Store-bought Frozen Frog Legs?

[kimbosaur]

I bought these from the store today. The packaging just said "frog legs" under ingredients and it's a product of Vietnam. What do you guys think? Okay?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pOV4oX1q5d0/TqXtmx1kQOI/AAAAAAAAAC0/IorkFr6guBE/s512/320599_10150330661620940_505555939_8500134_1226630 142_n.jpg

Edit: Did a quick google search for "frog legs product vietnam" and it seems that the species is likely Hoplobatrachus rugulosus.

[infernalis]

No.........

[chris-uk]

No way I'd risk it.

[infernalis]

Not to mention, they chopped those legs off live frogs and threw the writhing torso into the trash to die slow.

Stefan once said "I would rather support the sale of panda legs"

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Not to mention, they chopped those legs off live frogs and threw the writhing torso into the trash to die slow.

Stefan once said "I would rather support the sale of panda legs"

Oh wow, that is so horrible. I had no idea they did that :eek:

[kimbosaur]

Oh...crap. Lol. I just saw "frog leg" and thought "snake!"

Out of curiosity, would you mind explaining a little more? Is it because they are from overseas? Parasites? Toxins? Just wondering.


Not to mention, they chopped those legs off live frogs and threw the writhing torso into the trash to die slow.

Stefan once said "I would rather support the sale of panda legs"

As for that, I find the comment a little silly. It didn't even cross my mind about how they processed the frogs and I guess you can say I was a little bit of an ignorant consumer in just purchasing them spontaneously. And yes, it is gross and horrible to think of a bunch of writhing frog torsos in a trash can. But at the same time, if I had asked whether or not feeding beef would be okay, I'm pretty sure that nobody would have mentioned anything about how cows are mass produced on factory farms in abysmal conditions. I am also pretty sure that nobody would have brought up the procedures used to mass-slaughter these cows, or that producing meat creates a higher percentage of greenhouse gases than driving. Finally, I am definitely sure nobody would have mentioned that it takes more water to produce 4 pounds of beef than it does to take a 7-minute shower every single day for a year.

It seems like it is incredibly easy for us to bash foreign practices and procedures while we turn a blind eye to our own practices because they are so common to us. So unless somebody consumes only free-range meat and meat products, or is vegan altogether, I think it's a little hypocritical to bash foreign practices. Sorry, to get a little of track, just my thoughts on the matter. :)

[guidofatherof5]

I think it is less bashing and more fact/info.
This isn't an easy situation and we all have to decide for ourselves what we will do.
It's much like the debate about buying snakes from the sellers that collect wild snakes or import in wild caught snake.
I would like to rescue all of them in this situation but buying them only causes the seller to purchase more. Then this terrible cycle never ends. Unfortunately it may take the death of these snakes to make it uneconomical for them to continue this pratice.
Just my thoughts.

[infernalis]

Please don't think I'm bashing anyone, I'm not a basher....

frog legs are harvested the same way worldwide.

[kimbosaur]

Yes, I can totally relate to that. I used to always go into walmart or petsmart and try to "save" fish. But when you think about it, even if you might have saved one fish, you'be just created another space to be filled.

Just to clarify, I don't mean it in a "well it's no different then buying beef so let's buy away" kind of a way. I just mean we shouldn't ONLY frown upon the cruelty coming from others towards those poor little froggies while we sit down and, say, have a guilt-free steak dinner. I am in no way directing this towards anybody on this thread! For all I know, you guys could be hardcore vegans. I mean it very generally -- in a "we should think of things from all angles" kind of a way.

[kimbosaur]

No no, I didn't mean it that way! Bash might not have been the best word. Maybe "critique" would have been a better choice.

...and btw, I love, love beef but the issues are always in the back (very back) of my mind. I hope that they will one day surface enough for me to do something about it.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

If we want to delve into morals here... Let's not forget to mention the way the fish we can buy at the store to feed our garters are processed... They are treated equally rough... chopped into bits while still alive and aware. And the chicken you buy at the super market was so weighed down by its own muscles it could not walk long before having to sit down, it never saw the light of day, it was thrown, kicked, strung up on a conveyor belt and had it's throat slit by a machine, but not before it had to watch all the ones in front of it suffer this fate first. Same for cows... And The ones that are too sick to walk anymore because they are fed corn instead of grass and have to wade around knee deep in their own filth are shoved to slaughter with a forklift or bulldozer. this all takes place right here in our own country. In fact, those are the industry standards! It's important to take that into account and to be aware of it. We can't protest rattlesnake roundups when we take no issue in supporting these other causes. There is a reason many families hunt and fish for their own meats or will pay the small fortune to have an animal raised on a farm for them.... But then you get people like my mom... It's just horrible that my dad can shoot "Bambi" and she won't eat venison but she has no issue with ground beef. I am ranting, just a little.

