T.s.sirtalis (Florida Blue) on the Ranch

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks to Ed (Eddie) I now have a female het. albino Florida Blue (T.s.sirtalis) living on the Ranch.
She has a strange birth defect but is welcome to live her life out her on the Ranch.
Obviously she will not be bred.
I picked her up at the airport this morning. She came out of the box with an attitude but I'm holding no grudges.
She's had a hard 15 hours.
That last photo is the defect. She has a kink in the spine near that location but "Lucky 2" wouldn't let me get a good photo of the kink.
Her cloaca is normal and Ed say's she eats, poops and sheds normally.
Thanks Ed for giving me the opportunity to work with her.
She is beautiful.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/florida_blue21.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/florida_blue3.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/florida_blue11.jpg

[infernalis]

Awe.. good luck with her Steve.

[EasternGirl]

She is a very pretty girl and very lucky to be in a great new home! I forgot to ask you earlier...does she have a name?

[katach]

Lucky 2 is going to love it at your place! Congrats on the new addition! She is a looker for sure.

[chris-uk]

She's in a good place Steve. I'll be interested to see how this little one develops with you.

[ssssnakeluvr]

wow...odd looking defect! cool snake too! she has a great home! these guys do have attitude!!! got a trio of them myself =)

[Eddie]

Glad she arrived safely Steve! Let me know how she is from time to time.
Eddie

[snakehill]

Wow! She is a beauty!!!:)

[tress29]

She has a strange birth defect but is welcome to live her life out her on the Ranch.
Living a life of ease... Very pretty girl!

[PINJOHN]

Steve like Don i also have a trio of florida's and he is spot on with his description they can be as nice as pie one minute letting you hold them climbing all over you and seeming to enjoy it, then the next time you approach their viv they will hurtle themselves all over the place smashing up against the glass and anything else that gets in their way but one thing in their favor they love their chuck,.... kept a few over the years and never had a problem with one of them come chow time, and while we are on the subject will lucky2 have any special feeding requirments [food cut up smaller for instance] by the way i would have called her Quasimodo [quasi] for short ...or is that too cruel

[guidofatherof5]

I offered up some tilapia and turkey heart. She was pissy about taking it but did eat.
I hope to spend some time with her in the next couple of weeks.
She's a pretty girl.

[Eddie]

If she gives you a hard time eating try unscented f/t fuzzy mice. She loves them!
Good luck with her
Ed

[guidofatherof5]

I think she'll be fine.
Once quarantine is over she get a roommate and that will help.

[EasternGirl]

Poor girl...she's just getting adjusted. She will come to love you like all the snakes do Steve!

[guidofatherof5]

I saw Lucky2 out this evening so I spent a little time with her. She gladly and nicely took some fillet from me and also ate unscented turkey heart.
Her attitude was pleasant.

[EasternGirl]

Good to hear Steve....the love of the Steve will win her over, no doubt in my mind!

[RedSidedSPR]

She's purdy.:)

Weird defect.... but she's still purdy.

[ConcinusMan]

oooh, freaky birth defect!

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky2 is in blue phase (ecdysis, shedding).
I'll get a few new photos as soon as she's done.

[RedSidedSPR]

Looking forward to it!

[guidofatherof5]

and while we are on the subject will lucky2 have any special feeding requirments [food cut up smaller for instance] by the way i would have called her Quasimodo [quasi] for short ...or is that too cruel

Sorry I didn't answer your question in a more timely fashion.

I don't think she'll require anything special. She seems be taking all the food I've offered so far.

[guidofatherof5]

Here she is awaiting her new suit.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida_blue31.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome!

[guidofatherof5]

Here is Lucky2, all shed and beautiful.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida_blue4.jpg

[snakehill]

WOW!!!!!:eek:

[RedSidedSPR]

WOW!!!!!:eek:

Pft. It goes like this:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

She is a beautiful snake.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/fb.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/fb11.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/fb21.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/fb3.jpg

[kimbosaur]

Great shots

[Light of Dae]

Beautiful snake, Her defect made me wonder if she was going to be a twin but the other embryo stopped growing n just joined / adsorbed there like that... happens all the time. Either way she's a great looking girl in good hands.

[guidofatherof5]

Chris-uk and I had a discussion on Skype with regards to this snake:
"If I had to guess, I'd say that it's a chimera, and that one embryo absorbed two others with the visible sign being that there are two additional partially-formed tails."
This was a new word to me but sounds like both of you are on the same page.

Chimera (genetics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29)

[chris-uk]

Chimera was my best guess, which is one of the ways you end up with two-headed snakes. As I mentioned on Skype actually proving that she's a chimera is difficult, would require genetic tests on samples from the body and each of the odd growths. There are other explanations, it's possible it was caused by a failure in the mechanism that controls growth as an embryo. I'm sure there could be other causes as well. It would be worth taking regular photos of the defect so that you can pick up any changes, I'd be interested to know whether there is any growth of the extra tails, or whether they become relatively smaller as she grows.
Whatever the cause, I'm sure that most of the time this sort of defect would lead to a stillborn.

