A tale of many snakes

[Skulexander]

Here's how my story goes. It may have been last summer, or the summer before that (I don't have the greatest memory) that I captured three garter snakes at my grandpa's house and took them home with me. One of them at one time got out, but we found her again. Then, to my surprise, all three of those snakes gave birth. Some of the little snakes didn't make it through the birthing process, but most did. Well, we kept them in a separate tank from their mothers. Some got out now and then, and we put them back. One time we found a smushed one on the floor. That was sad to see. Since we didn't have any idea how to take care of baby snakes, we decided to release them. All save one, because it was too small and weak to survive in the wild. It didn't matter though, since it died anyway. Well, after that, we found another one who had gotten out and was wiggling around on the floor. I decided to keep that one and take care of it. I did the best I could (though maybe I could have done better; I don't know), but the poor thing didn't make it. :( One of the mother garter snakes we gave to a friend. Another died. I'm guessing now that it died from impaction. It must've swallowed a woodchip (which is what we used to use for bedding; we don't anymore). The other one we still have, and in fact my little brother is taking care of it. He loves that snake. She's so tame. She'll eat nightcrawlers right out of your hand. I also once found a brown snake at my grandpa's (Storeria dekayi) and took it home to care for. I loved that little guy, but a few days ago he went missing from his cage, and we haven't found him since. I hope he's alright wherever he is. And I hope that maybe we'll find him (alive). So, that's my story. Oh, and I found this forum by searching Storeria dekayi on Google, and thought it was an interesting place. And since I've kept garter snakes and a brown snake, and may do so again in the future, I thought I might join. So hello everyone! :P

[d_virginiana]

Welcome to the forum!

For your missing brown snake, try putting out a heat source (like a heat mat covered in a towel if you have one), a hide, and a bowl of water. That's the quickest way to find them.
Also, I've seen people use a bowl of warmed whole milk to lure out wild snakes when they wander into houses (something about the smell I guess..) Eh, strange, but it sometimes works.

Could you post pics or descriptions of your cages in another thread? If you're having problems with escapees you might get some good tips on keeping them in their tanks. They're definitely escape artists, all of them :)

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! The care sheet is a great place to start. Would love to see some pics of your dekayi (once you find it) and your brother's garter.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you on the forum.
Sounds like you a major security problem.
Keeping them secure and free from harm is a big part of caring for them.
Hoping you solve this problem and soon.

[Skulexander]

The tank wasn't completely covered. It had an open space in the back, but that's never been a problem. The brown snake was never able to get out, until I put a heat rock in there. I'm guessing he climbed up the cord and got out.

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a finally dry Liverpool

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaz93quM1Ay0V0d7uMRqvUm3CpZZtMC wWq2SdiSWB_eWH5brgjzghttp://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4y1dPtN-EVPENg1BYYsLqoHg5jOJOmruRHFC-G6D7nGLBSxPphA
baby's especially can glide up glass after wetting their bodies in the water bowl, these little fella's make Houdini look like an amateur :eek:

[Skulexander]

It wasn't a baby though. It was an adult.

[Skulexander]

I put a heat rock, a bowl of warm milk, and that coconut cave he liked to hide in so much on the floor in my room to lure him out of hiding. I'm skeptical that it will work though, since we have a decent-sized house with three floors (I'm including the basement) and so many places for him to hide in. Especially since my room's probably the coolest place in the house, and it's on the second/top floor. Is there a place he's most likely to be in? The basement? The warmest part of the house? Please help me.

[guidofatherof5]

Warm milk?

[Skulexander]

Yes

[Stefan-A]

Why?

[guidofatherof5]

Why? Dairy products would not be an appropriate food item. I don't think their systems are built to digest it.
I don't know if it would harm them but what might be good for us doesn't always translate into them.
I'm sure if I scented apples or oranges I could get my snakes to eat them but that doesn't mean it's good for them.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time. Just trying to assist you with making a healthy, safe environment for your snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

The forum care sheet is always a good way to learn about these wonderful snakes.
Much of what needs to be done for them is duplicating a wild environment for them only on a much smaller scale.
Not only in food but the enclosure they live in.
I would not recommend a heat rock. One problem is the cord if you have to run it out the top of the enclosure. Second is, as a rule the heat can't be regulated and the chance of a snake being burned greatly increases.

Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)

[Skulexander]

I put the bowl of warm milk on the floor in my room to lure the snake that got out of its tank out of hiding, if he's still around, because someone posted that they've seen other people do that. I was just taking someone's advice to get my lost snake back. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But if it does, then great!

[d_virginiana]

Yeah, you need to put water out (I think I mentioned that in my first post?). They won't drink the milk, and they can get dehydrated really quickly. You'd be surprised how much they get around, so it's not far-fetched to think he'd end up on the second floor, especially if there's a heat mat there. Though if there's a place in your house you think he'd be more likely to show up, you can put some water/heat there as well.

