I found an Albino Garden Snake

[WarriorPrincess]

I Live in the Portland area
Can anyone tell me what kind of Garden snake this is?
and Is it dangerous to let my GodSon have as a pet
I went and got a home with some baby crickets for it to eat
but don't know much about snakes just it was the most
different garden snake I've seen in Portland in over 40 years
313731383139

[kimbosaur]

I think this thread got delayed...

[guidofatherof5]

Welcome to the forum.
Not a garden snake------"Garter Snake" Common mistake.
No crickets or bugs of any kind.
Here's a link to the care sheet.
Garter Snake Care Sheet - Caresheets (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet)
Not sure of the ID on your snake.
Maybe T.sirtalis(common garter snake) but that's just a guess.
Don't think it's T.ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake) or T.elegans (Western Terrestrial Garter Snake)
but I'm just not sure. People with more experience with the snakes of that area will have to post.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

[katach]

Welcome to the forum family! Garter snakes are very good pets. They are interactive and wonderful company.
That face looks NW to me. If it is, you have a very rare find there. Is it possible to get some more, very clear, pictures of the face and body. You have 4 species of garters in your state. There are subspecies as well so you have several possibilities.

Santa Cruz Garter(Thamnophis atratus):
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/images/ranges/atratus-range.jpg
Western Terrestrial(Thamnophis elegans):
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/images/ranges/elegans-range.jpg
Northwestern(Thamnophis ordinoides):
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/images/ranges/ordinoides-range.jpg
Common(Thamnophis sirtalis):
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/images/ranges/sirtalis-range.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

The head looked a little to big to be a Northwestern but you live with them, so. ;)

[katach]

The photos are a little too blurry to be sure. I could just be projecting :D

I got the maps from this site:
Amphibians and Reptiles of Oregon (http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/checklist.html)

[ssssnakeluvr]

it's a little too blurry to tell what species of garter snake

[guidofatherof5]

The photos are a little too blurry to be sure. I could just be projecting :D

I got the maps from this site:
Amphibians and Reptiles of Oregon (http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~titus/herp/checklist.html)

Thanks for posting the site with those maps.

[katach]

No problem ;)

[kibakiba]

If it was a NW, that's be a pretty rare snake. But, like Steve said, the head is a bit too big to be one. Their bodies are normally a little bigger than their heads. Mama's name isn't pinhead for nothing... ;)

[katach]

I would love to see some clear shots.

[d_virginiana]

That's pretty cool regardless of what species it ends up being. You're lucky to have found an albino in the wild!

[katach]

Definitely!

[ConcinusMan]

OMG another one? That's the second one found this year. One near Sherwood, OR and now this one. Based on where you found it, and the dorsal stripe, there's only one snake that it can be. The most common reptile in your area: Northwestern Garter Snake (Thamnophis ordinoides). Albinos of this species have been found before (as I mentioned) but they are extremely rare. Two in one year is just phenomenal. Previously, one pops up about every 25 years in Oregon.

If it was the other garter snake found in the Portland area (oregon red spotted garter snake- thamnophis concinnus) it would have red or orange on it's sides even as an albino.

I sure hope it gets proper care. Baby northwesterns can be touchy if not properly cared for. Would be a shame if it didn't make it. Whatever you do, keep it away from bright light/UV lights/Sunlight. I would like to see this snake get into the hands of an experienced garter breeder so it can survive to adulthood and pass the albino gene on to captive breeding projects. Unfortunately, I just moved from the Portland area to southern California and so I'm helpless to do anything about that.:mad:

[BUSHSNAKE]

i 2nd that...ordinoides for sure

[ConcinusMan]

And I had to go and move right before it was found. Damn. I want to create erythristic albino northwesterns! grrr...

[ConcinusMan]

The head looked a little to big to be a Northwestern but you live with them, so. ;)

As babies, the head is bigger in relation to the body. They "catch up to" their head later.;) It looks to be a newborn from a late season birth.

[BUSHSNAKE]

An albino bloodline would be cool since ordinoides are such awesome species but the offspring are a nightmare

[ConcinusMan]

Says you. But they do require a little bit different care and experience with them helps. If you approach their care as any other hardy garter snake you'll likely fail. I have doubts this one will survive. Even if it got into the hands of someone with experience raising baby northwesterns, the odds are still not in favor if it making it to breeding age. For someone new to keeping any snakes at all, it's chances are slim to none.

[BUSHSNAKE]

They are...i think you have to live in their natural range or something...out of almost two whole litters i think ive got 3 to do well.

[ConcinusMan]

I think the problem is you, not location.:p

[BUSHSNAKE]

could be Richard...

[BUSHSNAKE]

hey Richard, Shannon gave me the single yellow stripe that she got form you, is that a Clark County critter?

[ConcinusMan]

I can say one thing. Baby northwesterns won't fare well, if at all, unless you start them out on dirty little earthworms dug from the ground by hand. Very small meals, daily. Not fully stuffed twice a week. They also won't do well without cool nights.

EDIT: I guess it kind of does come down to their native range. It isn't a problem to provide those conditions/food in almost any month of the year if you live within their range.:rolleyes:

[BUSHSNAKE]

ive tried it all...answer my question!

[ConcinusMan]

Oops. EDIT: I'm not sure if I recall which snake you're talking about.

[BUSHSNAKE]

shes dark w a single yellow stripe like an atratus...

[ConcinusMan]

I edited. I think the only Northwesterns I sent out from Clark County are the ones Steve has. (rescued from the bulldozer) The rest are from the east Portland area or extreme NW Oregon.

[BUSHSNAKE]

ok...do u know were the one u sent shannon is from(county?)

[ConcinusMan]

Clark county is SW Washington. Just north of Portland, OR. Shannon's are all from Multnomah County, OR. At any rate, all northwesterns I sent out are all from within the same 25 square miles, approx.

[BUSHSNAKE]

wheres mine from? Multolath county?...the adults do ok for me:)

[ConcinusMan]

Like I said, Steve's are clark co wa. The rest from Multnomah co Oregon. I know the adults I sent out do well. But you also have to figure that I get a lot of them that flat refuse to eat and settle down. The adults I sent out already proved to be doing well in captivity before I sent them out. I am often forced to release many of them.

[BUSHSNAKE]

ok thanks

[katach]

I had pretty good luck with my baby NWs. Shoot any questions you have my way, I'll help if I can.

[mustang]

:eek:!!!!!!THAT SNAKE IS AMAZING!!!!!!!:eek:
nice snake :D

[RedSidedSPR]

That's gotta be a NW, cause it ain't sirtalis.... And from what i've read that's a pretty awesome, rare find! I know someone here will be pretty exited and possibly pissed.:p

EDIT: Whooooops didn't see the other 3 pages.:rolleyes: Guess what i said was pretty pretty obvious now!

[ConcinusMan]

Well there are only 3 previous albinos of this species found that are documented and for sure confirmed. And that's over a period of about 25 years. Then one was found in Sherwood last spring, (long gone and we'll never see or hear about it again) and now this one. A second chance to produce hets. The thing is, the gene for albino is not in the captive hobby. I would like to see that change but it seems that every time someone finds one, they either sell it and it's never seen again, or it's someone who has 0 experience with keeping snakes. I'd like to see this one live and breed in captivity but alas, I have no control over it. So it's like dangling a carrot in front of me that I can never reach, if you know what I mean. This is obviously a baby and probably won't live to breed unless someone with experience raises it up and breeds it. It's frustrating. Can you imagine if flicker (that erythristic I borrowed a while back from a lady in Portland) was albino too? And we already know that melanistics are common in British Columbia so making snows would be possible too. But an erythristic albino would be the ultimate.

[infernalis]

I have sent an email to her asking for an update.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh so that's why it said you were "emailing" a few minutes ago. OK great. I also sent the pics and report of where it was found, to Dr. Robert Mason so maybe it can go on record.

[d_virginiana]

I would kill to find an aberrant morph like that in the wild. I mean, clearly no chance of NWs in the South, but it would be really exciting :D
I really wish whoever the original poster was would post back so we could at least get an update and know she read the caresheets and everything...

[EasternGirl]

Has anyone heard from this person who originally posted?

[katach]

I tried PMing her, but haven't heard back. I wish she would come back. I know her post got delayed a long time though. She may have gotten discouraged.

[RedSidedSPR]

She posted in other threads and didn't get noticed either. Probably just gave up.=/

[snakehill]

I know that feeling!! :rolleyes:

[ConcinusMan]

If people would just bother to read the registering information they would know about the delay for the first post. This happens a lot. They don't read it. If you look back a few posts you will see that Wayne sent this person an email to see if they will come back.

I sure hope the snake is getting proper care. It doesn't take much to kill a baby northwestern. Furthermore the enclosure looked too damp and they get blisters in a matter of days.

