wild garter found out in freezing weather

[garter newbie]

Help - As my boys were leaving for school this morning, they came across a garter snake just sitting in the middle of the walkway. We live in Philadelphia and it is currently 36 degrees outside. The snake didn't move as they approached it. We did determine it is still alive though. Being the animal lovers they are, they wanted to try to help it. They didn't want to see it freeze to death. Aside from relocating it into the flower garden and covering it loosely with leaves, is there anything else we could do to help it survive?

[infernalis]

Help - As my boys were leaving for school this morning, they came across a garter snake just sitting in the middle of the walkway. We live in Philadelphia and it is currently 36 degrees outside. The snake didn't move as they approached it. We did determine it is still alive though. Being the animal lovers they are, they wanted to try to help it. They didn't want to see it freeze to death. Aside from relocating it into the flower garden and covering it loosely with leaves, is there anything else we could do to help it survive?

Can you keep it over the winter?

This time of year it's chances of finding a den are slim.

[guidofatherof5]

It will not survive if the temps. reach freezing or below.
They seek out a place below the frost line for the Winter.
To be honest the chances of it surviving are slim to none.
Have you given any consideration to keeping it?
There is also a possiblity that the snake is sick as being out in those temps is not normal.
Thanks for being concerned for this little one.

[garter newbie]

Well, of course, my boys suggested we take it in. I do have the set up so could try to keep it. About 5 years ago my boys found a brown snake in the yard in the fall and we tried to keep it. We did our best but it didn't survive very long. I guess if this garter's chance of survival is slim if I don't, there's not much harm in trying, right? I'll have to brush up on my snake husbandry but with the help of this forum hopefully he'll do well.

[guidofatherof5]

That will at least give it a chance for survival. You can always release it next Spring
Here's a link to the caresheet.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! Don't do heat lamps or heating pads right away. Let the ambient temp of your home warm the snake up first. Getting too warm too fast could be bad. When you can we would love to see some pictures.

[EasternGirl]

I don't know if I am right about this or not you guys...but should she try putting the snake in a little slightly warm water to help hydrate and warm him up? When I found a garter once that was near freezing to death a lady that a know that has a rescue here did that with the snake...

[EasternGirl]

Oh...one more thing...if you are in Philly, I am in Delaware...if the snake looks like it is going to make it over the next couple of days and we can make arrangements to get to each other and you can't take the snake...I'll take it. You can send me a private message and we can discuss arrangements. Welcome to the forum!

[garter newbie]

Thank you everyone for your quick replies and helpful info. I was a little concerned shortly after I brought him in because he started flailing around with his mouth opened. But then right after this I saw him moving around normally exploring his new habitat. Now his seems to be just curled up resting. @ Katach... thx for the heads up about not using the heat pads/lamp right away. I just turned both off for now. How long before you think I should use them? I'll post a couple pics shortly.

[EasternGirl]

Do you think you would be interested in making arrangements for me to come and get the snake? If you would rather not keep it, I would love to take it...and I could surely take over nursing the snake back to health.

[garter newbie]

Marnie - Thanks for the offer, but as of right now, I think I'm going to give it a try myself. If I change my mind, I will let you know.

Here are some photos: The 1st is how we found him on the walkway, the 2nd was after we moved him to the garden, the 3rd is taken in his new habitat.

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[EasternGirl]

He's a nice looking snake...let me know if you need anything and if you decide that you don't want to keep him, I can give him a good home here. I'm glad that he seems to be doing well for now...thank goodness you and your sons were there to find him!

[guidofatherof5]

I was a little concerned shortly after I brought him in because he started flailing around with his mouth opened.

This is something to be concerned about.
It may be nothing but it may be a sign that something is wrong(sick)
Keep us posted on this situation.

[Mommy2many]

Kinda looks like it may be a little girl snake. Need a better photo to be sure.

[ConcinusMan]

I think the snake was found out in freezing weather because it is terminally ill / dying. It doesn't look well at all. Hope I'm wrong but like Steve was saying, a failure to find a den and go into brumating is often a sign that the snake is ill and/or otherwise not well enough to make it through another winter.

[garter newbie]

Well, I guess only time will tell. I'll keep you posted.

[infernalis]

Good luck.....

Don't lose hope either, I recently found a really beat up eastern out on a cold day with an infection.

With some TLC this snake has made one heck of a turnaround.

Best wishes for a similar outcome.

[katach]

To touch him/her is it still really cold or has the temp of your home brought it's temp up? Once you feel it and it seems like the temp is about the same you can start using a lamp or a pad. Is there tongue flicking? If so that is a positive sign. I would let it settle in and make sure it has plenty of water for now. You may need to try to put it's little head near the water. Keep an eye on it and try feeding in a couple days once it's settled in.

[EasternGirl]

Yes...as it turns out, I ended up finding my own snake suffering from the cold today as well...I have her warming up in an enclosure right now and I am hoping that she will make it as well...she is not doing very well either. Here is hoping that both of our snakes make a turnaround!

[garter newbie]

I really haven't seen it flicking its tongue much at all... maybe only a few times since bringing it in. I did see it with its body in the water for a while last night. As for its temp, it feels up to room temp now so I turned on the lamp as suggested. Shortly there after, it started flailing around with its mouth open again but then settled down by the water in about 30 sec. I shut the lamp off for now till I hear back from one of you.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like there is something wrong(sick).
A Vet. visit would be great if that's possible.
Not sure what a Vet. can do at this point though.
Keep your snake warm, give it access to water and a place to hide.
Best of luck.

