Horrible table manners...

[Thamnophis]

My 0.3 Thamnophis sirtalis pickeringii 2011 are the most horrible garters I ever had when it comes to their eating behavior.
We all know that most garter snakes cannot be left alone during the feeding (especially juveniles) because they all want the same prey!
But my pickeringii took this behavior to a next level. They are even worse than my Thamnophis hammondii!

The first picture is from a different situation than the following three. On this picture you see the most dangerous situation you can get. One has "swallowed" the complete head from the other. This leads when unattended, often to the death of both snakes.

On picture 2, 3, and 4 you see a situation that is a little less dangerous. Most of the time they let go after a while in this situation. But they can seriously get wounded in their mouths. After I release them from this "french kiss" they start eating in a few minutes again like nothing happened.


Even though I really love my Puget Sound Garter Snakes!!! ;)

http://www.thamnophis.eu/pickeringii_01.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.eu/pickeringii_02.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.eu/pickeringii_03.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.eu/pickeringii_04.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Hope you don't mind but this just came to mind when I saw the photo.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/pickeringii_03.jpg

[dieselbaby]

OMG!!!! I thought my female checkered was bad...she tried to eat her brother a few times.

[Thamnophis]

I love those captions, Steve! Whahahahahahaha

[katach]

Our pugets would be that way if we let them. We have to watch them very carefully during feeding time.

[infernalis]

My puget "Sky" (R.I.P.) was a ravenous feeder. he would eat my finger had I let him.

[katach]

Must a Puget trait then.

[RedSidedSPR]

http://www.thamnophis.eu/pickeringii_04.jpg

That doesn't look good...

[kibakiba]

He raises a lot of snakes, I'm sure he knows what to do in case of an infection. :)

[guidofatherof5]

A bite in the mouth doesn't always mean infections.
I never had to deal with mouth infections from food fights until I got my concinnus group.
My T. radix would occasionally fight like that without any infection.

[ConcinusMan]

I would never feed any west coast sirtalis group unattended. They truly are ruthless and violent. Concinnus' are nearly identical to pickeringii when it comes to their DNA and it shows in their behavior too. Can't turn your back on a group of concinnus' at feeding time or you'll end up with a tangled mess of snakes all biting each other! They'll even ignore food right in front of them in order to chase another snake and try to steal their food!

Especially when feeding them fish, you even have to wash the snake in warm water before placing them together again. Just the smell of fish on a snake's "breath" or skin can cause another snake to bite them long after feeding time is over. Anything that smells like fish, they bite it and proceed to swallow, and won't let go, even if it's another garter!

[kibakiba]

Snap and Ember must be the angels of food fighting, I let them eat from a dish... Both are too skittish to be tong fed like the others, but in 6 months of doing that, I haven't had them fight... And even since I got them, they've only bitten each other 2 times.

[infernalis]

All I have to do is sit down to start chopping up trout, the aroma gets in the air and the fun starts.

[katach]

It's like waving sudafed and batteries in front of a meth addict. :D

[infernalis]

It's like waving sudafed and batteries in front of a meth addict. :D

and you know this how?:D

[katach]

Working in the medical field and also in retail. :D

[BlueGarterz]

:D

[ConcinusMan]

LoL at posts 14 and 15 but so true! Fish or fishy smelling stuff is garter "crack!" LoL. They really do freak out react like dope fiends! Anything for fish, they'll eat their mother, brother, father, son... nobody will stand between them and a bite of fish!

[Thamnophis]

I never experienced mouth infections thanks to this behavior. A healthy snake is strong enough to get no problems of a biting incident.
Of course I never leave them unattended during the meal. Every now and then I lay my camera next to the terrarium, because I know they will start fooling around.
The juveniles of atratus often also behave like pigs, as well as hammondii and sirtalis black.
Most of the time eques scotti and eques cuitzeoensis, as well as tetrataenia, melanogaster and cyrtopsis ocellatus eat like well mannered ladies :)

[EasternGirl]

Well I learned my lesson about feeding my girls together last night...and apparently pinkies are crack for Cee Cee...

Lmao about the sudafed and batteries...

[ConcinusMan]

Heehee. Way off topic, but... Not just any batteries, has to be lithium batteries.. So I hear:rolleyes: The snakes are far less picky, almost any fish gets the same reaction.:D

[EasternGirl]

Well Cee Cee decided to eat fish tonight after the five pinkies she ate last night! Good God girl! I don't even want to know why you guys know so much about meth heads....lol!