[infernalis]

If people would just bother to read the registering information they would know about the delay for the first post. This happens a lot. They don't read it. If you look back a few posts you will see that Wayne sent this person an email to see if they will come back.

I sure hope the snake is getting proper care. It doesn't take much to kill a baby northwestern. Furthermore the enclosure looked too damp and they get blisters in a matter of days.

That snake is either already dead or released.

re-read the original post closely.

[ConcinusMan]

Well sh%$!!!. Why is it these are only found by people that don't know what they have or how to care for it. That's the second one this year that slipped away.:mad:

I'm beginning to think that these two were found this year just to torture me. Kind of reminds me of a few years ago when my friend found a brand new top of the line alienware laptop at a bus stop. The battery was dead so he thought it was broken. So what did he do? He threw it around and destroyed it. If he only knew what he had...

Still, I'd like to know exactly where the snake was found. Obviously if that population produced an albino, there's probably a lot of hets there. Might be worthwhile to gather up gravid females in the spring and see if an albino pops out.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...this makes me very upset too. I guess she tried...but if Wayne tried to contact her and she didn't respond...that is totally on her and the snake suffered as a consequence. Makes me very upset...

[Chondro788]

I was given her e-mail address on 10/14 and sent an e-mail trying to buy the animal. I never got a response back, so I am guessing she had decided to keep it. I hope it survived for the snakes sake, but it doesn't sound good from the original post.

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...it doesn't sound good...

[kibakiba]

I believe the care for all garters is the same, albinos just need to stay away from a lot of uv exposure.

[katach]

I offered to take it too. I sent her a PM and told her if she ever had any questions to call me or if she didn't feel she could care for it would happily give it a home.

[BUSHSNAKE]

keep trying Kat, she may listen to you...help the snake!

[katach]

Maybe a mod would be willing to give me her e-mail address? I really want to at least be there for questions if it's not too late. I would love to take the little one in, if need be too. She's not that far away from me.

[infernalis]

Kat - send me a pm of what you would like to say, I will forward it.

[katach]

I think it's easy to say that someone wasn't or isn't doing something right, but remember she came here for advise. I don't know why her post got delayed, but she came here and that's a step in the learning direction. All of us started somewhere and had people to help and encourage us. We need to get back to doing that for this person. Thanks!

[ConcinusMan]

All first posts get delayed so they can be reviewed by moderators. That's why this forum isn't riddled with spam like many others are. A minor inconvenience for new members, a major improvement in forum experience for real members.

[ConcinusMan]

Well it's not "all the same" Chantel, in my opinion. That may well be true if all the garters you have are from the same state/climate/range (then if one thrives, they all thrive) but not all garters are created equal, that's for sure. What's good for a checkered and/or radix isn't necessarily good for a northwestern/concinnus/pickeringi. Species/subspecies all have their own tolerances to diet/temperature/brumation/breeding, etc. They are definitely not all the same. We can congratulate you however, on your thriving collection of northwesterns. They are one of the more difficult ones to keep.;)

[EasternGirl]

Well...we may be getting a little off topic here...but staying on the same topic just the same...because since I have a new checkered albino on the way, I need to know what is different about caring for him than caring for my easterns...

And you make a good point Kat...she came here looking for help...we all just want to help her and help the snake. Keep trying to get a hold of her and offer to take the snake for her...I think that is a wonderful thing to do! :)

[ConcinusMan]

In my experience, albinos don't like bright light. They tend to be active right after dark or at twilight. Also, exposure to UV from the sun or light bulbs can cause blindness, cancer, sunburn, etc. Other than that, they're pretty much like a normal snake.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...this is very important info to know then..glad I asked. So does that mean that I should not be using basking bulbs, light bulbs of any kind with the new snake? What kind of day and night heat lamps should I use for him?

[kibakiba]

I didn't mean everything is exactly the same, but basic care is the same, they eat the same food, setups can be the same, humidity shouldn't be a problem. My NWs and concinnus get along fine with care being the same.

[d_virginiana]

I've always wondered... With albino snakes, does the bright light bother their eyes or their skin? Or both? I know albino frogs can get 'burned' by UV lamps, but idk about snakes since their skin is so much thicker than amphibians'.

[chris-uk]

Our albino checkered doesn't seem too bothered by normal room lighting (she comes out at any time, even on the rare occasions we have bright sunlight shining down the hall) , but she's in a viv with a heatmat rather than a lamp. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like being in the T. cuitzeoensis viv where they have a 50W daylight lamp on during the day as well as their heatmat. For albinos I think heatmat is definitely the way to go, it just completely removes the UV and bright light issue.

Just a note on about the OP. I think if she has come back to the forum recently she may well have been scared off by some of the recent posts in this thread, especially if she stopped back to report that it's died or released. I'd read some of them as being quite critical, and give the impression that there's a bunch of people that would want to take her son's snake away, assuming its probably dead because someone inexperienced found it... I know that's not the case, everyone would be just as happy to give her the advice she needs to look after it.

[PINJOHN]

I've always wondered... With albino snakes, does the bright light bother their eyes or their skin? Or both? I know albino frogs can get 'burned' by UV lamps, but idk about snakes since their skin is so much thicker than amphibians'.


an albino garter named Jock
thought protecting his skin was a crock
but being so vain
was to bring him much pain
going out, and not using,sunblock

[infernalis]

Just a note on about the OP. I think if she has come back to the forum recently she may well have been scared off by some of the recent posts in this thread, especially if she stopped back to report that it's died or released. I'd read some of them as being quite critical, and give the impression that there's a bunch of people that would want to take her son's snake away, assuming its probably dead because someone inexperienced found it... I know that's not the case, everyone would be just as happy to give her the advice she needs to look after it.

I saw that too. and I am just a little dissapointed in the entire situation.

[Chondro788]

Our albino checkered doesn't seem too bothered by normal room lighting (she comes out at any time, even on the rare occasions we have bright sunlight shining down the hall) , but she's in a viv with a heatmat rather than a lamp. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like being in the T. cuitzeoensis viv where they have a 50W daylight lamp on during the day as well as their heatmat. For albinos I think heatmat is definitely the way to go, it just completely removes the UV and bright light issue.

Just a note on about the OP. I think if she has come back to the forum recently she may well have been scared off by some of the recent posts in this thread, especially if she stopped back to report that it's died or released. I'd read some of them as being quite critical, and give the impression that there's a bunch of people that would want to take her son's snake away, assuming its probably dead because someone inexperienced found it... I know that's not the case, everyone would be just as happy to give her the advice she needs to look after it.

I was in no way "trying to take her son's snake away", lol! If an albino is found, it is best that it ends up in the hands of someone who can care for it properly, and hopefully breed it out to make more albinos available for the hobby. Its not about money, its not about credit, its about having more beautiful animals in our hobby, and to attract more people to our hobby who love the unusual colors that abberant animals like this one offer. If this person is so concerned about having a snake for their son, maybe they should start with a snake a little less demanding than a W/C NWern.

[infernalis]

I was in no way "trying to take her son's snake away", lol! If an albino is found, it is best that it ends up in the hands of someone who can care for it properly, and hopefully breed it out to make more albinos available for the hobby. Its not about money, its not about credit, its about having more beautiful animals in our hobby, and to attract more people to our hobby who love the unusual colors that abberant animals like this one offer. If this person is so concerned about having a snake for their son, maybe they should start with a snake a little less demanding than a W/C NWern.

I understand what you are saying, but I also understand that when a brand new poster shows up on the boards looking for help, folks need to tread lightly at first.

Nothing drives away a new member faster than criticism and lusting after their new find.

What makes Thamnophis so different in the hobby of keeping snakes is that virtually all new members (from the North American Continent anyways) have found a snake on the ground and are seeking information on how to care for it.

It's a lot different than when someone makes the (uninformed/spur of the moment) decision to buy an unsuitable animal at pet shop or reptile show, those people deserve criticism.

My first recommendation to anyone who simply finds a healthy garter snake going on about it's daily life is to just leave it alone and let it be on it's way.

[chris-uk]

I was in no way "trying to take her son's snake away", lol! If an albino is found, it is best that it ends up in the hands of someone who can care for it properly, and hopefully breed it out to make more albinos available for the hobby. Its not about money, its not about credit, its about having more beautiful animals in our hobby, and to attract more people to our hobby who love the unusual colors that abberant animals like this one offer. If this person is so concerned about having a snake for their son, maybe they should start with a snake a little less demanding than a W/C NWern.