[EasternGirl]

Here are some vets near you that take reptiles:

Aston Vet Hospital
Media, PA
484-466-6643

Animal Wellness Center
Chadds Ford, PA
610-822-3375

Keystone Vet Emergency and Referral
Havertown, PA
484-466-6524

Windcrest Animal Hospital
Wilmington, DE
302-415-3927

[d_virginiana]

Hm... It probably is sick, but I wouldn't lose hope just yet. Especially if it's only flailing around when something surprises it or its environment changes. That's definitely not a normal reaction, but I wonder if being out in near freezing temps for that long could be partly causing it. Except in the case of natural brumation and 'waking up' in the spring, I imagine that going from near freezing temps to acceptable ones over a fairly short period of time would probably be very painful, especially if its systems had already begun to shut down.

[garter newbie]

The flailing does seem to occur primarily when it's approached... it's upsetting to watch. I just hope it's not suffering too much. So if it's related to the sudden change in temp should I keep the heating stuff off for a while or what. He seems to want to lay under it at times, though.

[chris-uk]

Maybe give him some more cover in the viv if he seems to react to you approaching? I'm sure I read that you have some hides in there, have you got a couple of places to hide, and is the substrate deep enough to borrow in?
I'd probably keep the heating on if you're providing a gradient and the snake is moving between hot and cooler areas. It's a good sign if he is doing this and regulating his temperature.

[d_virginiana]

Yes, definitely continue to keep him warm. I was just thinking it might be a bit like frost bite in people; no matter how gently you warm it up, it's going to be uncomfortable.

If he's moving around fine and then flails only when approached then that's a good sign. Like Chris said, the more hiding places he can have right now, the better. I've had wild snakes death roll and thrash when handled, so maybe you're lucky and he's just freaking out at being in a new situation.

Best wishes for the little guy!

[EasternGirl]

I am hoping everything is okay with the snake...

[ConcinusMan]

Another explanation that I've seen a time or two, is that the snake chose an active rodent den as shelter. I've seen northwestern garters get "evicted" by rodents in the middle of winter. Last time I saw that happen, it was only 22 degrees (F) outside. The snake couldn't move and was stiff. I thought it was dead, but once I warmed it up it did just fine. No apparent harm done.

[infernalis]

Another explanation that I've seen a time or two, is that the snake chose an active rodent den as shelter. I've seen northwestern garters get "evicted" by rodents in the middle of winter. Last time I saw that happen, it was only 22 degrees (F) outside. The snake couldn't move and was stiff. I thought it was dead, but once I warmed it up it did just fine. No apparent harm done.

That may explain the strange injuries on that yellow eastern I plucked off the ground out back not so long ago.

He was cold, stiff and barely moving, and had a chunk out of his tail.

[dieselbaby]

anxiously awaiting a good new update on the little one. Sure hope no news is good news.:)

[garter newbie]

Sorry for the delay in updating everyone... unfortunately all my efforts were to no avail. My little guy/girl didn't make it through Saturday night. I guess, as originally suspected, it was terminally ill from the get go. I can't thank you all enough for your advice and support through it all. I wish things would have turned out differently but I'm still glad I tried. It was a good life lesson for the boys as well. Thank you again.

[snakehill]

So sorry! You did everything you could! :(

[chris-uk]

Unfortunately I think that most of us expected this outcome, despite hoping it would turn out OK. It's great that you did what you could and gave him a chance.
I hope there's a positive in it if the life lesson for your boys has kindled an interest in garters?

[infernalis]

Sorry for the delay in updating everyone... unfortunately all my efforts were to no avail. My little guy/girl didn't make it through Saturday night. I guess, as originally suspected, it was terminally ill from the get go. I can't thank you all enough for your advice and support through it all. I wish things would have turned out differently but I'm still glad I tried. It was a good life lesson for the boys as well. Thank you again.

My condolences, you did all you could and for that I salute you.

[dieselbaby]

Im so sorry you lost this lil one. RIP. You did what you could, and at least he didnt die cold and alone. Thank you for caring.

[EasternGirl]

I am so sorry for your loss...my little guy didn't make it either...it's tough when you try to get them back to health and they don't make it. But you tried, and like the others said, he didn't die cold and alone because of you and your children. That means a lot. Rest in peace little guy...

[garter newbie]

Thanks for making me feel better:) I have to admit, the thought entered my mind that maybe I should have just let nature take it's course and let him be... like I just prolonged his suffering, especially the times I would watch him flailing around obviously in pain. But you are all right, at least he wasn't alone and saw someone cared and tried to help him. Marnie - sorry to hear about your guy not making it either :(

[EasternGirl]

Thanks. No...I'm sure we did the right thing taking the little guys in...they had someone who cared in the end...they were loved and kept warm and comforted.

[kibakiba]

That's the most they could ever ask for.

[katach]

Sorry for your loss. You did the best you could for the little one. I hope you will consider a garter as a pet again.

[ConcinusMan]

If it was me, I would put the body back where I found it so it can be "recycled" eaten by other creatures, etc. so it's not wasted. That's not out of some kind of sick minded thing, just the way of nature.

[kibakiba]

That's not exactly sick minded, it is how nature works. I have to agree with that. But, in the end no one can decide what you do.