[ConcinusMan]

Well, in the Northwest it's a downright epidemic. I somehow survived 12 years of abusing it myself. Very, very hard addiction to beat. Been clean for years now though. But back to the snakes... Be careful. Just because she's willing to eat that much doesn't necessarily mean we should let them. Know what I mean?

[infernalis]

northeast is no different. Saw a lab fire from 3/4 mile away once.

[RedSidedSPR]

Still doesn't look good.:D

[EasternGirl]

Around here it's painkillers...and heroin...that are prevalent anyway. We have our share of meth and crack addicts too. Well...that goes back to my thread I posted yesterday about not knowing how much to feed. It seems like I was feeding the snakes too little before...I was only feeding them every couple of weeks...a dish of fish each..or a pinky each. So then I was told I should probably be feeding them more...more like once or twice a week...and to let them eat until they get a nice bulge. Cee Cee's stomach didn't look too bulgy after the pinkies last night...they were very small pinkies...and she hadn't eaten in a couple of weeks. So...how much should I allow them to eat?

[ConcinusMan]

Well, just use your best judgement. A noticeable bulge is fine but just be careful not to overstuff them since it's far more efficient to digest modest meals more often, than it is to digest a huge meal infrequently.

[guidofatherof5]

So...how much should I allow them to eat?

I hope this diagram helps. It will give you a location and relative size of a snakes stomach.
Use that to help judge how much to feed.
Many times smaller more frequent meals are just as good as large less frequent ones.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/internalorgans.gif

[EasternGirl]

Yes...I am just going to start offering smaller meals more often...better for them...better for my fingers! :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

It's a "surface area" thing. Smaller food items / meals have more surface area. Just seems to me that they digest more efficiently if you feed them the way I suggested. Also, they tend to be more active even after eating, if they're not stuffed to the gills. It's totally up to you though. I'm not saying one method is better than another. It's just my preference to feed them this way.

[katach]

What i do is feed the piggies first then when they have finished eating i remove them to a holding tank. That way the more timid eaters get full happy tummies too and no fighting. If i separated them right away they wouldn't eat. it works for us. :)

[EasternGirl]

I think what I have decided to do from now on is remove Selena to another tank...then feed Cee Cee in the enclosure, then switch them and feed Selena in the enclosure...I know it sounds complicated but both girls seem to get nervous eating outside of their enclosure...and obviously cannot be feed in the enclosure at the same time. I have also decided to feed lesser amounts more frequently...considering big fat pig Cee Cee looks like she can barely move right now after stuffing herself so much...learned my lesson with that one!! :o

[guidofatherof5]

big fat pig Cee Cee

Such harsh words. :D
Cee Cee you are welcome to roll yourself over to the Ranch anytime. :D

[EasternGirl]

And roll herself over she will...ha ha!

[infernalis]

I think what I have decided to do from now on is remove Selena to another tank...then feed Cee Cee in the enclosure, then switch them and feed Selena in the enclosure...I know it sounds complicated but both girls seem to get nervous eating outside of their enclosure...and obviously cannot be feed in the enclosure at the same time. I have also decided to feed lesser amounts more frequently...considering big fat pig Cee Cee looks like she can barely move right now after stuffing herself so much...learned my lesson with that one!! :o

Almost sounds like another enclosure is in order.

I try and keep my timid and/or agressive snakes solo for just that reason.

[EasternGirl]

Well, I had never tried feeding them together before...it was just something I was trying since neither one seemed like they would act aggressive while eating...guess I was wrong. I don't want to separate them in general...you should see these two...they act like they are in love the rest of the time...they are always curled up together...and if I remove one from the enclosure, the other looks all over for the one that is out of the tank. I honestly think if they were separated it would really bother them...like I keep thinking, if something should happen to either one of them...God forbid, I don't think either one of them could get used to living alone now. But yes...I have learned my lesson in terms of feeding them together...there will be no more of that.

[snakehill]

I just had to separate my girls for they first time! They both latched on to the same baby nightcrawler! Do they like the baby nightcrawlers more than the adults? Jewel just sucked a dozen down one right after the other like they were Lays potato chips! Jade ignored them until Jewel was about to eat the last one then decided at that exact moment that she wanted one! Very Scary!! :eek:

[EasternGirl]

Good thing no one was hurt! They can be little piggies when they want to be ;).