[katach]

I would rather eat what my dad hunts. I much prefer that I know where it came from and how and why it was killed. My dad says a prayer whenever he has a successful hunt, and is always sure to thank the animal. He makes sure it is quickly killed so it doesn't suffer. I wish that all our meat was wild game.

[chris-uk]

Back to the frogs legs... I'd be reluctant to feed anything to my snakes when I wasn't comfortable that it wouldn't harm them. To me frogs legs imported from the Far East carry a risk, it may be my prejudice rather than any hard facts. I'd be concerned about parasites (maybe not an issue if they are frozen for a couple of months) and also bacteria from unhygienic packing process.

[PINJOHN]

have to agree with Shannon in the main, we are nearly all prepared to give not to much thought to some of the practices that occur on our own doorstep especially if we use the victims of the questionable practices, where i disagree is using rattle snake round ups as a comparison, there is nothing that can be put forward to justify the UNNECESSARY barbaric treatment of these snakes,the bottom line with farmed animals is their role in feeding the world,we may argue that the animals should be raised and dispatched in a much more appropriate manner, but using these animals for food can still be justified, this can not be said for rattle snake round ups , if the round ups stopped tomorrow would there be world famine or even local famine NO just a small group of people out of pocket, a substantial pressure lifted of a snake who is struggling for lots of other reasons anyway,and one less way for mankind to demonstrate its almost bottomless capacity for mindless cruelty, and that's not to mention a halt to the ludicrous misinformation given out at these monstrous occasions.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

have to agree with Shannon in the main, we are nearly all prepared to give not to much thought to some of the practices that occur on our own doorstep especially if we use the victims of the questionable practices, where i disagree is using rattle snake round ups as a comparison, there is nothing that can be put forward to justify the UNNECESSARY barbaric treatment of these snakes,the bottom line with farmed animals is their role in feeding the world,we may argue that the animals should be raised and dispatched in a much more appropriate manner, but using these animals for food can still be justified, this can not be said for rattle snake round ups , if the round ups stopped tomorrow would there be world famine or even local famine NO just a small group of people out of pocket, a substantial pressure lifted of a snake who is struggling for lots of other reasons anyway,and one less way for mankind to demonstrate its almost bottomless capacity for mindless cruelty, and that's not to mention a halt to the ludicrous misinformation given out at these monstrous occasions.

I DEFINITELY agree with you here and I think maybe what I said made it seem as though I compare the food industry to rattlesnake roundups. That is not at all true... rattlesnake roundups are NEEDLESS killing without any purpose other than "fun". There is NO excuse for such a barbaric act in modern times... none, and I in no way meant to imply that we should lump them together with animals slaughtered for food. merely was commenting on how we are so quick to jump when the cruelty involves herps but give little to no thought about the fates of MANY other species that are killed by the millions on a daily basis. No matter why they are killed, they are still treated and killed entirely inhumanely (not to mention the extremely unsanitary, deplorable conditions they are in before and after slaughter) and without any respect for the animal, whether it be a rattlesnake at a roundup or a pig on the kill floor. Nothing upsets me more than the needless killing that goes on at places such as rattlesnake roundups... or... have you ever been fishing and stumbled upon a "graveyard" of sunfish? A lot of people will catch a ton of sunfish and bluegill and kill them, smack them off rocks... just because, and leave the pile to lay and rot. Any time I have to take an animal's life I give thought to make sure I kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible, whether I am utilizing it as a feeder, eating it myself, or euthanizing it because it is suffering. I absolutely HATE breaking a trout's neck but it's much kinder than stringing it up on a ******** or waiting for it to suffocate in a bag.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

that's weird... why is the word s t r i n g e r censored? let me try it again... ********.

[guidofatherof5]

that's weird... why is the word s t r i n g e r censored? let me try it again... ********.