I agree with all the principles of what you've said there, and that this particular snake had genetic value to the hobby way beyond the knowledge of someone with limitted or no knowledge.
It wasn't just one comment that I was referring to, but a build up over a number of posts from several different people and an urgency in some of the posts to find out more and contact the OP, that gave me the impression that if I was the original poster I'd be reading and thinking "What's this hornets nest I just stepped into.". I think if anyone puts themselves in the shoes of someone who stopped by the forum for some casual advice, and reads back through the thread, they'd be able to see why the OP may have stopped by again and decided not to post again. I just wanted to make the observation.

[infernalis]

I agree with all the principles of what you've said there, and that this particular snake had genetic value to the hobby way beyond the knowledge of someone with limitted or no knowledge.
It wasn't just one comment that I was referring to, but a build up over a number of posts from several different people and an urgency in some of the posts to find out more and contact the OP, that gave me the impression that if I was the original poster I'd be reading and thinking "What's this hornets nest I just stepped into.". I think if anyone puts themselves in the shoes of someone who stopped by the forum for some casual advice, and reads back through the thread, they'd be able to see why the OP may have stopped by again and decided not to post again. I just wanted to make the observation.


Very well said. ;)

[EasternGirl]

Our albino checkered doesn't seem too bothered by normal room lighting (she comes out at any time, even on the rare occasions we have bright sunlight shining down the hall) , but she's in a viv with a heatmat rather than a lamp. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't like being in the T. cuitzeoensis viv where they have a 50W daylight lamp on during the day as well as their heatmat. For albinos I think heatmat is definitely the way to go, it just completely removes the UV and bright light issue.

Just a note on about the OP. I think if she has come back to the forum recently she may well have been scared off by some of the recent posts in this thread, especially if she stopped back to report that it's died or released. I'd read some of them as being quite critical, and give the impression that there's a bunch of people that would want to take her son's snake away, assuming its probably dead because someone inexperienced found it... I know that's not the case, everyone would be just as happy to give her the advice she needs to look after it.

I have to agree...I looked back at some of my posts and could see where they were critical and I feel bad for that. I was just worried about the snake, but that's no excuse for scaring away a new member who is looking for help.

So, I should look into getting a UTH mat for the checkered albino then...I have always been a bit nervous of those....can someone please recommend a safe one...he is a small guy and I have a 10g tank for him to start. Thanks!

[chris-uk]

I have to agree...I looked back at some of my posts and could see where they were critical and I feel bad for that. I was just worried about the snake, but that's no excuse for scaring away a new member who is looking for help.

So, I should look into getting a UTH mat for the checkered albino then...I have always been a bit nervous of those....can someone please recommend a safe one...he is a small guy and I have a 10g tank for him to start. Thanks!

I started a fresh discussion on mats and stats, so that this thread doesn't go off-topic.

[ConcinusMan]

Just a note on about the OP. I think if she has come back to the forum recently she may well have been scared off by some of the recent posts in this thread, especially if she stopped back to report that it's died or released. I'd read some of them as being quite critical

Why do people keep saying that? That is not the case. I don't see anyone being critical or anything here to "scare off" anyone. Only concern for the snake to get proper care. Besides that, if she had come back, whether they posted or not, I would know by looking at their profile. Last login was yesterday. It's anyone's guess why she didn't post anything or let us know how the snake is doing. I don't know, maybe the snake didn't make it and she feels embarassed but that's just speculation.

Well, don't worry about it Worriorprincess, all of us here have had snakes die on us, especially delecate babies. It just happens and it's nothing to blame yourself for, if that is how you are feeling. Please post again. We'd like to hear from you, good news, or bad.

Even if it didn't make it, or if it does or doesn't breed and produce captive offspring, I for one am glad that the find got reported and there's good pics of the snake. That alone has a lot of value.

[ConcinusMan]

Dr. Robert Mason responded to my email reporting the albino. Check out the website link here if aren't familiar with his research: Study Species | Mason Lab (http://masonlab.science.oregonstate.edu/index)

Hi Richard,
Thanks for sending the pictures. It is an interesting animal. I envy your moving to the sunny south. Any chance you describe where the Northwestern den was or give us an alternative contact so that we might visit this spring?
Thanks for writing.
Bob Mason

Robert T. Mason
Professor of Zoology
J.C. Braly Curator of Vertebrates
Chair, Biology Program
3029 Cordley Hall
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331-2914
ph: 541-737-4107
fax: 541-737-0501
masonr@science.oregonstate.edu (masonr@science.oregonstate.edu)

[chris-uk]

Why do people keep saying that? That is not the case. I don't see anyone being critical or anything here to "scare off" anyone. Only concern for the snake to get proper care.....

Clearly reading the posts from a different perspective to me if you can't see how someone may have been discouraged from posting again. I don't doubt that the reaction was motivated by enthusiastic concern for the snake.

Worriorprincess may just have been too busy to post again, or could have found good advice elsewhere. I know if she comes back to ask for more advice she will get it here, and if she doesn't want to post on the forum she always has the option to send a PM to ask someone to ask for advice privately.

[ConcinusMan]

I'd like to know the location where it was found, just for records sake.

[EasternGirl]

Ok...well if she is coming online but not posting...hopefully she is reading these posts...if so, please let us know what is going on...no one is going to judge you or blame you here if something happened to the snake. If any of our posts were construed as critical, they were not intended that way...we are just concerned. We would really like to help if you need help caring for the snake...and many members are very interested to know where the snake was found since it was such a rare find. We hope all is well and want you to know that you are welcome here...

[ConcinusMan]

So, I should look into getting a UTH mat for the checkered albino then...I have always been a bit nervous of those....can someone please recommend a safe one...he is a small guy and I have a 10g tank for him to start. Thanks!

The only thing about UTH is that you have to ensure that the ambient (air) temperature is comfortable. Cold air and UTH are a bad combination IMO. Shouldn't be a problem if the room is warm enough for you to be comfortable.

I wouldn't try it a 10 gallon, but for larger tanks, a combination of UTH and low watt ceramic heat emitter (say, 40 watt) works well. For your tank, instead of UTH you could use a 60 watt overhead ceramic heat emitter instead. Just suggesting more options for you. But while not albinos are bothered by bright light, I would avoid using basking bulbs due to the snakes not having melanin to protect them from "sunburn" Even if a bulb doesn't say it puts out UV, some do put out harmful wavelengths. Harmful if you lack melanin, that is.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...well since he's small and I'm starting him in a 10g, I'm going to start with the UTH. He'll be in my bedroom which usually stays pretty toasty...it never drops below 65 at night.

[ConcinusMan]

Just be sure to set the corners of the tank on something so there's a slight gap between the undertank heater, and the surface its sitting on, so heat can escape. Otherwise it builds up and they can get too hot. You don't want your snake to get burned on the glass if he burrows down into the substrate. Also, don't use more than 2 inches of substrate over the heater, and whatever you do, make sure the water dish is as far away from the heater as possible. Cold water spilling on the hot glass can make it crack.

[EasternGirl]

okay...sounds good...I think the mat I ordered said that it came with something to attach to the bottom of the tank to hoist it up so that heat can escape...little bump pads or something...

Thanks for all the help!

[WarriorPrincess]

Sorry haven't had a chance to update yet I work alot of hours and keep falling asleep over the computer at night. Was trying to upload some videos of snake. Casper is the name but we don't know if it is a boy or girl. Eating good and seems healthy too. Got a heat rock and comforts as I learn more about care. The snake seems smart and likes to pose for the camera. It almost appears to know what I'm doing and has learned a eating routine and also seems to recognize my voice. So far all it will really eat is nightcrawlers that I cut up in bite size pieces since I'm afraid to over feed. It is growing longer but I can't tell if it's width is more since I see it every day but I do know it's outgrowing his home lengthwise. I'm posting a couple videos and one is of it when I first gave it to my Godson and one is of it eating a worm recently. It concerns me that it turned a bit red/pink while eating I wondered if it was normal to happen that way and perhaps the worm was too large but then I saw other peoples snake videos eating a hairless mouse baby (pinky)? and saw how much larger that is then a worm but would still like the input on video of him eating the worm. Anyway all is fine as far as I can tell and I will post more as my time allows. Thank You for your time and concern. Albino Garten Snake In Oregon - YouTube (http://youtu.be/-oMFyOKddEE) IMG 14531 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4HsoYpvABr0) If these links don't work go to youtube HalloweenQueen115 to view. I will post more video soon too. :-) I've read alot of your post and want to assure everyone I was not scared off by any comments just a very busy and tired person juggling a hectic schedule here. Loving thoughts to you all and Thank You :)

[WarriorPrincess]

Sorry haven't had a chance to update yet I work alot of hours and keep falling asleep over the computer at night. Was trying to upload some videos of snake. Casper is the name but we don't know if it is a boy or girl. Eating good and seems healthy too. Got a heat rock and comforts as I learn more about care. The snake seems smart and like to pose for the camera. It almost appears to know what I'm doing and has learned a eating routine and also seems to recognize my voice. So far all it will really eat is nightcrawlers that I cut up in bite size pieces since I'm afraid to over feed. He is growing longer but I can't tell if it's width is more since I see it every day. I do know it's outgrowing his home though. I'm posting a couple videos and one is of it eating a worm. It concerns me that it turned a bit red/pink while eating I wondered if it was normal to happen that way and perhaps the worm was too large but then I saw other (pinky)? and saw how much larger that is then a worm but would still like the input on video of him eating the worm. Anyway all is fine as far as I can tell and I will post more as my time allows. Thank You for your time and concern. Albino Garten Snake In Oregon - YouTube (http://youtu.be/-oMFyOKddEE) and IMG 14531 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4HsoYpvABr0) If these links don't work go to youtube HalloweenQueen115 to view. I will post more video soon too. :-)

[PINJOHN]

Sorry haven't had a chance to update yet I work alot of hours and keep falling asleep over the computer at night.

the only positive thing about falling asleep at your computer, is no fatalities if it crashes :D

[kibakiba]

That's definitely a NW. It looks like a healthy little albino.