She's a beautiful snake Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

As soon as I have some extra money I'm getting a x-ray of the area.
Will be neat to see what's going on. I feel a definite bony structure that isn't normal.
I will post photos of the x-ray once I get them.

[Selkielass]

What a beauty!
I agree that that deformity looks like part of a partial siamese twin, but others have already said it much better than I could.
I rather like her extra coils.

[EasternGirl]

Those are awesome pics Steve! Beautiful girl!

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome photos!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky 2 continues to do well and is now preparing to shed again.
She's a strong eater and is a welcome addition to the Ranch.

[aquamentus_11]

awesome, i was going to ask if you would think of getting some x-rays taken. can't wait to see what's going on in there. how does that segment move with the rest of her body?

[mikem]

good to hear she's doing well! is there bone in the defect or is it just tissue, like a growth or something? i'm assuming she has no apparent discomfort or any kind of troubles with it, yes? very odd... never seen anything like that. lucky girl!

[EasternGirl]

Glad to hear she is doing well!

[Eddie]

Hi Steve
Glad to here she is doing so well. I knew the Ranch was the right place for her!
Eddie

[guidofatherof5]

Hi Steve
Glad to here she is doing so well. I knew the Ranch was the right place for her!
Eddie

Thank you Eddie. I hope we can do her justice here. She's a welcome member of our ranch family.

[guidofatherof5]

Yesterday she filled up on pinkies and today when I put tilapia in for her cage mate she decided to eat most of that.
She's a pig.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/polskablue.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Nice and full!

[Eight]

She truly is a beautiful snake. I think the deformity just gives her more character and would make anyone a great pet. Glad she has found a good home.

[RicMartin]

She looks beautiful and happy. She's in the best hands.

[InsanePirateDragon]

She is quite a looker despite the nearly extra limbs.

[guidofatherof5]

Thought it was time for an update on this beauty.
She's putting on some size and seems to be doing well. I have noticed that the bend in the spine is getting more severe.
Not sure where it's headed but she will be cared for no matter what.
She was moved into the female concinnus paddock last Saturday and is doing well. She doesn't take any crap from those girl.:D
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fb4.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fb12.jpg

[ProXimuS]

What a strange defect:eek: Glad she's in good hands, where we know she will be well taken care of. Hope it doesn't start to cause any problems.

[guidofatherof5]

The last couple of months it looks like this beauty is getting thick. Big healthy girl.
She was enjoying some tilapia in the second photo.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida11.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida3.jpg

[mikem]

Hope she continues to do well!

[jaleely]

she's a doll!
is that two vents she has or is it just a swirl in the scales? weird, weird!
i hope that kink doesn't mess her up as she gets older.
she's pretty!

[guidofatherof5]

she's a doll!
is that two vents she has or is it just a swirl in the scales? weird, weird!
i hope that kink doesn't mess her up as she gets older.
she's pretty!

The deformity is up from the vent. She a bold girl and I also hope she doesn't have problems in the future.
I'm just glad she's here.

[ProXimuS]

Glad she's doing well and hope she continues too!

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Did she ever end up getting an x-ray??

[guidofatherof5]

Did she ever end up getting an x-ray??

Not yet. Money is tight.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Not yet. Money is tight.

Yeah, I understand that. Too bad none of us are Garter Snake Vets :)

[ConcinusMan]

He has a good vet. What he needs is an X-ray tech to produce the X-ray for his snake vet.;)

Really Steve? It shouldn't cost more than $30. When I broke my arm in May, I was only charged $19 and I got a copy on CD for free.

Of course, if I went to a vet, they would charge no less than $60 or so.:rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Took a nice photo showing the curves in the back of this awesome snake.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida21.jpg

[Eddie]

Glad to see a new pic of her Steve. I knew she would have a good life with you!!
Thanks for caring for her.
Ed

[guidofatherof5]

She's very social. She also doesn't take any crap from the big concinnus girls. I'm glad to have her here. Thanks.

[jaleely]

poor thing! I'm glad she seems to be doing well though. Do you think the kinking will get any worse? Does she ever show any sign of distress because of it? Sounds like she hasnt' so far, which is good lol

[guidofatherof5]

poor thing! I'm glad she seems to be doing well though. Do you think the kinking will get any worse? Does she ever show any sign of distress because of it? Sounds like she hasnt' so far, which is good lol

She'll go into a twist if she tries to move too quickly. I think it has gotten a little worse but don't think it will go much further. She's calmed down a lot since she went into the larger enclosure. On a food day she'll wait by the front until I bring the food. She's also not shy about taking on a concinnus for some food.

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky2 is opaque and was moved from her normal inclosure since there is a male T.s.concinnus in there.
She isn't happy and is off food right now. Hoping that will all change after the shed.
She has her birth defects but also has some smaller bumps/lumps/kinks on her spine.
I have a feeling these are going to get worse as she ages but we will try to make her comfortable her on the Ranch.
She has a sweet attitude.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/grumpy.jpg

[snake man]

I honestly do not know of a better place for her to be.

[ProXimuS]

I know she's well taken care of at the ranch:) Does she ever have any shedding issues?

[guidofatherof5]

I know she's well taken care of at the ranch:) Does she ever have any shedding issues?