Maybe it was your tone of voice when you typed it:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

hahahaha.... that MUST be it!

[PINJOHN]

cant find a single word to disagree with Shannon we are in complete accord on this,
haven't come across any recent reports since you took on your gravid disposition [so to speak]:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

man i love frog legs...but my snakes, theyre vegaterians...thank god for that right?

[BUSHSNAKE]

do you ask your butcher how he killed the cow or do you just buy it, take it home...and eat it...im really wondering

[dieselbaby]

I for one refuse to buy meat or processed foods at the grocery store. I raise my own beef, chicken, and pork. Friends and i share my farm raised meats for their wildgame meat, and they are responsible hunters. I have been hunting on many occasions with them. I even raise pheasants and partridge here on the farm. I go fishing on a regular basis, and grow a moderate garden outdoors in the summer, and container garden in my sunporch in the winter. I get milk from my cow, make my own butter, and cheese, and my chickens give me eggs. I feed them grain and hay grown on other local farms so i know exactly what i am eating, what it ate before slaughter and when i bring an animal in to be slaughtered at out local plant, i stay and watch to make sure it didnt suffer. They are excellent at our local plant, very good with the animals they are paid to kill and process. I try and buy as much as i can from local farmers/producers where i can visit the farm and see how they grow their crops, treat their animals etc. On occasion i do run out of home grown stuff and have to buy things like lettuce from the grocery store, but if at all possible i deal local.. Even my baking flour is grown and milled locally. oh and canola oil omg dont even get me started on that horrid stuff.. (not an animal but its extremely i mean EXTREMELY bad for us) I know not everyone can grow all their own food, but they sure can buy from farmers in their area, might be a little less convenient then the supermarket but at least you know what you are eating, and its not pumped full of disease, drugs, hormones, and adrenaline from a horrible death. Our animals are treated like family while they are with us, they are our pets. We feed and love them, until its time for them to feed us, but they are respected even as we put their flesh in the freezer. We think of them, and remember them. It is indeed horrible what mammals, reptiles, marsupials, and birds suffer at the hands on mankind. just my two cents worth....

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

cant find a single word to disagree with Shannon we are in complete accord on this,
haven't come across any recent reports since you took on your gravid disposition [so to speak]:D

my gravid disposition won't last much longer now... Heck soon I will be going into pre-lay shed and in two months I will be ready to lay my clutch! :D

[d_virginiana]

This is a bit random, but does anyone know if frog legs that you see at the supermarket are from wild-caught frogs? The only reason I ask is because tadpoles are really hard to keep alive and get to that size if they don't have decent conditions, which seems like it would cost a lot. Especially with frog/reptile products (like turtle which is illegal here, but not lots of other places) there seems to be a lot of wild-harvesting. I mean.. I routinely hold living fish upside down by their tails out of water for minutes at a time to feed my snake, and I also eat meat, so I'm really in no position to criticize anyone else who buys factory produced meat :p The one thing I do try to avoid is products harvested from the wild. A little illogical since the things I do buy probably hurt wild populations wayyyy more than what I don't buy helps them, but I'm not really in a position to do otherwise at the moment...

Haha... I literally lol'd at that last comment.

[kibakiba]

Diesel, if you make good, flavourful mozzarella... I'd buy some from you! :p
Stores only carry the gross, rubbery and flavourless kind... Yuck!

[ConcinusMan]

do you ask your butcher how he killed the cow or do you just buy it, take it home...and eat it...im really wondering

lmao :D


Maybe it was your tone of voice when you typed it:D

Don't type to me in that tone of voice! hahaha!

[dieselbaby]

Diesel, if you make good, flavourful mozzarella... I'd buy some from you! :p
Stores only carry the gross, rubbery and flavourless kind... Yuck!

sorry, i make gouda cheese curds mainly, we use them to make poutine, if you dont know what that is lol its french fries smothered in cheese curds and brown gravy.. its soooooo good. I never tried to make mozzarella.

i think we all got a lil off topic. but its nice to see so many people conscientious about critter welfare. I knew this was a good place..

on another note i feel sooo bad when i cut up those earthworms.. cant wait until the babies can eat them whole, which lexi has started doing but poor indy his little head is just too small yet but he sure tries.