As for over feeding, you should probably feed him 3-4 head sized worm chunks every other day, it's really easy to over stuff a baby, and it can be dangerous if done too much. Their muscles aren't fully developed, so they have a harder time swallowing and digesting food. They also have less stomach bacteria than, say, an adult wild caught garter snake. Letting them eat worms that have the soil still in them is a good way of increasing the gut flora.

I'm very glad he's doing so well for you! I hope that he brings your godson a lot of joy for many years! Don't be afraid to ask any questions you may have, we're always willing to help someone in need. And, considering albino northwesterns are quite rare, we're all interested in seeing lots of pictures of him! :D He's one of the first albinos that I've found extremely cute... I'm pretty big on the northwestern garters, though ;)

[katach]

I'm so glad Caper is doing so well. You may want to pick up some supplement powder. I use tetrafauna's reptocal. I dust my babies worm chunks about every 3-4 feedings. It gives them the calcium that they need for healthy bone development as night crawlers aren't a very good source for that. Like Chantel said don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have, we are always willing to help. I have 4 NW myself and one of my females had babies this summer. Chantel's has babies recently too.

[kibakiba]

Also, cut the worms into slightly smaller chunks. That worm in the video is quite big! Just a little tip. :) When the pieces are smaller, they make a cute "chewing" kind of face. Hehe.

[katach]

Yes they do. It is really cute. Fish Bait does that too. :D

[chris-uk]

Sorry haven't had a chance to update yet I work alot of hours and keep falling asleep over the computer at night. Was trying to upload some videos of snake. Casper is the name but we don't know if it is a boy or girl. Eating good and seems healthy too. Got a heat rock and comforts as I learn more about care. The snake seems smart and like to pose for the camera. It almost appears to know what I'm doing and has learned a eating routine and also seems to recognize my voice. So far all it will really eat is nightcrawlers that I cut up in bite size pieces since I'm afraid to over feed. He is growing longer but I can't tell if it's width is more since I see it every day. I do know it's outgrowing his home though.

That all sounds normal and positive. I know everyone will be glad to know that Casper (good name for an albino) is doing well.



I'm posting a couple videos and one is of it eating a worm. It concerns me that it turned a bit red/pink while eating I wondered if it was normal to happen that way and perhaps the worm was too large but then I saw other (pinky)? and saw how much larger that is then a worm but would still like the input on video of him eating the worm.

I'd agree, cut the nightcrawler smaller. Other than the "cute chewing face" if you cut it into smaller pieces you get the pleasure of seeing him finish off one piece and hunt for more, I'd imagine when he'd finished that nightcrawler it was a case of "Strewth, I need to spend the day in bed digesting.".
The pinkness I think is normal for albinos, in the video it looks like the size of the nightcrawler is spreading the scales and pulling the skin tight, so with no pigment in the skin you'll see the colour from the internal organs, blood vessels etc.
If he's happy on nightcrawler and eating well, that's great. Kat's advice about vitamin and calcium supplement is good, and will help keep him healthy until you get him onto pinkies.



Anyway all is fine as far as I can tell and I will post more as my time allows. Thank You for your time and concern. Albino Garten Snake In Oregon - YouTube and IMG 14531 - YouTube If these links don't work go to youtube HalloweenQueen115 to view. I will post more video soon too. :-)
Glad to know that the unbrideled enthusiasm wasn't what delayed your update.

[guidofatherof5]

Great news.
Glad to hear Casper is doing well.

[infernalis]

Sorry haven't had a chance to update yet I work alot of hours and keep falling asleep over the computer at night. Was trying to upload some videos of snake. Casper is the name but we don't know if it is a boy or girl. Eating good and seems healthy too. Got a heat rock and comforts as I learn more about care. The snake seems smart and like to pose for the camera. It almost appears to know what I'm doing and has learned a eating routine and also seems to recognize my voice. So far all it will really eat is nightcrawlers that I cut up in bite size pieces since I'm afraid to over feed. He is growing longer but I can't tell if it's width is more since I see it every day. I do know it's outgrowing his home though. I'm posting a couple videos and one is of it eating a worm. It concerns me that it turned a bit red/pink while eating I wondered if it was normal to happen that way and perhaps the worm was too large but then I saw other (pinky)? and saw how much larger that is then a worm but would still like the input on video of him eating the worm. Anyway all is fine as far as I can tell and I will post more as my time allows. Thank You for your time and concern. Albino Garten Snake In Oregon - YouTube (http://youtu.be/-oMFyOKddEE) and IMG 14531 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4HsoYpvABr0) If these links don't work go to youtube HalloweenQueen115 to view. I will post more video soon too. :-)


Thank you so much for the updates, and am very happy to see Casper doing well in your care.

[d_virginiana]

That's good news!

[RedSidedSPR]

I actually just found and commented on your videos, i had a feeling it was you.:) Read this and am very very glad it is yours, and you are a part of this forum and that he's doing well.

[EasternGirl]

We are all so happy to hear about Casper!!! I am happy that none of our comments scared you away..;). You may want to reconsider the heat rock...they can be dangerous...the snake can burn himself on the rock...there is a link on here that we started that is actually specifically in reference to albino garters discussing using under tank heat mats for heat: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/9639-mats-stats.html?highlight=mats+and+stats

Hope that is helpful... good luck and keep us posted!!

[dieselbaby]

Glad to here the lil rare one is doing well. Keep up the good work! and welcome aboard. We also love to see pics posted:D

[WarriorPrincess]

3356335733583359

[WarriorPrincess]

3360 Casper seriously likes to pose for the camera :)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/garter-snake-lounge/3360d1322259027-i-found-albino-garden-snake-img_1470.jpg

[dieselbaby]

awesome pics of casper and looks like it. My female checkered lexi poses too, makes pic taking so much more fun when they pose and do silly things. :D Thanks for posting the pics. garters are so enjoyable to have as pets.

[katach]

I know this one is still little, but can we get an underside shot of the vent area to possible see what the sex is?

[infernalis]

Casper looks awesome. I made your picture a bit bigger for you.

[katach]

Looks like he likes his food too! :D or did you just feed him? You are doing a great job!

[EasternGirl]

Casper is such a cutie! Keep up the good work!

[RedSidedSPR]

Wow. Awesome snake.

[WarriorPrincess]

UPDATE: I went to feed Casper and found that He/She shed!
I think if I understand right that it's a good and normal thing to happen.
I suppose it is because of growth process?
Also I started feeding the smaller pieces of worm and you were right it is more enjoyable to watch :)
When I took the photo of the skin all of a sudden Casper (the ham) came quickly over to the skin for the photo op
Seriously likes photos taken. Has a very funny personality, very enjoyable:)
Well, I tried to take a photo of the underside and Casper protested so these are the best I could get so far so I don't know if they
are good enough to tell the sex. Part of the skin was still on the tail too that had not come off yet but is off today but after I fed tonight
I didn't want to upset by trying to take photos like that again. I'm off work tomorrow so if Casper allows I will take underbelly photos again now that
the rest of the skin is off the tail.3371337233733374

[BUSHSNAKE]

im guessing that its a female, looking good btw

[WarriorPrincess]

Is it better to be a male or female?

[PINJOHN]

Welcome from a gale force Liverpool

females enjoy the reputation of being the most easygoing, least nervous, most person interactive of the two , the complete opposite of us humans :eek: :D

[katach]

Males are good too. I have a baby NW male. NWs are very sweet by nature so either boy or girl you will have a great little friend there.