None so far.

[Eddie]

She looks like she has grown quite a bit since she has been at the Ranch. I am so glad you took her and gave her a great life!
Thanks Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

The thanks is all to you Eddie. Thanks for trusting me with such a wonderful snake.

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky 2 is back eating. She had two pieces of tilapia and 2 large night crawlers.
I think movement for her is getting more difficult and backward motion is terrible. Backing up cause her to flip over on her back.
I don't think her quality of life has diminished much. Hoping she has many more years left on the Ranch.

[guidofatherof5]

Thought I'd post an new photo of Lucky 2. Her back seems to be tightening up some.
She's doing as well as can be expected.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida31.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=11720&title=florida31&cat=755)

[Eddie]

Hi Steve
I hope she does well or years to come. I have Florida blues approaching 10 years old now. Thanks again for taking her in.
Ed

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for trusting me with her. I love her and am glad she's here. I'll give her the best I can.

[d_virginiana]

My Florida blue seems to be tougher than all my others. Hopefully she will have a long time left :)

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky 2 is such a sweet snake. She won't be winning any races but we love her anyway.
She does like her tilapia.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida4.jpg

[Eddie]

She looks good Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a few photos of her deformity. She's developed a number of kinks besides the most obvious. This isn't all of them but the most predominant ones.
Photos #1 and 2 or a bottom and top view, respectively.
All-in-all I think she is doing well. She holds her own against the big female concinnus girls. She doesn't seem to be in any distress or pain.
I keep a close eye on her.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida6.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida7.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida9.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/florida8.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

What the?

[Eddie]

She was born that way. She had such a great personality and feeding response that I had to give her a shot. Once she got big enough and well established I asked Steve if he would care for her.
Thanks again Steve!

[ConcinusMan]

So fortunate that it didn't cause growth to develop into a fatal situation. Actually it still could although the chances diminish with each successful growth period. She's already obviously an adult. I would think if the deformity was going to kill her it would have happened by now. Am I interpreting the photos correctly? I mean, does food pass through that really bad kink? I would think there would be some bottleneck effect/risk of bowel obstruction in that spot.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data/755/medium/florida6.jpg

[Eddie]

She never had a problem passing her food for me. By the size of her now I would say she has no obstruction.
Steve has had her longer than I did.

[ConcinusMan]

Well I suppose if the digestive system follows the mid line and is pretty much normal than it's only a slight curve so no biggie. I would be very interested for the sake of scientific curiosity, to see an X-ray of that snake or even better, a GI nuclear (barium) scan or something similar. Anything that reveals what's going on inside but I suppose that opening her up postmortem would work too.

Yeah, yeah, I like to "poke dead things with a stick" (morbid curiosity) :p

[guidofatherof5]

I'm taking her with me when I visit the Vet. next time.
Hoping he'll be curious enough to give a free x-ray.

[Eight]

I'm taking her with me when I visit the Vet. next time.
Hoping he'll be curious enough to give a free x-ray.


Fingers crossed for you. It sure would be interesting to see what's going on inside.

She seems to be doing well in your care, and its good she is getting the chance to live out her life.

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky2 enjoyed some turkey heart this evening.

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky2 has been off food ever since I moved her to her own enclosure. Today, I offered chicken liver scented night crawlers and it worked great.
She ate 5 large night crawlers and is now resting in her hide. She also has a new roommate. Hannibelle(the cannibal) now lives with here. Since Lucky2 is 3 times bigger then her there shouldn't be any issues.

[guidofatherof5]

I finally got a x-ray of Lucky2. Will post a full update and photos later today.

[guidofatherof5]

What's not shown in the x-ray is her wonderful attitude. She's a great snake to have on the Ranch.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/lucky2_xray.jpg

[Foxrun402]

Hmmm did the vet say anything about it? I'm curious about this, and I feel bad for her even if she has a wonderful attitude and is moving right along. It's awesome of you to take care of her steve!

[guidofatherof5]

When he first looked at her he said "Discospondylitis" but after viewing the x-ray he said he didn't think that was the problem. He did say it could be caused by a number of thing. Bacterial, viral and genetic issues. He said the damage was certainly done and all I could do was make her as comfortable as possible.
That won't be a problem.

http://www.stvetspecialists.com/DiscoInfo.htm

[chris-uk]

Is the severe kink on the left side of the x-ray? The bit that looks like a "3"?

[guidofatherof5]

Is the severe kink on the left side of the x-ray? The bit that looks like a "3"?

Don't understand your question Chris.

[Eddie]

Hi Steve
That x ray is not really what I expected. The spine looks much worse on the inside than what you can see on the outside. She was born that way but I dont think it is genetic. I have had kinks in other babies over the years and I think it is a product of captive breeding conditions and possibly temp related or a lack of a varied diet for the mother. I'm not really sure.
Either way thanks again for taking her in and giving her a great life!
Ed

[guidofatherof5]

Lucky 2 enjoyed a few pinkies tonight. She's been a little shy about eating lately because she was moved out of her big enclosure.
She'll be back with her girls in about 2 weeks, by then the male concinnus should be done his work.