[ConcinusMan]

This is a bit random, but does anyone know if frog legs that you see at the supermarket are from wild-caught frogs?

Most are farmed in outdoor pens in South America. And I don't know what methods you're using but everytime I've kept bullfrog tadpoles, even starting them from eggs, they have always thrived.:cool:

[infernalis]

Most are farmed in outdoor pens in South America. And I don't know what methods you're using but everytime I've kept bullfrog tadpoles, even starting them from eggs, they have always thrived.:cool:

The "farm" consists of fencing in a wetland.. They are "harvested"


The worldwide trade in frog legs is massive, and is undoubtedly a significant contributor to the decline and extinction of amphibian populations worldwide. For example, Europeans alone consumed roughly 120 million frogs per year in the 1990's. The Californian gold-miners nearly ate the California red-legged frog (Rana draytonii) to extinction in the 19th century, and the species has never fully recovered.The frog legs trade is problematic whether the frogs are wild-caught or farm-raised. Specifically, the harvest of wild frogs leads to depletion of wild populations, and trade in farm-raised frogs leads to the spread of harmful infectious diseases and invasive species.


Kind of like the savannah monitor "farms" they scoop up gravid wild animals and throw them all into a fenced in pen, after they lay the eggs, the skins are used for leather and the eggs are sold into the pet trade.

[nitrogen15]

Back to frog legs :-P I'm also always looking for new food sources for my garter, and currently use guppies, earthworms, supplemented fish fillets and PK mice. Nutritionally, frog legs are a great idea because it's pretty close to the garter's natural diet. My biggest moral concerns with frog legs would be whether the species are in some kind of peril (probably not, but worth checking), and whether they're wild-caught or farmed. That aside, I'd be concerned about contaminants and parasites. A continuous two-week freeze will kill most parasites. I freeze all my feeder fish and fillets for two weeks, even if they're from a local source. It's hard to know about contaminants, especially from countries that don't have strict food standards, so that's up to you to decide.

[ConcinusMan]

The "farm" consists of fencing in a wetland.. They are "harvested"

Exactly. No different than farming anything else. They aren't native to South America and so were planted there to be harvested.

[d_virginiana]

Exactly. No different than farming anything else. They aren't native to South America and so were planted there to be harvested.

Yeah, that's my main problem with it. Like I said before, I know it's a bit hypocritical since the products I do consume cause just as much if not more harm to the environment, but I can only pick certain things to protest, especially on a student budget (heck, I'd be vegetarian if I weren't allergic to milk, eggs, and soy :p ). I think what bothers me about it is that oftentimes those aren't well-defined 'farms'. More like an area of natural wetland purposely seeded with invasive species. That's just one of my personal pet-peeves because I've spent the last four years researching the effects of invasive species that are brought in and 'farmed' like that.

All the bullfrog tads I've raised have thrived as well. What I was saying is that they seem like a species that would be cheaper to set loose and then harvest than actually invest the money to GROW to marketable size, which is why they 'farm' them that way.

[kimbosaur]

Found a pretty informative site:

The Problem With Frog Legs
(http://savethefrogs.com/actions/frog-legs/index.html)
Site includes some scholarly articles as well as some external links.

To sum up:
It seems like the biggest concerns are with extinction. According to the site, frogs imported from Indonesia are likely wild-caught. It doesn't provide information about frogs from Vietnam though. Other concerns are more environmental. Specifically, bull-frogs seem to be imported live and can escape their enclosures becoming an invasive species that can potentially threaten native ones. Finally, there is concern with infectious diseases. Again, with the bull frogs, they are "known carriers of the amphibian chytrid fungus (Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis (http://savethefrogs.com/chytrid/index.html)) and thus are likely to be primary contributors to the global spread of chytridiomycosis (http://savethefrogs.com/chytrid/index.html), a disease that has decimated amphibian populations worldwide."


Although the site is informative, it doesn't really help me with deciding whether or not to feed the frog legs that I have already purchased since they talk mainly of American bull-frogs. I did a search on the asian food frogs and found this study:

Pathological Study of Blood Parasites in Rice Field Frogs, Hoplobatrachus rugulosus (Wiegmann, 1834)
(http://www.hindawi.com/journals/vmi/2011/850568/)
Study concluded that "[o]f naturally infected frogs, 70% (98/140) were positive for blood parasites." So, parasites could be a concern. SO, I can either freeze them for a prolonged period of time and risk having some specimens survive, OR I can feed them cooked (I'm thinking boiled?). What do you guys think? And finally, the final concern which I could not find information on is possible toxins.