[katach]

If Casper had trouble getting the shed off you may want to check your cage humidity or next time you can try a shed box. It's always important to make sure they get the whole shed off. Things to check for are to look at the head part of the shed and make sure you see both eye caps and the tail to make sure the whole tip came off. Some helpful threads are:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8502-shed-box-video.html
(http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8502-shed-box-video.html)http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/8914-after-shed-what-then.html

[EasternGirl]

That's great news that Casper shed! Yes...you will learn to know the signs of when she (?) is going to shed and then you can start misting the enclosure to increase the humidity and help the shedding process so that she can get the shed off in one piece. Before she is going to shed she will become dim and dusty looking and her eyes will cloud over and she will usually want to hide more...and eat less. I usually begin misting the inside of the terrarium several times a day at that point to increase humidity. Just don't soak everything...too much humidity is not good. Many people use a shed box, like Kat suggested.

[chris-uk]

First shed is (or at least the first shed for snake after I get it, because I assume they will have shed before I buy them) - is a milestone :-).
Good advice on the humidity if the shed wasn't complete. As for spotting the shed coming, with our albino we have to rely more on here skin going dull because with the lack of pigment her eyes don't go blue (I think they turn a paler reddy-pink, but it's not easy to spot like it is with normals where the eyes are clearly blue-grey).
If she's growing at the rate our baby checkereds did you can expect another shed in anything from 2-4 weeks.

[katach]

It can be difficulty to see the signs of shedding with albinos though. At this age they shed pretty regularly. My little make NW is at every 4 to 5 weeks. Thus is just a rough idea though. It friends on how much Casper eats and how fast the growing is. NW are a smaller garter as an adult than the others.

[guidofatherof5]

Such good news to read. Casper has shed which indicates growth.
I've only been keeping T.ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake) for a short time but have found both males and females docile and engaging.
Casper is a good looking young female.
How old is your heat rock? Older heat rocks were dangerous and have burned many a snake.
I have heard that the newer ones with newer technology are much better at controlling the heat.
I don't use any heat rocks just to be safe. I use under the tank heat mats or Flex watt heat tape on my larger enclosures.
I have also heard from those that keep Northwesters that heat isn't necessary in more situation. Much of that decision depends on the temp of your home.
As you can also see the heat rock cord gives Casper access to the top of his home.
Garter snakes are escape artist and considering what a rare find she is it might be best to eliminate all possible escape avenues.
You might check into purchasing an aquarium with a sliding/locking lid. A 10 gal. should work for quite a long time.
It looks like she's in a"critter keeper". I remember a forum member posting photos of a snake trapped in one of the lid vents.
I hope Casper continues doing well with you.
Please keep us posted on her progress.

[infernalis]

It was Stefan back in '08 or '09

[EasternGirl]

Yes, Steve...I had posted something earlier about the heat rock as I too was concerned about this.

Heat rocks worry me...I would consider another heat source...if you look back through the thread I posted a link for you to a discussion we were having about heat mats specifically for albinos...you can click on it and read all about them, Warriorprincess.

That is good to know about albinos shedding...that it can be difficult to see the signs...since I have the new albino coming.

[guidofatherof5]

With Stefan's permission here is that photo I was talking about. Critter Keepers can be dangerous.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/rueffinkiddinme.jpg

[snakehill]

Ouch! That has to hurt!! My baby ringneck escaped like that but it was much smaller!!! :eek:

[Stefan-A]

It was trying to escape through a hole like this:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/plugging1.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Oh my Gosh! Please tell me that snake is okay....I put my girls in one of those to feed sometimes.....not anymore!!!! That image is burned in my brain....

[infernalis]

Yes the snake was fine.. I remember the whole conversation well.

[EasternGirl]

Good to hear.

[guidofatherof5]

Oh my Gosh! Please tell me that snake is okay....I put my girls in one of those to feed sometimes.....not anymore!!!! That image is burned in my brain....


Yes the snake was fine.. I remember the whole conversation well.

They are escape artists.

[EasternGirl]

Oh I know...every time I open the enclosure, the next thing I know...Cee Cee is either on top of the desk next to the enclosure or on the book shelf next to it...and Steve, I told you about her near escape at the beach this summer!

[ConcinusMan]

I just got caught up on the updates and watched the video. This is all very good news. So glad the snake appears to be doing well. You know you probably have the only albino northwestern in captivity don't you? Take good care of her. I'm glad you joined the forum, Warriorprincess. All too often we get reports of rare mutations and then we never hear another word. Keep us updated.

I watched the video. Try not to let her eat such big meals and get overstuffed. I've had babies up and die, many times, just from eating too much at once.;) When they get much bigger they handle it better.

[RedSidedSPR]

Me too. I'm very very glad he's in good hands. Very special snake.

[katach]

I sent her a message to see if she would interested in breeding her with Fish Bait when they are old enough. Hope so! :)

[BUSHSNAKE]

communicating over the computer is so unpersonal, the right thing to do is get her on the phone and get to know her a bit...i bet after that youll get that chance

[katach]

I gave her my phone number a few messages back so she could call if she had any questions. She is a busy lady so, she'll get back to me when she can. :)

[BUSHSNAKE]

sweeten her with that sugar...im feeling the possibility of het albino northwesterns:)...do i sound like a crack addict or what?

[katach]

Not at all. I would love be part of this expansion of the breed. They are so wonderful and sweet. I think if they were more "interesting" looking they would be more popular. I love them no matter what they look like though. :)

[infernalis]

Not at all. I would love be part of this expansion of the breed. They are so wonderful and sweet. I think if they were more "interesting" looking they would be more popular. I love them no matter what they look like though. :)

Oh come on now, the red stripe and blue stripes are both incredible looking snakes.

[katach]

Yes they are!! Blade is a great example of a beautiful red stripe. I haven't seen a blue yet though. Do you have any pics of one?

[infernalis]

Yes they are!! Blade is a great example of a beautiful red stripe. I haven't seen a blue yet though. Do you have any pics of one?

somewhere, I just looked through my galleries, no luck yet.

[katach]

I guess I can be patient. :D

[infernalis]

Driving me nuts here, I had two blue ones from 08-09, I know I took pics?

[katach]

Well........ :D

[infernalis]

Found them... in one of my threads right here on Thamnophis...

http://www.dekayi.info/cool/ordinoid1.jpg

http://www.dekayi.info/cool/ordinoid2.jpg

[katach]

Awwww!!!

[EasternGirl]

Okay..so what are we looking at? A blue stripe NW? And Blade is a red stripe NW? Yes....both are gorgeous snakes. And from what I understand they have a wonderful temperament....have added radix and NW to my list.

[WarriorPrincess]

338833893390Casper outgrew the little home so got this today. I guess Casper is a she but for some reason I feel inclined to say he all the time. Anyway she likes her Kleenex box cave the most but did explore the skull cave. I am most amazed so far about how much personality she has. I never knew they could be such an enjoyable pet. Until Casper I always thought of a snake as something like a spider or as a bee or fly or something to be afraid of. Had Casper not been a white snake I would likely have ran when I saw her. But for some reason I just picked her up with no fear and now we've become buddy's. My Godson enjoys her when he comes over but seems to enjoy the XBOX more so Casper has become mine:) I honestly don't believe he would take care of her so I'm keeping her here with me. I really enjoy her and am in awe of how she will look around an item just to see me. Don't know if that makes sense but if you block her view she will move so she can see me. She's got an extra large temper too and gets so mad when I would clean her home or change something in it. She has a little temper fit but then settles in again. It's so funny and interesting to watch. I would be devistated if anything would happen to her but understand what your saying about her being rare so if I can help the breeding line I'm hip and am open to working with anyone. I have never had a snake and am sorry for my ignorance with the whole thing but I do love her and want her to live on through offspring. So teach me what to do and lets all work together. I'm sorry I'm so attached to her I never intended to keep her for myself. It's crazy but I think I got the bug or something. If she ever gets to be too much for me or I feel I'm doing her harm have no fear I will just give her to someone here. I'm doing my best and I believe she is doing well and is happy too. So any input anyone has please be kind for my intentions are of good nature. Thank you for your support and Loving thoughts to you all ;)
3391

[Chondro788]

Looks to me like you are doing everything right!! She seems very healthy, you have done a great job, and once she matures, there are lots of us on here who would be willing to walk you through that process as well. I can't wait to see her as an adult!!! :)

[guidofatherof5]

