay...I will go a hunting!

[ConcinusMan]

Rofl...

I have the heavy things sitting on top of the cover...I tried the clips...next step is just to buy the tank with the lock lid when I get the money.

They only last a few years and then the clips break, leaving a small gap. The plastic isn't very durable. Inevitably, they get brittle and sort of just fall off.

The clip method isn't very convenient but will last longer. You have to use one at each end and one on each side. Just bend them to adjust for a tight fit.

[ConcinusMan]

Speaking of securing cage tops...what do you guys do to secure tank tops? Seely is currently trying his hardest to find a way out of the top of his...

These clips at petco, combined with the screen tops they sell at standard sizes are very secure. It's just that there's no instructions for the dang clips. I did finally figure out how to use them. You have to bend them till they form a "V" shape instead of an "L". I have no idea what the two small pieces are for. I just use the big pieces. You need 4 clips (2 packages) per top. If you figure out how to use these clips, you don't need to weigh down the screen.

clips: Petco Reptile Screen Cover Security Clips at PETCO (http://www.petco.com/product/4353/Petco-Reptile-Screen-Cover-Security-Clips.aspx)

screens: Screen Covers from PETCO.com (http://www.petco.com/N_4294958042/Screen-Covers.aspx?fromsearch=true&CoreCat=LookAhead)

[chris-uk]

At the moment with Vlad in a temporary RUB... I its not actually a RUB, but a similar sort of plastic box without the locking handles. So when I was drilling the air holes I put a hole in each corner of the lip and the lid gets secured with cable ties, I sleep a lot better not relying on the flimsy locking on the RUB.
For a while I was paranoid enough that I put a cable tie through the locking hole of our ExoTerra, but I got over that and have faith in the door latch now.