I am still on the fence of whether or not to feed them, but am hoping I can because I am not one to waste food and I don't know if I'm brave enough to try these for dinner! Lol!

[d_virginiana]

Study concluded that "[o]f naturally infected frogs, 70% (98/140) were positive for blood parasites." So, parasites could be a concern. SO, I can either freeze them for a prolonged period of time and risk having some specimens survive, OR I can feed them cooked (I'm thinking boiled?). What do you guys think? And finally, the final concern which I could not find information on is possible toxins.

I am still on the fence of whether or not to feed them, but am hoping I can because I am not one to waste food and I don't know if I'm brave enough to try these for dinner! Lol!

Personally I wouldn't risk it, but I'm really paranoid about that sort of thing. Also, unless you're sure it's bullfrog, I would worry about the type of frog meat being potentially toxic. Almost all amphibians produce toxins, but they are often very minor and won't even effect local animals, but it can be enough to make a foreign species sick. I ran into that when I gave my snake a pinkie that my pacman had refused.

I also wouldn't risk frog legs for dinner for myself, because well.... They're frog legs :D

[nitrogen15]

I am still on the fence of whether or not to feed them, but am hoping I can because I am not one to waste food and I don't know if I'm brave
enough to try these for dinner! Lol!
If they were from a US farm I'd use them regularly, because I'd know they were bullfrogs and I'd know more about the farming practices. Since you already have these, you might as well use them IMO. As with all raw foods, I'd still do two weeks in the freezer. Cooking reduces the nutrition for the snake, so I wouldn't recommend it.


I also wouldn't risk frog legs for dinner for myself, because well.... They're frog legs
Frog legs are tasty. Don't hate.

[d_virginiana]

Frog legs are tasty. Don't hate.

Let's agree to disagree on that point :)

[infernalis]

.................................................. ..................


This post right here.

I'd rather support eating panda legs, than frog legs. At least the panda population is on the increase.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, that's my main problem with it. Like I said before, I know it's a bit hypocritical since the products I do consume cause just as much if not more harm to the environment, but I can only pick certain things to protest, especially on a student budget (heck, I'd be vegetarian if I weren't allergic to milk, eggs, and soy :p ). I think what bothers me about it is that oftentimes those aren't well-defined 'farms'. More like an area of natural wetland purposely seeded with invasive species. That's just one of my personal pet-peeves because I've spent the last four years researching the effects of invasive species that are brought in and 'farmed' like that.

All the bullfrog tads I've raised have thrived as well. What I was saying is that they seem like a species that would be cheaper to set loose and then harvest than actually invest the money to GROW to marketable size, which is why they 'farm' them that way.


I see. Yeah, "transplanted" bullfrogs have done much damage in the western U.S.
Virtually every wetland I visit in the pacific northwest while looking for concinnus' are infested with bullfrogs. While the snakes do thrive by eating them, the bullfrogs displace and prey on native frogs and turtles. Bullfrogs alone have nearly wiped out the native red-legged frog. I rarely find those anymore. They also prey on baby western pond turtles which are also in trouble.

And, I have to say, bullfrog legs really aren't that tasty. I don't dislike them but they surely don't thrill me. They really don't taste all that great to me. Still, once in a while I find them dirt cheap and buy them for my snakes. They love 'em.

[infernalis]

Richard.... Miners during the gold rush did unbelievable damage to the red leg frog populations, by eating lots of (red) frog legs.

I'm not dispelling that bullfrogs played a role, but they had help from humans.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm sure they did. Many years ago I used to find fairly dense populations of red legged frogs in certain spots around the northwest. Those spots all had two things in common. Low water pollution, and no bullfrogs. Some of those spots are now infested with bullfrogs and you guessed it, no more red legs around. When the bullfrogs move in, the red legs disappear. Doesn't seem like it has had an effect on the snake population though.

There are other factors though. Red legs are sensitive to pollution, low oxygen, and high water temperatures while bullfrogs can thrive in such conditions. Who knows, the presence of bullfrogs when a wetland is in decline, just might have saved the snakes from disappearing too.