Casper outgrew the little home so got this today. I guess Casper is a she but for some reason I feel inclined to say he all the time. Anyway she likes her Kleenex box cave the most but did explore the skull cave. I am most amazed so far about how much personality she has. I never knew they could be such an enjoyable pet. Until Casper I always thought of a snake as something like a spider or as a bee or fly or something to be afraid of. Had Casper not been a white snake I would likely have ran when I saw her. But for some reason I just picked her up with no fear and now we've become buddy's. My Godson enjoys her when he comes over but seems to enjoy the XBOX more so Casper has become mine:) I honestly don't believe he would take care of her so I'm keeping her here with me. I really enjoy her and am in awe of how she will look around an item just to see me. Don't know if that makes sense but if you block her view she will move so she can see me. She's got an extra large temper too and gets so mad when I would clean her home or change something in it. She has a little temper fit but then settles in again. It's so funny and interesting to watch. I would be devistated if anything would happen to her but understand what your saying about her being rare so if I can help the breeding line I'm hip and am open to working with anyone. I have never had a snake and am sorry for my ignorance with the whole thing but I do love her and want her to live on through offspring. So teach me what to do and lets all work together. I'm sorry I'm so attached to her I never intended to keep her for myself. It's crazy but I think I got the bug or something. If she ever gets to be too much for me or I feel I'm doing her harm have no fear I will just give her to someone here. I'm doing my best and I believe she is doing well and is happy too. So any input anyone has please be kind for my intentions are of good nature. Thank you for your support and Loving thoughts to you all ;)


Reading this post made smile.
You have a bug for sure. The "Garter Love Bug" Once again they work their magic.
You've described the things that keep us all captivated to these snakes.
They are very engaging and provide us with much joy.
There is so much more for you to experience. I won't be a spoiler.:D

Shedding is a big concern for babies and especially albinos. Make sure Casper does a complete shed every time.
Inspected the shed for 2 eye caps and a complete tail shed.
I'm very glad to hear Casper is doing so well and that you are enjoying your garter snake time.

[EasternGirl]

338833893390Casper outgrew the little home so got this today. I guess Casper is a she but for some reason I feel inclined to say he all the time. Anyway she likes her Kleenex box cave the most but did explore the skull cave. I am most amazed so far about how much personality she has. I never knew they could be such an enjoyable pet. Until Casper I always thought of a snake as something like a spider or as a bee or fly or something to be afraid of. Had Casper not been a white snake I would likely have ran when I saw her. But for some reason I just picked her up with no fear and now we've become buddy's. My Godson enjoys her when he comes over but seems to enjoy the XBOX more so Casper has become mine:) I honestly don't believe he would take care of her so I'm keeping her here with me. I really enjoy her and am in awe of how she will look around an item just to see me. Don't know if that makes sense but if you block her view she will move so she can see me. She's got an extra large temper too and gets so mad when I would clean her home or change something in it. She has a little temper fit but then settles in again. It's so funny and interesting to watch. I would be devistated if anything would happen to her but understand what your saying about her being rare so if I can help the breeding line I'm hip and am open to working with anyone. I have never had a snake and am sorry for my ignorance with the whole thing but I do love her and want her to live on through offspring. So teach me what to do and lets all work together. I'm sorry I'm so attached to her I never intended to keep her for myself. It's crazy but I think I got the bug or something. If she ever gets to be too much for me or I feel I'm doing her harm have no fear I will just give her to someone here. I'm doing my best and I believe she is doing well and is happy too. So any input anyone has please be kind for my intentions are of good nature. Thank you for your support and Loving thoughts to you all ;)
3391 Listening to you here I think it is more than obvious that Casper is in very good hands and very lucky to have you for an owner. Yes, you definitely have the garter snake bug! Never apologize for being attached because that is a good thing! And please don't worry about not knowing what you were doing in the beginning...we all started somewhere...I had no idea what I was doing when I found my first garter snake. Of course you want to keep her for yourself...you have come to love and care for her and you are doing a wonderful job...we are here to help you every step of the way! You have many friends here now!

[infernalis]

Casper outgrew the little home so got this today.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/garter-snake-lounge/3391d1322564138-i-found-albino-garden-snake-img_1604.jpg


Looks great, made me smile to see. Casper is in good hands.

[PINJOHN]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/garter-snake-lounge/3391d1322564138-i-found-albino-garden-snake-img_1604.jpg

Looks great, made me smile to see. Casper is in good hands.

yes it looks like casper and the friendly host ...............really sorry for that folks i just can't let a pun go by :o

[chris-uk]

The photo of Casper coming out of the skull's eye socket reminded me of a scene in Indiana Jones...

Whether you knew anything about garters before you found Casper is irrelevant. I knew almost nothing about garters 3 months ago, I know a bit now, but the important thing is to know what you don't know and when to ask for advice.

We will know you've been properly assimilated when you post up to tell us you have a second garter. And the third. And forth....

[ConcinusMan]

Be careful at feeding time! don't let her swallow substrate.

[EasternGirl]

Oh wow...I didn't even notice her coming out of the eye socket until Chris said that...ha ha! That's great. I love the big pic of the tank too...she looks so adorable in that pic! Yes, be careful not to let her get any of the substrate on her food.

[ConcinusMan]

Here's a blue one I found this year. Wouldn't eat though and was thin and weak. Had to let it go.

3396

[EasternGirl]

Wow...really pretty.

[katach]

I'm so glad you are enjoying Casper so much. Garters are amazing. I would love to volunteer to work with you on the breeding when the time comes. My male is about the same age as your Casper. When they are mature enough we can talk more about it though.

[WarriorPrincess]

3416

[infernalis]

Freaky... Hover over the picture. IMG_1666

[ConcinusMan]

oooh.. spooky

[infernalis]

Fits the "theme" of the picture well.

[katach]

Nice set up you have there.

[WarriorPrincess]

http://youtu.be/VBUVvUODMWo

new video hope this link works

35143515351635173518

[guidofatherof5]

The link worked fine.
Keep up the good work with this wonderful Northwestern (T.ordinoides)

[WarriorPrincess]

Some new photos
351935203521

[infernalis]

Great pics! Thanks for sharing.

Casper is living large.

[EasternGirl]

Love the video! And great pics...I love the one with her sticking out of the skull...she has a beautiful enclosure. She seems very happy and she looks great...keep up the good work! Thanks for the update...always love hearing about Casper and seeing new pics.

[katach]

You are doing a wonderful job with Casper! Thanks for the updates, and keep them coming. :)

[chris-uk]

I'm sure she finished the worm and burped. That's one contented little garter.

[EasternGirl]

My son enjoyed watching the video of Casper eating the worm :).

[RedSidedSPR]

You are doing a wonderful job with Casper!

My thoughts exactly. Very glad he's in good hands.

[dieselbaby]

absolutely love the new pics. So happy lil Casper has a happy home with you.

[ConcinusMan]

Awesome. So glad this is working out and the snake is doing well.

[WarriorPrincess]

First shed was on Thanksgiving and the second on Dec. 13
Every day Casper is eating at least 1/2 of a good size nightcrawler.
I put a 1 of the worm in a bag and shook to cover the worm with Zoo Meds Reptivite with D3 a couple weeks
ago and Casper ate it right up. She still has temper fits when I make any changes to home or when I clean it.
She gets so mad it's literally like a 2 year old laying on the floor of a shopping mall screaming and slaming about. (What a temper)
Then after she calms down she pushes her head against my fingers and wraps herself around my fingers. Seems almost like when a child
snuggles with you after a meltdown. I donno? But that's my take on the event. What do you think? :-) I so new to snake behavior but am loving it!
By the way since she was so upset already I tried to get another photo of her vent to post to see if she is actually a she and Casper was so mad she pooped and peed on me! LOL!!!357435753576

[guidofatherof5]

Great to hear Casper is doing so well.
Eating, shedding and giving gifts to you. Good snake.
From what I can see of the tail I say female.
Any chance you can get a under tail photo by placing Casper on a piece of glass?

[ConcinusMan]

Hard to tell sex from that angle but from the other photos I've seen, it appears that Casper is female. It's too bad the other albino found this year is MIA. That one was a male, and about the same age/size.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah, Richard that would be great, I know I what your thinking.

I say female too. Hard to tell like said, but that's what i thought when i saw it.

[charles parenteau]

What a nice find!!

[EasternGirl]

Glad to hear she shed and is eating well...my snakes often have weird reactions to me making changes to their enclosures...either they hide, mess everything up, or stare at new things for a very long time. It shows they have personality...I think! Casper is a cutie...that's for sure!

[d_virginiana]

Casper is a very lovely little snake. Glad to hear she's doing fine and shedding well :) I know I cringed when I first saw a post about such a rare NW morph around being found by someone who had never owned a garter before, much less raised a baby, but you seem to be doing really great!

