picked up two red sided garters

[pauleve]

Hi guys I purchased 2 "red sided garter snakes" from my L.R.S. They both probed as female.Two questions really 1-Anybody like to narrow the shops "red sided" down to a particular sub species 2- All indications are that they are female )1 -probed as )2-seem to have a uniform long tapering tail from the cloaca First snake http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7244/cimg1467y.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/cimg1467y.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us) http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7198/cimg1470k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/cimg1470k.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us) http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5878/cimg1471.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/252/cimg1471.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us) http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3599/cimg1472y.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/cimg1472y.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[pauleve]

Here are pics of the 2nd "red sided"



http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7167/cimg1474.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/cimg1474.jpg/)

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http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8391/cimg1475r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/cimg1475r.jpg/)

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http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6590/cimg1478.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/cimg1478.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6505/cimg1477.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/407/cimg1477.jpg/)

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Cheers Paul

[chris-uk]

Welcome to the forum Paul.

I can't help identify specific species for you, but they're fine looking garters. Unless the colours haven't come out well in the photos the colours look nice and natural, like they've not been bred to bring out any particular colouring. I like the natural colours, much prefer them to morphs.

[pauleve]

Cheers Chris yeah picked them up from Viper and Vine in Manchester .Wont let me change my profile details to say I am from uk. Dont suppose you would like to hazard a guess at their sexes :)

[guidofatherof5]

First is female.
The second appears male to me.
Any chance you can post a photo of that second tail stretched out?

[pauleve]

Cheers Steve was thinking the same as the anal plate on the 2nd has a straighter edge compared to the first will get pics tomorrow as they have had their first feed today.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Any chance your probes are just not narrow enough? you need a SUPER tiny probe to probe a garter snake.... the second one looks male to me as well but a tail stretched out photo would be helpful!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis is the full name of these snakes :)

[pauleve]

Thanks for your feedback aSnakeLovinBabe .The probing was done by the shop so have no verification on the size of probes.Will get stretched out tail pics this afternoon.I was thinking they are parietalis but again as I purchased them from a shop we all know they give their stock generic names :) Was wondering whether I had Thamnophis sirtialis fitchi .I must say these are no more than 1 foot long

[pauleve]

well tried my best but this one is a right wriggler :D Here
goes
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7936/cimg1525y.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/cimg1525y.jpg/)

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http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1284/cimg1526ay.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/cimg1526ay.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/862/cimg1531o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/cimg1531o.jpg/)

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[guidofatherof5]

I should have been more clear when I asked for a photo. Need an underside photo.
Sorry for not being specific.

[pauleve]

Doh thats me being an idiot :)
How's these

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8271/cimg1532.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/cimg1532.jpg/)

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http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2424/cimg1533.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/cimg1533.jpg/)

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[guidofatherof5]

Male.
No tapper in the first inch or so.

[ConcinusMan]

First is female.
The second appears male to me.


Yeah, me too. Looks like you got yourself a pair of Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis'. Red sided (not to be confused with CA red sided)

Garter snakes display sexual dimorphism. We don't need no stinkin' probes!:D Just pics. It's easy to miss the inverted hemipene on a male, causing it to probe as female, if you're not far enough over to one side or the other or if the probe is just a little to big in diameter.

[pauleve]

Thanks Guys chuffed to have a pair .First dabble into herping was with garters around 20 years ago and decided to get back into them.I seem to remember being told back then a way of spotting sexual difference was by way of the anal plate being curved for female and straighter for males.Or is that me imagining things in my old age :)

[ConcinusMan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html