They won't drink the milk, but on occasions when my family members and neighbors have had wild snakes in their houses, they will put out a dish of something sweet like warm milk, and the snakes will end up going to investigate the new smell. It's just a folk remedy sort of thing, but when you're trying to find a lost pet, you might was well try everything. I've even seen someone do it with a chocolate pie once :eek: She put it in a random kitchen cabinet and left the door open. In about an hour she found the ratsnake that had been loose in her house for a week going in to check it out so she closed it up and got someone to come take it outside.

[d_virginiana]

Heat mats on the sides of tanks are okay, since you can regulate them and they are built to disperse the heat, but not the rocks. I'm actually wondering if that could be a fire hazard to just sit out somewhere now that I think about it.. Heck, *I've* been seriously burned by heat rocks before. They're not great for pets.

[Skulexander]

I'll keep that in mind.
The tank that the snake was in was on the second floor, so he started out on the second floor. I was wondering if he would migrate to the basement maybe or to the warmest part of the house? What would be most likely?

[Skulexander]

Oh, and I put a small bowl of water out for him too now. I hope I find him. :(

[guidofatherof5]

Good deal.

[Skulexander]

I've attached a couple photos. The first is of Casey (my brother's snake; he named her). She's about one and a half feet long, I think. The second is of her terrarium, which is a 30-gallon. She has a heat rock, which I've never had problems with before. The temperature is always in the mid-seventies (F), so getting too cold is not a problem for her. I don't know what kind of substrate that is. All I know is that it's some special snake bedding I bought at the pet store. She seems to love it as she's always burrowing in it. My brother feeds her nightcrawlers everyday. He even tries to feed her when she's clearly not hungry. lol

EDIT: I forgot to mention that she's a Butler's garter snake, Thamnophis butleri

[guidofatherof5]

Too much food isn't good.
Be sure they don't eat any of that bedding. Looks like aspen.

[Skulexander]

How often should he feed her?

EDIT: And I think it is aspen.

[d_virginiana]

Depends on the snake and what you're feeding. For my adult Eastern (about 25-26 inches) he gets a couple of mice about once a week with some minnows or worms as snacks whenever we feed the baby snake. Minnows and worms are more quickly digested than pinkie mice, so they can be fed more often, like two or three times a week as long as you don't go overboard. With an only mouse diet, you'd want to probably only feed once a week.

Also, depends on your snake's activity level. My adult male gets fed that often because he NEVER stops moving. The younger one is much more sedentary, so she won't get fed that often as she gets older.

They enjoy variety too; have you ever tried fish fillets or mice?

[Stefan-A]

They won't drink the milk, but on occasions when my family members and neighbors have had wild snakes in their houses, they will put out a dish of something sweet like warm milk, and the snakes will end up going to investigate the new smell. It's just a folk remedy sort of thing, but when you're trying to find a lost pet, you might was well try everything.
It still sounds like a BS remedy.

[kibakiba]

I gotta agree with you there Stefan. I doubt milk does anything other than make you think the snake will come out.

[d_virginiana]

It still sounds like a BS remedy.

Well, it is a backwoods folk remedy. That's why I only mentioned it AFTER telling him to put out water, a heat mat, and a hide :rolleyes:

I have seen it work, but every time I've heard people use it, they mention using warm foods, so that's probably why it attracts them, since most people don't have heat mats available if they don't already keep reptiles. A freshly baked pie sitting in a corner would probably seem like a pretty inviting heat source in a cool house. I never really gave much thought as to WHY it works before, since I've just grown up hearing it, but I do think that explanation makes sense.
But I guess when you're talking to people that actually have heat mats and stuff, it's not really very practical as a heat source now that I really think about it. :p Also not entirely sanitary.

Now I kind of want to do an experiment next time I go home to see how curious my snakes would be to investigate non-edible things like fruit/milk/ect. Like, to see if a sudden strong smell like that makes them curious, spooks them, or if they even care at all.

[Skulexander]

I'd be too uncomfortable feeding the snake mice. That's why we don't have big snakes. I'll try fish fillets sometime though. :)

I'll get rid of the milk, but I'll keep trying the water, heat source, and hiding place. I'll put them in different areas of the house now and then, and hopefully I'll eventually find the snake.

[d_virginiana]

Make sure you check out the caresheets and stuff on what fish is okay to feed and how you need to freeze it to avoid parasites and stuff. Certain types of fish contain an enzyme that is harmful to garters if fed over a long term. Tilapia seems to be a hit with a lot of snakes :)

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/6654-safe-fish-list.html

[Skulexander]

Thanks!