My blind one freaks out if anything in his enclosure gets moved around even a little. I have to even take him out and handle him while I change his water or do cleaning (awkward to do one handed...) because he starts running around his cage like mad as soon as he gets to 'water bowl corner' and there isn't a water bowl in it.. My other one just immediately goes and sits on whatever new item I put in there :rolleyes:

[Light of Dae]

Wow, just got myself all caught up, what a beautiful find of a snake you got there. Glad your learning well n Casper is doing good :)

With the skull you may want to plan for when Casper gets a little bigger... Say knock a couple more teeth out lol just so that she'll always fit n never end up stuck between the teeth... Don't think a toothpick would work for that... lol http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/garter-snake-lounge/3519d1323404338-i-found-albino-garden-snake-img_1672.jpg

You could use a rotary tool or a little hand saw... etc. Just something to keep in mind :D

[WarriorPrincess]

3836383738383839
4th shed since found October 24th 2011:)

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like you are doing a good job.
4 sheds means good growth.

[EasternGirl]

Wow! She's getting big! She looks great...thanks for posting some pics for us.

[WarriorPrincess]

3840

[kibakiba]

That looks like she has a really bad mouth infection.

[WarriorPrincess]

Her mouth puckers on both sides a couple days before she sheds then her mouth goes back to looking normal

[infernalis]

Oh my.. I have to agree, that does not look good.

Edit: thanks for explaining.

[WarriorPrincess]

3842

[guidofatherof5]

Definitely looks like somethings going on with the upper lips.
Any chance we can get a photo from the side? Below the head so it shows the under side of the upper lip.
It would be helpful.
You should also check that latest shed to make sure all the Supralabial (upper lip) scales came off.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//756/12342.gif

[WarriorPrincess]

Ok I'll go take some more photos now those were taken about 3 days before she shed. BRB

[katach]

Our NWs pucker a little just before shed too. It could be a NW thing. Hey Chantel, does Mama do that? They go right back to normal after shed also.

[WarriorPrincess]

38433844384538463847Still a girl?

[kibakiba]

She doesn't pucker, none of them do, except Snap. She's not a northwestern, though.

[WarriorPrincess]

Hard to get her to hold still tonight to get the photos but I think she looks ok the one in here hand from underneath has me concerned though. She's very shiny right now since she shed yesterday
3848

[guidofatherof5]

Photo #3 shows a couple minor swollen areas. Could be healing or be a minor active infection.
Sometimes retained supralabials can cause that look.

[WarriorPrincess]

What should I do?

[guidofatherof5]

That's a good question.
To treat or not to treat, that is the question.
I'm not sure what to say. You can treat it with some betadine or other products.
A weak tea water/betadine solution and a q-tip.
Many times these thing will heal on their own.

[agasin]

I don't see any photo of this snake.

[WarriorPrincess]

You guys got me worried about casper What do I do now?

[guidofatherof5]

Don't mean to worry you but you need to be aware there could be a problem.
I don't think this is serious but it is something to keep an eye one.
You have a few choices:
1. Do nothing and monitor the situation.
2. Treat with betadine/hibiclen.
3. Take to a Vet. for evaluation and possible treatment.

At this point this is not a "lose sleep" situation.

Casper is doing well.

[WarriorPrincess]

Thank you Steve :o I don't want to cause Casper any harm.

[katach]

You are doing a great job for Casper. She looks plump and happy.

I'm not an expert with injuries or wounds, so I can't comment too much on that. The underside photo did look different though. If you want, I have a phone number to a great vet here in WA. They answer a lot a of questions over the phone too. Maybe you could email the photo to them and talk to them over the phone. PM me if you want the number. Steve is a fabulous resource for situations like this though.

Keep us posted.

[EasternGirl]

When my snake's lip was doing that on one side last year, I used Hibiclens to treat it. I put a couple of drops of hibiclens in a cup of water and dabbed it on the area a couple of times a day with a Q-tip and it cleared up. I wouldn't think doing this could harm the snake so you could go ahead and give it a try. If you are going to call a vet, which was suggested and perhaps you could get that number from Kat...that would be even better of course. It's always better to overreact than underreact...that's my feeling on questionable issues with snakes...so don't lose sleep...but get it checked to be safe.

[WarriorPrincess]

I'll pick up some hibiclens after work tomorrow. Does anyone know a good source for fresh worms in the Portland Area. I've been buying night crawlers at BiMart but I don't feel they are as fresh as they should be and I don't like Casper eating whatever they are packed in. I don't know what it is but when I cut them up I can see they eat their packing material. Worms from outside are hard to find lately cause of the cold but Casper loves the ones I get from the ground so much more then the fishing bait ones. Is anyone going to the Reptile show in Wilsonville this weekend?
Thank You everyone for the medical advice

[kibakiba]

You cn put the worms in a container with some dirt and bone meal for a week or 2 before feeding them to casper, it makes it a lot more healthy for them.

[WarriorPrincess]

Northwest Reptile Expos | Portland Metro Reptile Expo (http://www.nwreptileexpos.com/portland-metro-reptile-expo/)

I'm going to see what it's all about. Sounds like fun :)

[guidofatherof5]

I'll pick up some hibiclens after work tomorrow. Does anyone know a good source for fresh worms in the Portland Area. I've been buying night crawlers at BiMart but I don't feel they are as fresh as they should be and I don't like Casper eating whatever they are packed in. I don't know what it is but when I cut them up I can see they eat their packing material. Worms from outside are hard to find lately cause of the cold but Casper loves the ones I get from the ground so much more then the fishing bait ones. Is anyone going to the Reptile show in Wilsonville this weekend?
Thank You everyone for the medical advice

You might try any local Bass Pro Shop or Cabela's. Most carry night crawlers.

[WarriorPrincess]

WOW Cool Chantel I would have never thought of that!! Excellent idea and it also made me just think that perhaps I could create a little worm farm. I've seen people do that on TV before. How old does Casper need to be before I try some other foods. I think I saw somewhere that they eat slugs too and while I've been searching outside for worms I've seen several little slugs but didn't know if it was ok for her or not. Sorry if I sound stupid here but I've never had a snake before and I feel a huge responsibility here not to fail with such a special snake. I suppose if she were a common snake I wouldn't be so scared to do the wrong thing but then again if Casper had been a dark color I might have been too afraid to have picked it up when I first saw her. The pale white color made her not scary to me. LOL! :eek: Now I'm hooked and thinking about getting another one just not in the same aquarium as Casper cause I'd be too afraid she would get hurt by the other one.:)

[guidofatherof5]

Northwesterns love slugs. Mine go crazy for them. Any I find go right to the crew.
What do these worms you see look like?

There are a few slugs in with these night crawlers.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/worms1.jpg

[kibakiba]

You can give them variety at any age, but with slugs, make sure that it's a "safe" slug. A lot of slugs around here are a rust brown colour and secrete very thick slime that can choke a garter to death. The safe ones here are light brown with lighter brown stripes. Bill, Katach's fiance (I believe?) said you can cut off the little frills around their body to keep them from sliming, but I haven't been able to try that since it's winter.

You're doing a great job with Casper, don't feel stupid if you need help with something. We were all beginners at one point, the only way to learn is to experience it and ask questions along the way. You'll be a garter expert in no time ;)

You can buy guppies, fish filet (salmon, trout and tilapia are most popular) and slugs and offer those as food aswell. Of course, pinkies are extremely dense in nutrients, too, but aren't exactly needed if the diet is varied and supplimented. My snakes prefer pinkies over most foods, though.

[WarriorPrincess]

Do you chop up the slug or feed whole? I'll try to take a photo of them to make sure ok as PER the experts here. I don't want to poison my baby with a bad food or something. :confused:

[kibakiba]

Personally, if it's small enough, I feed them whole. Cut up slugs are a huge mess. Haha.

[WarriorPrincess]

ooooh never mind skip the slugs I'm too scared:eek::eek: LOL!:o They sound too dangerous

[guidofatherof5]

ooooh never mind skip the slugs I'm too scared:eek::eek: LOL!:o They sound too dangerous

Don't be, they are a good food source. Study and identify which you have.

Northwesterns have been eating them for many years.

[WarriorPrincess]

Hey Steve is that spinich in with your worms?

[guidofatherof5]

Hey Steve is that spinich in with your worms?

No, just some green grass from the back yard. ;)

[kibakiba]

I put in old veggy left overs with mine sometimes. I just make sure it isn't really acidic stuff, like orange peels and pomegranate stuff. I had a batch of worms die when my mom put orange peels in the container. Salad stuff that doesn't have anything on it is good, the worms I used to have loved old lettuce.

[EasternGirl]

@Chantel...Where do you get bone meal? @WarriorPrincess.. You may want to try to get casper eating pinkies...it's a good source of calcium and vitamins for garters. If not, and you are only feeding worms, you may want to consider a vitamin supplement. I will let other members recommend the vitamin supplements.

[kibakiba]

I get bone meal from the plant section of Walmart. It comes in a big box, you only need a little sprinkle in a 3 gallon tub to last you a while. The worms munch on it, and if you mix it with the soil, it helps keep it aerated.

Also, for ordinoides, they can live off of worms alone even without a whole lot of supplementing. Tha'ts how ours live in my area. Slugs aren't too common, unless my strawberry garden is growing... Lol...

[katach]

Our pre-adult NW will only eat worms. We get them at Walmart. The Canadian Night Crawlers in the dark brown dirt. We dust the worm with vitamin powder every three feedings. Just a little though. I usually dip the end she hasn't chomped down on so the smell isn't changed. She is growing well and sheds every 4-5 weeks. Worms are great, they are a bit underrated by some. My finace, Bill, has had success with feeding slug bits without having too much slim by trimming the skirts off them. We just fed the babies that Willow had with it though because they wouldn't eat anything else.

[EasternGirl]

Kat...do you use the repcal supplement? I went and bought a bunch of worms today from the bait store where I usually get them...then I got a plastic tub from the dollar store and dug up some more dirt from my yard (no fertilizer used) and put the worms in the tub with the dirt and put them in my basement. I went to Sears and asked about bone meal...no go...I'll have to try Walmart. I was also told that I could order worm bedding and food from Cabela's...might try that. Is there anything else I can feed the worms until I can get the bone meal? I put some lettuce in the soil for them...anything else? I'm just trying to keep the worms alive...they have been getting too cold and dying on me in the fridge...but it's really warm in my house..so I'm trying the basement.

[katach]

I use Tetrafauna's Reptocal. I don't have any experience raising worms though. Bill wanted to try it, but it never came to be. Since we got the 250 pinkies in November they aren't going through the worms as fast. $3 every few weeks is way better then once a week.

[EasternGirl]

Does anyone know anything about this worm kit...was thinking of buying it when I get some money: Cabela's: Magic® Worm Ranch Kit (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fish-Attractant-Bait/Aerators-Bait-Keepers-Fish-Lights|/pc/104793480/c/104718780/sc/105544980/Magic174-Worm-Ranch-Kit/702809.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishi ng-fish-attractant-bait-aerators-bait-keepers-fish-lights%2F_%2FN-1102360%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105544980%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat1047 93480%253Bcat104718780&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104718780%3Bcat105 544980)

[katach]

In my experience any thing that says "Magic...." isn't worth the money. I could be wrong though.

[kibakiba]

If you have calcium supps, they go for that pretty quickly too. Coffee grounds in small amounts are good, too, but don't overfeed them. A light sprinkle of food is all they really need to survive.

[EasternGirl]

The worm ranch thing got a lot of good reviews...it's just basically worm bedding, food, and a container to house the worms. Better than buying it all separately if it works...I might try it.

[ConcinusMan]

I put in old veggy left overs with mine sometimes. I just make sure it isn't really acidic stuff, like orange peels and pomegranate stuff. I had a batch of worms die when my mom put orange peels in the container. Salad stuff that doesn't have anything on it is good, the worms I used to have loved old lettuce.

Let's get something straight. Worms that we feed to our snakes don't eat scraps. That job is for red wigglers. Earth worms eat what has already been broken down by bacteria and composting worms. In other words they eat what has already been composted. Putting rotting scraps in with earthworms just invites mold and bacteria that will kill them.

[kibakiba]

Well they ate it. Anything they didn't eat was taken out every 3 days, but a lot of it was missing usually. But, whatever you say.

[EasternGirl]

Guess I should take the lettuce out then...

[ConcinusMan]

Kind of off topic anyway:cool:

[WarriorPrincess]

Showing off climbing around after 9th shed. She gets real friendly and shows off after giving me the gift. And then gobbles down her first worm after many days of not eating. It scares me lots when she goes into shed mode I always think she's dying or something is wrong. Used to give me anxiety attacks but now I know what's going on. She's getting huge and squeezes me when I handle her so much I'm actually getting kinda scared of her! LOL!!5897

[thamneil]

Can't believe I missed this thread! I read through the whole thing and really want to thank you. You have the ONLY albino northwestern in captivity in the world! And by the looks of it, you're taking superb care of her. Really nice to see that the little girl is in good hands. Do you have plans to allow her to breed in the future?

[ProXimuS]

Wow she's beautiful! She looks like she's gotten considerably bigger since your original post. Very nice find:)

[WarriorPrincess]

She is getting very large and agressive almost 10 months old. I wonder what would I breed her with to get more albino possibilites. She is longer then a 10 gallon tank and bigger then my index finger round. very strong too!!!

[thamneil]

Unless you were able to locate a het albino or albino northwestern, you wouldnt be able to produce any albinos in the first generation. Breeding her to a normal northwestern would create a litter of het albino northwesterns. These heterozygous babies would carry one copy of the albino gene. Two copies are needed to create a visual albino. I would find her a nice boy and see if they hit it off once she is mature enough!

[guidofatherof5]

She is getting very large and agressive almost 10 months old. I wonder what would I breed her with to get more albino possibilites. She is longer then a 10 gallon tank and bigger then my index finger round. very strong too!!!

Good to hear things are going so well. I don't know a lot about breeding Northwesterns but would guess she's got another year or more before she can start breeding.
We would love to see some updated photos if you don't mind.

[kibakiba]

I'd say 2 years, maybe. But they can breed while they're small, I believe Richard.. or maybe Joe told me that. 2 years would be more safe, imo... But that's just me.

[Jeff B]

pretty cool looking snake. You should definately try to find a mate for next spring

[infernalis]

She is getting very large and agressive almost 10 months old. I wonder what would I breed her with to get more albino possibilites. She is longer then a 10 gallon tank and bigger then my index finger round. very strong too!!!

Great update, thank you...

[katach]

Casper is looking great Donna. Glad she is doing well for you.

[Dan72]

Good to hear from Donna and Casper, thanks for the update. You are doing wonderful, Casper looks amazing.

[WarriorPrincess]

5941

[WarriorPrincess]

9th shed last month59425943shed again 2 days ago #10 :)

[guidofatherof5]

That is impressive. It appears she is doing very well. Nice job.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

That is a very nice snake. It will be very nice in the future to produce the albinos with the red stripes as well i can't wait to see some new morphs of ordinoides in the future. Great job she looks very healthy.

[Dan72]

Way to go ladies, nice job. I was just going back through the thread and noticed Casper is giving off a shed once a month almost like clock work. That is how Butterscotch has been. Seems to be healthy, happy growth. Love the pics.

[EasternGirl]

Wow! Look how big Casper has gotten! So glad you gave us an update! Good to hear from you. :). Now, when you say aggressive...do you mean with the constricting or is she biting as well? False striking? My wild caught eastern, Cee Cee, went through a phase of that after I had had her for about a year...but now she has finally learned to trust me completely with gentle interaction and letting her get used to me slowly, and on her terms. Now she loves to come out and have a cuddle now and then. Casper may calm down for you...I find some wild caughts just need a lot of time to come to trust people. :)

[kimbosaur]

Wow she looks great! And huge!

Is over 20" long at 10 months normal for a Northwestern? I was under the impression that they were smaller than that. Or is the 10 months just referring to the time that you've had her and not the actual age?

[kibakiba]

I think she's referring to how long she's had her. Mama is just barely 20" and she's (maybe) 5 years old
.

[kimbosaur]

Hmm...it seems to have grown pretty rapidly over the 10 months compared to your snake Chantel. Btw, I was waiting for you or Kat to come along and answer. :)

[kibakiba]

I think they all have different rates at growing... Snakey seemed to grow up relatively fast. Runt and Derpy grew slowly and Hades is growing fairly fast. I have points where I get too depressed and I miss a feeding or two occasionally, so that could also have a factor in it. I obviously try not to miss a feeding, but I cant always do it.

[katach]

They definitely have their own growth rate. Fish Bait is 2wks shy of 1yr and already over 12in. Then you have Maria who is probably a year to a year and a half older and only 16-17in.

[kibakiba]

I think the thing that causes the growth rates is time traveling... the more they travel, the older they are... So they get bigger, faster.. But they don't actually 'age' when they're in the present time. :D

[kimbosaur]

So would it be fair to say that she probably wasn't born the year she was found then? Assuming she was born in April at the earliest, that would mean she would be just over a year old. If this was the case then her growth rate would be around 50% faster than Fishbait. I know females are bigger than males, but that's quite a huge difference!

She just looks so tiny in the original post!

[WarriorPrincess]

5949 I just measured the tank!!! Wow I didn't realize it was 20 inches long! Hmmmm....I guess I'm just feeding her too well LOL!! And yes it has been about once a month. This time she only grew about an inch the time before that it was over 2 inches in one month. I did miss a couple feedings on this last month due to a new job and being a bad mama for a bit so perhaps it was my fault or she's reaching her growth cycle. I was wondering how big they get and when she is going to stop growing cause she is strong and is scary to hold lately. Do they have teeth?? Can she actually bite me??:eek: