I found an Albino Garden Snake

[kibakiba]

They stop at around 1.5-2 ft. They never actually stop growing, but it slows down a whole lot after that point.
She can bite and they do have teeth. It helps to be calm when you do hold her, if you're calm, she'll be more likely to be calm. Bites don't hurt all that much, they have really small teeth. It's just like sand paper.

[ProXimuS]

Remember that anything you're feeling, is going to be transferred to the animal(in this case the snake). If you're tense, they'll pick up on it. If you're hesitant, they can tell. You can't lie to an animal ;) One important thing(and I know this sounds dumb/obvious...but..)remember to breathe. If you're nervous/tense/unsure alot of times you will start to hold your breath. Pay close attention, and keep breathing.

[kerensa]

of course she can bite you. its not dreadful, may break the skin; they sometimes do. worst I've ever gotten from one is a slight rash. But I tell ya what, if she does bite you, and you just can't deal with the possibility of it happening again, you just send that lovely lady to me and I promise she won't bite you again. ;)

[Invisible Snake]

If she bites you, you can always bite her back lol jk :p

[kimbosaur]

Do you know the length she was when you found her?

[guidofatherof5]

Garter bites are as a rule nothing to worry about. Especially when we are talking about a Northwestern (T.ordinoides)
On top of that we're talking about a young snake.
Not even sure it could break the skin.
I don't recommend gloves. Your snake need to feel you and get to know you. Gloves won't let that happen. ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Can't believe I missed this thread! I read through the whole thing and really want to thank you. You have the ONLY albino northwestern in captivity in the world!

There was another up until a month or two ago but that one escaped. That one was found late last year in Kent, WA. Two found in the same year is just unheard of. Normally one pops up about every 25 years or so.

Something's striking me as very strange. The growth you've gotten out of that snake is just unheard of for a northwestern. I've never had one grow that fast. Hmmm...

[WarriorPrincess]

Hi Kimberly, I'm not good at estimating size but she was very small not much bigger then a nightcrawler I suppose. I have lots of photos from when I found her. I will eventually post them all. I can use some items to put against the items in the little yellow lid she is crawling on in the original photos to show size comparison perhaps we can figure out that way. It was a lid from Hillshire Turkey container. I can measure the ridge in the lid. All I know was little enough that I wasn't scared. LOL!! 60046005

[WarriorPrincess]

There was another up until a month or two ago but that one escaped. That one was found late last year in Kent, WA. Two found in the same year is just unheard of. Normally one pops up about every 25 years or so.

Something's striking me as very strange. The growth you've gotten out of that snake is just unheard of for a northwestern. I've never had one grow that fast. Hmmm...

I feed Casper Canadian Night crawlers and ocasionally dip them in a little Zoo med Reptivite w/D3 just lately I've been trying to add a little chop or two of pinkie mixed with the worms but she doesn't like the way it smells or eats around the pinky bits but I know she's getting a little in her cause she has a mean appetite immediately after she sheds so she eats like a wild beast anything on her plate. LOL! I took a look at the one up in Kent Wa. would have been great to breed her with his. Too bad it got away. It had a lot of brown on it, Casper is pretty white all over except the yellow stripes. She always eats big right after a shed and then tapers off 3 1/2 weeks later so she has been shedding pretty much every month to month 1/2 I'll have to look it up on my calender I mark it every time she sheds. What do you think about breading her with a albino checker do you think the checker would over power the plain albino? Wish you lived closer so you could meet her and evaluate her in person. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Absolutely not. Northwesterns breed with Northwesterns and Checkereds with Checkereds.
Cross breeding like that is the worst thing you can do for both species.

[WarriorPrincess]

Absolutely not. Northwesterns breed with Northwesterns and Checkereds with Checkereds.
Cross breeding like that is the worst thing you can do for both species.

What would be your recommendation for her?

[ConcinusMan]

I thought you were in the Portland area? I go to Vancouver, WA quite often. I'm there now. Portland is just minutes away.

I would suggest you breed her with any normal northwestern male. As long as she produces a litter, her offspring will be 100% het albino. The important thing is that the babies will carry that albino gene, thus preserving it for future generations in case something happens to her.

[WarriorPrincess]

I thought you were in the Portland area? I go to Vancouver, WA quite often. I'm there now. Portland is just minutes away.

I would suggest you breed her with any normal northwestern male. As long as she produces a litter, her offspring will be 100% het albino. The important thing is that the babies will carry that albino gene, thus preserving it for future generations in case something happens to her.

I don't want to sound stupid here but what does het mean I've seen it mentioned often but don't have a clue. And when you say 100% het albino does that mean they will all look white like Casper? I have most of the week off on vacation here so if you want to meet her let me know.

[WarriorPrincess]

I suppose I should start looking through the fields around my area for other garten snakes since it it that time of year for them. I don't know the difference between the sexes and am mostly afraid of the ones with color but if I wore gloves I suppose I could do it. Just scary :eek: I've always ran from them in the yard in the past. LOL! :D

[guidofatherof5]

Study this thread to help you with the sex ID.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/5069-sexing-pics.html

[ConcinusMan]

Het is just short for "Heterozygous". Without getting into a long explanation about DNA, the double helix, dominant/recessive genes, and alleles, The offspring will look normal, but if bred to a sibling or back to the mother, can produce albinos.

Do you know the exact location where the albino was found? I ask because in order to be albino, the snake had to have received a mutated gene from both parents. In other words, there must be hets in the area.

[WarriorPrincess]

6066you can see a pipe to the left side of the curb where the driveway slopes then at the entry of the home walking up to door is a walkway under the number 120 is a bush. Ok with all that in mind summertime I saw a normal dark color medium in size go under that bush while I was weeding it freaked me out so much I quit weeding for the day. Fast forward to Oct. 23rd. at the bottom of the walkway while decorating for Halloween about 3 feet from that pipe at the curb I saw Casper. Like I said I thought at first she was a kids halloween decoration but she moved. She was so little and light in color and for some reason didn't scare me so I picked her up and I put her into a tupperware container until I got to the pet store and that's where the story starts. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for picking her up. What a special snake.

[guidofatherof5]

What would be your recommendation for her?

Find a same local Northwestern (T.ordinoides) male or better yet get a captive breed male from someone in your area.

[WarriorPrincess]

6072

[guidofatherof5]

Looking good. Keep those photos coming. Albino T.ordinoides. You have one special snake there.

[WarriorPrincess]

60946095

[guidofatherof5]

What is your food/feeding schedule?

[ProXimuS]

I like Casper:)

[WarriorPrincess]

1 large night crawler a day 2 if she still searches in the evening. Towards the end of the month she starts waning and eats less to nothing 5-7 days before next shed. Like today she was out of her cave and I put a worm in and now almost 8 PM and she hasn't touched it. So I think she's going into that phase again. Her skin is kinda cloudy so that's probably what's going on. It will be shed #11 since Oct. 23rd 2011

[kimbosaur]

Wow Casper's looking good! :D


Something's striking me as very strange. The growth you've gotten out of that snake is just unheard of for a northwestern. I've never had one grow that fast. Hmmm...

That's what I was thinking

[guidofatherof5]

Instead of everyday you might go to 2-3 times a week.
Casper isn't going to like it but it's best. Thought Casper was looking a little chunky.;)
Northwesterns (T.ordinoides) are eating machines and will eat everyday if you let them. Just don't let them.

[ConcinusMan]

6066you can see a pipe to the left side of the curb where the driveway slopes then at the entry of the home walking up to door is a walkway under the number 120 is a bush. Ok with all that in mind summertime I saw a normal dark color medium in size go under that bush while I was weeding it freaked me out so much I quit weeding for the day. Fast forward to Oct. 23rd. at the bottom of the walkway while decorating for Halloween about 3 feet from that pipe at the curb I saw Casper. Like I said I thought at first she was a kids halloween decoration but she moved. She was so little and light in color and for some reason didn't scare me so I picked her up and I put her into a tupperware container until I got to the pet store and that's where the story starts. :)

Being that time of year, this is apparently where some northwesterns choose to spend the winter. It is highly probable that there are relatives of casper that den here. If you breed her to one from this same location, there's a chance that the male could also carry the albino gene (he could be a het) and maybe produce albinos.

Snakes tend to den in the same place every year, and spend their lives in a relatively small area. If snakes from this location produced an albino, they could do it again, and many of the "normal" looking snakes could be carrying the gene.

[WarriorPrincess]

6131
Just wanted to let you know the photo on the bottom that says attached thumbnails is very old just attached it and couldn't deleate it for some reason so don't worry nothing is wrong with caspers mouth she used to pucker like that day or two before she shed. I haven't had time to watch for it lately so I don't know if she still does it. I just leave her alone when she goes into shed mode now this photo was from several months back.

[kibakiba]

What a porker.. Haha, she looks bigger than Big Mama! :D

[guidofatherof5]

It's diet time for Casper. Feeding twice a week would work well until she slims down.

[ConcinusMan]

She does seem way too fat

[Invisible Snake]

It's diet time for Casper. Feeding twice a week would work well until she slims down. I concur.

[ConcinusMan]

It is possible to love them to death.:cool:

[WarriorPrincess]

Just got back to this site. My computer crashed and I had lost my info for this site. Got a new Laptop but couldn't remember how to get back here. Got back to the YouTube video I had posted and saw post ThamnophisMan had mentioned this site and looked up my user name which I had forgot too LOL!! Anyway blah blah blah! I found my way back after over a year. Casper is still doing GREAT! I think she's old enough to breed now. Haven't seen anymore snakes in my yard that she might be related to so I'm going to venture out of my area to find a compatible mate soon. I was told to breed her to her offspring to try to get an albino male to occur and then breed her to it. Is that what the recommended steps are? I got to thinking...Why not breed her to an albino checker wouldn't that produce the same or better results? Just wondering. Anyway She's now 2 years 3months old and Happy and Healthy. Not bad for a newbie eh? For all the doubters and haters I first encountered :p

[NancyG]

oop.. didn't realize how old the thread was!!

[NancyG]

I'm bookmarking this thread, I hope everyone keeps it going, I want to see how Casper is doing too! it's been a fun read!

[NancyG]

the Checkered is a different subspecies of snake... they are closely related enough that they can breed, but the results can vary.. and hybrid offspring like that isn't good, sort of like mating a dog to a wolf or coyote, they don't normally crossbreed, and the result can be very unstable.. and again, not good for either species... There can be odd health problems that can show up as well as behavior.

It's much better to breed her with another Western Garter snake, maybe you could have a couple of the local/semi local garter folks out for a visit at the right time of the year (spring maybe?) to meet Casper and see if they can wild catch a nice boyfriend from the local area, (who MIGHT also be carrying that albino gene) for Casper. IF you are very lucky, you might get a few albino babies,

Trust me, you have people here who are very interested in giving all (regardless of normal or albino color) of those babies good homes and hopefully one day having albinos of their own. Did you know that they give live birth? It surprised me when I found out, my other pet snakes are cornsnakes, and they lay eggs.

[Dan72]

Glad to see you back and everyone is doing good.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you back and good to hear Casper is doing well.

Please, no cross breeding. It produces mutts that don't benefit anyone especially the gene pool of both snakes. I hope you can come across another albino Northwestern but the chances of that happening are not good. This means you have to take the slow road to reproducing another albino. The bright side is you will be producing hets. which is awesome.

[ConcinusMan]

the Checkered is a different subspecies of snake...

No, it isn't. One is not a subspecies of the other. They are completely different species. One is Thamnophis ordinoides which has no subspecies, the other is Thamnophis marcianus.


they are closely related enough that they can breed.

Actually they aren't "close enough". Northwesterns have diverged enough from most other garter species, and from other species with which they share their range, that reproductive isolation has occurred. They not only wouldn't (and don't) breed with other species in their range, it's impossible for them to do so due to drastic physical differences in their reproductive organs. It's like trying to "cram a square peg in a round hole". Their sex attractant hormones are different too. They simply don't attract other species and they aren't attracted to other species. It's highly unlikely they would or could crossbreed with anything other than perhaps their closest living relatives; Butler's and Short-headed but that hasn't been tested that I know of. Even though they are one of the smallest species, they are actually more closely related to the endangered giant garter snake than they are to T. sirtalis or T. marcianus and they still can't breed with a giant garter.


For all the doubters and haters I first encountered

There was only concern that the rare to opportunity finally preserve the albino gene for this species in captive lines would slip away once again. The chance has came and went several times in the past few years and we either don't hear from the people again, or their lack of experience results in the snake dying before it even gets old enough to breed or else they just don't know how to breed them or don't plan to. Baby northwesterns can be difficult to raise successfully even for me and I have years of experience with the species and garters in general. You lucked out big time.

Even now that the snake is obviously doing fine, keeping a snake alive and healthy, and successfully breeding to preserve the morph is a whole different ballgame and not exactly a beginners undertaking. Case in point, the idea of breeding her to an albino checkered. Not only would that not preserve the gene, it would create worthless hybrids and wouldn't even preserve the species let alone the morph. That is, if they could even breed with a checkered, which they can't. Also, the allele mutation that causes albinism in one species is often not the same mutation that causes it in another. Recessive morphs must carry two copies of the same allele mutation (or at least two versions of a nonfunctional allele) on the same locus in order to come out albino. In other words, breeding an albino northwestern to an albino checkered would likely not produce albinos even of you could cross the two. Same thing happens when you try to breed a T+ albino radix to a T- albino radix. You don't get albinos, you get double hets because the two forms of albinism don't reside on the same locus.


Here's my advice: Breed her to her own kind soon and it doesn't much matter what color the male is or where you get him as long as he is also a northwestern. The point is that she has offspring before something happens and she is lost or dies. All her offspring will be het for albino. That is, on the locus that carries the mutation, the babies will receive the mutated allele from mom, and a normal allele from dad if he is normal. It only takes one normal allele for the snake to be normal but in order to be albino the snake has to receive the mutated version of the allele from BOTH parents.

If she was bred to a male and had normal babies there's still the long and often difficult road ahead in raising her offspring to adulthood. Now, remember they will all carry one copy of the mutated allele. So, if you raised up a male and bred it back to mom, any eggs that recieve the mutated copy from the male AND mom, will come out albino. You could also breed two of these het siblings together and there would be a 50/50 chance of any one of the resulting offspring to coming out albino.

If this is something that you intend to do, she should have went into brumation a month ago and in the spring when a male is available, bring her out and put several males in with her and hopefully she would breed with one of them and produce offspring that are het for albino.

You did well. She's still alive and healthy and old enough to breed. But that's just one of many hurdles to overcome. She still has to survive a brumation (again, not a thing for beginners) and still has to successfully breed and produce healthy offspring. If that were done, losing her wouldn't be losing the morph forever since her offspring would carry the mutation for the next generation. As it stands now, if she died in brumation or was otherwise lost before having offspring, the morph dies with her until someone can find another wild albino. And that doesn't happen very often.

[guidofatherof5]

How about a few updated photos of this wonderful snake.

[ConcinusMan]

Personally I'd like to see her bred to an erythristic (red) male so her offspring have a chance of carrying both traits and someday be used to create an erythristic albino line. Imagine a snake that's albino like her, but very red. But at this point, ANY offspring from her would at least ensure the line/morph isn't lost if something happens to her. While the albino morph in this species isn't particularly flashy or pretty, it has the potential to spawn one of a kind and amazing combo morphs depending on what other colors are combined with the amelanism and we know that there are a lot of colors to choose from. Just think what she would have looked like if she was albino and inherited a bright orange or red stripe instead of yellow? the combo possibilities are endless but in order to do it, her albino mutation must be passed on and it could take many years and generations but some amazing snakes could be produced someday using this mutation. But that will never happen if she doesn't have babies. It also won't happen unless an experienced and knowledgeable garter breeder dedicated to producing such a line, doesn't get ahold of at least one of her offspring and remain dedicated to the project no matter how long it takes to actually produce another albino.

[WarriorPrincess]

Had trouble getting her to hold still but I'll try again tomorrow10183

[guidofatherof5]

Still looking good.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

She is an awesome snake and i would love to have offspring from her! You have done a fantastic job with her so now i hope she will produce some healthy offspring for you! Keep us posted on her and thanks for taking such great care of such a rare and beautiful animal! Keep me in mind if you get too many offspring and wish to part with some!

[guidofatherof5]

She is an awesome snake and i would love to have offspring from her! You have done a fantastic job with her so now i hope she will produce some healthy offspring for you! Keep us posted on her and thanks for taking such great care of such a rare and beautiful animal! Keep me in mind if you get too many offspring and wish to part with some!

Nicely said and I agree.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I just find it amazing that someone that was scared of snakes took the time to stop and recognized
that this was a rare and beautiful snake. The fact that she took it in to care for it and keep it alive and now is willing to tempt and breed her to preserve her genes for the hobby is just so awesome! Thanks for what you've done because that snake had a very slim chance of making it in the wild!

[WarriorPrincess]

Casper just freckin bit me!!! In 2 years she's never done that before!!!! I washed it with hot soapy water and put alcohol on the bite. Is there anything I should worry about??????? HELP!!1021810219

[guidofatherof5]

Nothing to worry about.
Nice work Casper.:D Welcome to the club.

[WarriorPrincess]

No neurotoxins huh? LOL! I didn't even know she had teeth!!!:p Well don't I feel silly!

[guidofatherof5]

Those little needle teeth are great for holding prey or biting loved ones.

[WarriorPrincess]

Well I read to wake them from bermation you should give them a luke warm bath. But I think I was misinformed. Uh well I'll keep researching since she didn't like that much. Just got worried cause she went sleep without totally emptying her tummy and I didn't want anything to go funky in her tummy. Guess I'll let her just do her thang her own way. She's mad with good reason I guess. Ya just don't wake them up that way. Hey I'm still learning so hopefully everyone here gives me some slack. I Love her and I'm doing my best so please no hater comments folks :-) And Thanks Steve for letting me know I will live LOL! :o

[chris-uk]

Well I read to wake them from bermation you should give them a luke warm bath. But I think I was misinformed. Uh well I'll keep researching since she didn't like that much. Just got worried cause she went sleep without totally emptying her tummy and I didn't want anything to go funky in her tummy. Guess I'll let her just do her thang her own way. She's mad with good reason I guess. Ya just don't wake them up that way. Hey I'm still learning so hopefully everyone here gives me some slack. I Love her and I'm doing my best so please no hater comments folks :-) And Thanks Steve for letting me know I will live LOL! :o

You've just learned that she will tell you in no uncertain terms if you treat her in a way she doesn't like. :)
Regards the waking from brumation. Have you turned of her heat or moved her to a cold place? If she's just become inactive and hanging out in the cold parts of her viv, but still has the choice of moving to a warm spot, then you don't need to worry about her digestive system not being clear as she will regulate her own temp to digest the food and won't let it go rotten in her stomach. The time you need to be sure they are empty is when you force them into a brumation situation (like when I take mine out to their brumation chamber in my garage).

[BLUESIRTALIS]

As far as preparing for brumation goes i feed mine real heavy for a month to make sure they have good weight and then i take them off feed for 2 weeks and before i put them in brumation i give them a nice long soak in luke warm water just to make sure they don't have anything left in their stomach. When i bring them out of brumation i gradually warm them up to the desired temp and then i let them settle for a few days before i offer food! I wouldn't soak them in warm water to wake them from brumation out of fear that going from cold to hot too fast could cause them to go into shock! She should be just fine, but i'm a little worried about you! Lol! :eek:
well i read to wake them from bermation you should give them a luke warm bath. But i think i was misinformed. Uh well i'll keep researching since she didn't like that much. Just got worried cause she went sleep without totally emptying her tummy and i didn't want anything to go funky in her tummy. Guess i'll let her just do her thang her own way. She's mad with good reason i guess. Ya just don't wake them up that way. Hey i'm still learning so hopefully everyone here gives me some slack. I love her and i'm doing my best so please no hater comments folks :-) and thanks steve for letting me know i will live lol! :o

[ConcinusMan]

As far as preparing for brumation goes i feed mine real heavy for a month to make sure they have good weight and then i take them off feed for 2 weeks and before i put them in brumation i give them a nice long soak in luke warm water just to make sure they don't have anything left in their stomach. When i bring them out of brumation i gradually warm them up to the desired temp and then i let them settle for a few days before i offer food! I wouldn't soak them in warm water to wake them from brumation out of fear that going from cold to hot too fast could cause them to go into shock! She should be just fine, but i'm a little worried about you! Lol! :eek:

Forget it dude. She's a lost cause. She won't listen, and won't take advice, (because we are all haters) an in this case she took a tidbit out of context and ran over cliff with it. This could have killed the snake easily. i consider it a miracle the snake has survived this long.

[guidofatherof5]

Forget it dude. She's a lost cause. She won't listen, and won't take advice, (because we are all haters) an in this case she took a tidbit out of context and ran over cliff with it. This could have killed the snake easily. i consider it a miracle the snake has survived this long.

I think you were rather harsh Richard.

We've all made mistakes in our garter journey.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

When I said I was a little worried about her it was a joke about her getting bit! As far as the soak thing goes she was either misinformed by someone or maybe the snake was already warmed up and she just gave It a soak. I just wanted her to be aware of the issue just in case she was misinformed! I think she has done an awesome job considering she never kept a snake before! This is a learning experience for us all and we learn new things everyday so we need to take what we have learned and use it to help and encourage others and that is why I gave her my advice on how I brumate and bring out my animals. This works with great success for me! I don't think Richard means to sound hateful he is just very personal when it comes to ordies considering he has wanted an albino for years and most people that posted them up just disappeared so thank you for continuing to keep us updated! Did you get a male for her?
As far as preparing for brumation goes i feed mine real heavy for a month to make sure they have good weight and then i take them off feed for 2 weeks and before i put them in brumation i give them a nice long soak in luke warm water just to make sure they don't have anything left in their stomach. When i bring them out of brumation i gradually warm them up to the desired temp and then i let them settle for a few days before i offer food! I wouldn't soak them in warm water to wake them from brumation out of fear that going from cold to hot too fast could cause them to go into shock! She should be just fine, but i'm a little worried about you! Lol! :eek:

[NancyG]

When do we get to see some more pics of how big she's gotten? I think the last time I saw any she was a little pudgy!!

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think Richard means to sound hateful he is just very personal when it comes to ordies considering he has wanted an albino for years and most people that posted them up just disappeared

Yes, pretty much. A few of these have been found in the past few years which is just unheard of and it's always someone that doesn't know the first thing about husbandry or makes a "newbie mistake" like this one and kills it, or allows it to escape, or we never hear from them again. In spite of the unprecedented number of chances lately to get this morph in captivity, and get it reproducing, every chance has gone out the window due to the hardheadedness and unwillingness to listen to experienced advice and it's just very frustrating. But simply stating this, she threw a tantrum and said i was "hating". notice how defensive she was "no hater comments".


I think she has done an awesome job considering she never kept a snake before!

I think so too, but growing it up is only the first step. There's still brumating and reproduction to get through. A daunting task for someone new to snakes and one little "newbie mistake" like this potentially fatal one and you're back to square one - waiting for another one to turn up, which happens very rarely.
We have lots of albinos in the hobby but that's only because someone who knew what they were doing ended up with the original WC snakes or offspring. And we still don't have the morph in this species because they are so rarely found. It's the potential for it to combined with all the different polygenic traits this species has that gives this such great potential in the hands of experienced breeders and that's pretty much why I'm so concerned with it, not so much for the looks of the albino itself because it's not like it's spectacular in itself or anything like that. I don't really care about getting an albino. I just want to see het offspring at least, make it into the hand of experienced breeders even if it isn't me, before something like this happens and we lose it for the 5th time in as many years.

And then I hear about this incident and it just makes me cringe.

So, i apologize to warriorprincess. I'm just frustrated and fed up because 4 or 5 have been found in as many years (which is unheard of. one usually turns up only about every 10 or 20 years) and the opportunity went right out the window every time and it darn near just did again. It's just frustrating is all. i would say the snake is definitely ready to reproduce but alas, she probably doesn't know the first thing about how to do that. That is not a "hater" comment and not a personal insult, it's just the reality. We were all "newbs" at one time and made mistakes and lost or killed snakes. But it wasn't with the only of their kind in captivity! I'll give her a dozen snakes. Heck, i'd give her 2 albino garters for that one. Let her make the mistakes with those, but not this one! know what I mean?

[chris-uk]

Yes, pretty much. A few of these have been found in the past few years which is just unheard of and it's always someone that doesn't know the first thing about husbandry or makes a "newbie mistake" like this one and kills it, or allows it to escape, or we never hear from them again.

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts. Richard, you know your snakes, but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking. Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.
I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice. At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal. In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

[ConcinusMan]

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts. Richard, you know your snakes, but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking. Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.
I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice. At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal. In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.

[guidofatherof5]

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.

People change and the past was the past.

[WarriorPrincess]

You weren't there and most of the dialogue we had wasn't even on this forum and was over a year ago. The very moment anyone tried to give her husbandry advice, or pointed out things she might be doing wrong, nicely or not, she immediately got very defensive and shut her ears. Then the advice she did take, was putting a brumating snake in warm water so yeah, of course I'm critical. She doesn't seem to want real and proper, honest advice. She wants someone to tell her she's awesome and doing everything right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HsoYpvABr0&list=UUZYEE-26ZZMNYyCcoWV6Fxw I believe Richard this is the dialogue you are referring to in my youtube account where you say I immediately got very defensive and ?? Shut my ears?? WTF dude!! You are offensive and judgmental a I asked you nicely to refrain from judging me or if you still felt the need to at least do so constructively. I noticed in the comment section you deleted the comment that started it all so you don't take any responsibility for my defensive behavior. So be it.... but I do receive every comment in an email from youtube and that is not deleted. So whatever! I'm sorry you feel personally deprived that I do not include your desire to be involved in this event but why would I? Neither Casper or myself are lost causes and I do not require anyone to tell me I'm awesome or doing everything right. You speak of honest advice when all your advise has been selfish and demeaning. Sure I am a newbie and you may have 25 years in your hobby but the only lost cause I see here is you ever owning any of Caspers offspring. So enjoy yourself speaking ill of me because yes at this point I am shutting my ears to you. Please consider your quote at the bottom of your post and re-evaluate yourself. " It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

[slipknot711]

*walks out slowly* :confused:

[ConcinusMan]

"I noticed in the comment section you deleted the comment that started it all" That's because that comment wasn't intended for you at all. I told you that, and apoplogized for the mistake. Everything else isn't anything I haven't said here. I don't know what "experienced keepers" you are supposedly working with that told you to put a brumating snake in warm water but whoever it was is an idiot. I consider it a miracle that didn't kill it. When you bring a fish home and it's cold, you just drop it in a warm tank? No. That will kill them and will kill a snake too.

[chris-uk]

I think we need to consider the definition of "brumating snake". It wasn't a snake in brumation, it was a snake that was being kept in the same temperature gradient that decided to spend all its time on the cold side of the gradient. That to me isn't a "brumating snake".
As for the advice, aren't there several people who suggest popping a snake in warm water to encourage it to crap before you brumate it? Not something you should do for a snake that has actually been cooled to wake it up though.

I think Xena just doesn't use the correct terminology sometimes, which allows some people to jump to conclusions and criticise before asking reasonable questions.
All you've done Richard is guarantee you'll never see any offspring from this snake if it ever breeds, so if your motivation was wanting to see an albino Northwestern in the hobby you've kinda taken the wrong way about it. This is generally a nice forum, as you've shown that you have nothing nice to say in this thread I'd suggest that you pretend it doesn't exist and stop reading and posting in it Richard. That little move will make the world a slightly nicer place (and makes my comments above redundant).

[ConcinusMan]

I think we need to consider the definition of "brumating snake". It wasn't a snake in brumation, it was a snake that was being kept in the same temperature gradient that decided to spend all its time on the cold side of the gradient. That to me isn't a "brumating snake".

So it's being overheated too. i give up.

[chris-uk]

i give up.

Good. I used to think that you provided good advice, however over the years I've seen that your gems of advice are diluted more and more by the sort of rubbish we see in this thread.

You've got no evidence that the snake has been overheated. I've got an albino checkered which I haven't brumated thus year, she's spent almost all of the last two months in her cold hide, it's not because she's been overheated. The temps in her viv are the same as they have been for 2 years, and the normal checkered girl that lives with her spent a month in the cold hide before deciding it was time to eat and started to spend more time on the warm side. So I've also got an albino that has chosen to slow down for the winter (I'm experienced enough not to describe this as putting herself into brumation).
As Richard has kindly given up on this thread this post is aimed more to point out that spending time in a cold hide isn't necessarily a sign that your viv is too warm.

[ConcinusMan]

One of the reasons we never hear from them again is because they feel intimidated by replies to their posts.

Intimidated by words on a screen? sorry if I cannot relate to that. You might type "**** you" but my *** doesn't hurt so I am not intimidated.


Richard, you know your snakes

Enough said.


but your interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking.

So what. A snake couldn't care less about my interpersonal skills but I think that you are probably mistaken. Having a skill and actually using it are 2 different things.



Even you're apology is a thinly veiled criticism.

There is no veil. It's a criticism.



I'm impressed that WarriorPrincess is still checking in with us and asking for advice.

Why is that impressive? Seems the natural thing to do since you cannot ask the snake what it needs.


At the end of the day a "newbie" was in the right place at the right time and found her way to a forum where she could be guided and nurtured so that she wasn't a newbie who might make a mistake with a precious animal.

But she is a "newbie" and she did make a mistake.


In her position I would have stuck two finger up at you and you'd never have heard from me again.

But you aren't in her position, you didn't stick a finger up, and I did hear from you again.


If the ultimate goal is to get the genes from this garter into captive populations then being nice to the person that possesses it is probably the better approach.

Nope. applying knowledge proper husbandry and experience is all that matters. The snake will thrive and reproduce if said knowledge is applied. snake's health is not dependent on me being a "nice" person.



You've got no evidence that the snake has been overheated.

Sure I do. The behavior of the snake is all the evidence I need.



I've got an albino checkered which I haven't brumated thus year, she's spent almost all of the last two months in her cold hide, it's not because she's been overheated.

sure it is. The snake is seeking the coolest part of the viv. What more evidence do you need? Does the snake need to hold up a neon sign before you get the message?


The temps in her viv are the same as they have been for 2 years, and the normal checkered girl that lives with her spent a month in the cold hide before deciding it was time to eat and started to spend more time on the warm side. So I've also got an albino that has chosen to slow down for the winter (I'm experienced enough not to describe this as putting herself into brumation)

Then you are probably experienced enough to know that during a brumation period, "overheating" temps during that time, is not the same temperature as overheating during the summer.



As Richard has kindly given up on this thread

I didn't say that I gave up on the thread.


this post is aimed more to point out that spending time in a cold hide isn't necessarily a sign that your viv is too warm.

True. It's a sign that it's too warm for a snake in "self brumation". either way, its a sign that the snake is overheated.



All you've done Richard is guarantee you'll never see any offspring from this snake if it ever breeds

How many times do I have to say that I don't care if I see them. I just want to see it happen.


you pretend it doesn't exist and stop reading and posting in it Richard. That little move will make the world a slightly nicer place (and makes my comments above redundant).

The world isn't a nice place and I'm not out to change that.

[ConcinusMan]

all your advise has been selfish and demeaning.

It was not selfish, it was in the best interest of the snake and the hobby. calling a person "ignorant" for example, is not demeaning. I cannot give advice on how to build a nuclear reactor. I do not consider it demeaning to me if someone with that knowledge tells me I don't know a ****ing thing about it because I actually don't know anything about it.

If someone told me I am the "wrong person" to build a reactor, and I don't know how, I should just get offended and dismiss their knowledge? That is what you did.

[ConcinusMan]

When are you guys going to figure out that I am not quite right in the head? Please try not to hold it against me. I've been this way all my life. I am not simply an *******. I am mentally ill. Certifiable personality disorders. You wouldn't criticize a mentally handicapped person for drooling on himself. This isn't much different. Not my finest month. It will pass. You all know the story of "jeckle and hyde". That story is actually about a certain class of mental illnesses/personality disorders. i have that. Hope that explains a lot of my behavior. I would apologize but it would be an empty apology because i will just do it again. It's not something I can control.

[WarriorPrincess]

When are you guys going to figure out that I am not quite right in the head? Please try not to hold it against me. I've been this way all my life. I am not simply an *******. I am mentally ill. Certifiable personality disorders. You wouldn't criticize a mentally handicapped person for drooling on himself. This isn't much different. Not my finest month. It will pass. You all know the story of "jeckle and hyde". That story is actually about a certain class of mental illnesses/personality disorders. i have that. Hope that explains a lot of my behavior. I would apologize but it would be an empty apology because i will just do it again. It's not something I can control.
I am sorry Richard. I intend no ill will towards you. I hope you feel better soon. Thank you for the offer to buy Casper but she is not for sale. If I find another on I will give it to you that is the best I can offer. This one belongs to my Godson.

[ConcinusMan]

OK. really wasn't my offer I was just asked to pass it along. I didn't figure you would take it. But if you ever get hets out of him let me know. They're honestly not even for me but let me know anyway and an offer still might be good. ;)

[ConcinusMan]

If I find another on I will give it to you that is the best I can offer.

Might be worthwhile to go poking around tomorrow where he was found, you never know. It's supposed to be sunny and 60 degrees, I'm sure they'll be out.

[WarriorPrincess]

10274Casper eating a dirty worm Yummy!! She's out and eating again!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice to see you Casper.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Casper is looking good!

[NancyG]

Yayyy!! Muah'dib, we have worm sign!!! (giggles)

[jaleely]

I wonder how Casper is doing? : )

[guidofatherof5]

I wonder how Casper is doing? : )


10274Casper eating a dirty worm Yummy!! She's out and eating again!!!


There you go.

[jaleely]

lol, i realized i've been looking at the wrong spot for post dates. Hey, it's been a while!
thanks ; )

[WarriorPrincess]

It it really TRUE? Has the ConcinusMan really been Banned from this site? Is it really safe to jump back into the water? :)

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, it is true.

[slipknot711]

Idk how I feel about it

[PsychedelicTarantulas]

So any updates on this?

I think it is absolutely a shame this person didn't do all they could to get this to a very experienced breeder, like Scott Felzer or someone. I'm sure some of the offspring would have been offered, and then she could have had a "pet" while still getting these valuable genetics into the hobby.

I'd would have rather seen this animal released to at least spreads genetics in the wild.

I can't say I'm really against some of the "harsher" comments made in this thread. I do see how some could have been a bit more "tactful" but when the Original poster obviously hadn't even read a garter care sheet I understand their frustration over such a rare animal.

Most of these mistakes and questions could have easily been cleared up if the original poster had even spent a few hours researching and doing some simple googling. All I can really say is thank god she found this forum.

If the Original Poster is reading this PLEASE see the importance of getting this animal to someone with experience if you still have it, or please breed! I'm sure someone here will send a new "pet" and offspring from breeding. I will say you are doing a pretty good job at care but this isn't the point at all here. It is just extremely selfish and a waste to keep this snake and not breed it, IMO.

[guidofatherof5]

So any updates on this?

I think it is absolutely a shame this person didn't do all they could to get this to a very experienced breeder, like Scott Felzer or someone. I'm sure some of the offspring would have been offered, and then she could have had a "pet" while still getting these valuable genetics into the hobby.

I'd would have rather seen this animal released to at least spreads genetics in the wild.

I can't say I'm really against some of the "harsher" comments made in this thread. I do see how some could have been a bit more "tactful" but when the Original poster obviously hadn't even read a garter care sheet I understand their frustration over such a rare animal.

Most of these mistakes and questions could have easily been cleared up if the original poster had even spent a few hours researching and doing some simple googling. All I can really say is thank god she found this forum.

If the Original Poster is reading this PLEASE see the importance of getting this animal to someone with experience if you still have it, or please breed! I'm sure someone here will send a new "pet" and offspring from breeding. It is just extremely selfish and a waste to keep this snake and not breed it, IMO.

I certainly don't want to light a fire here but this snake belongs to her. If she wants to keep it and not breed it that's her business. Some might not agree with that but we should respect her choice. She's taken some abuse ever since asking for help and that isn't what this forum is about.
She is here on the forum asking for help and advice. I understand the rarity of this snake but calling her extremely selfish is a bit harsh in my opinion.
I'm glad the snake is being given care from a person who is interested in its welfare.
I'm very glad the snake is thriving in her care because its chances in the wild are the same two, slim and none.
Just my opinion, no disrespect intended;)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey patrick from my understanding she is going to try and breed it when she gets a mate for it. I would love to snatch up a few scrubs from her! Lol!

[PsychedelicTarantulas]

That is awesome news! My heart sunk thinking there was no intent to breed....

I know I came off as being harsh but if I had ever found an animal so rare I'd of bent over backwards to get it to a breeder knowing I could still have some babies from them, and I am no newbie. It's about advancement of the hobby and the genetics in it. It's about doing the right thing to me. I was taken back by the lack of research done at first and the 0% desire to get this to a breeder...

I do applaud the keeper for how well they are doing. They seem a 100 times more knowledgeable since there original post, and I can tell they have done research now. I do wish them the best and I do respect the decision of the original poster. I just wish they'd consider the hobby as a whole.

It all reminds me of my own similar incident. I am an amateur mycologist. I once had a Leucistic form of a certain mushroom strain pop up for me. This was the only known one of it's kind. Instead of keeping the spores and trying to work on this strain for myself I made sure to get spores out to several experienced mycologists. Now this strain is easily found and can be found and worked on by mycologists everywhere. Know if I can just get everyone to stop calling it an albino strain. I just feel If I hadn't spread those spores that strain my have died with me....

[WarriorPrincess]

11229112261122711228 Almost Caspers Birthday!:D

[guidofatherof5]

Casper is looking good. You are doing a great job caring for him.;) Happy early birthday Casper

[WarriorPrincess]

Hey I think I found Casper a Boy Toy!!! Tonight while working in my back yard I found this sweetie!!!! I've been praying for a mate for Casper from her own neighborhood and hopefully you nice folks can tell me what to do now that I might have found one :-) Here are some photos of the underside and hopefully they are good enough to sex it. I'm a little afraid after being bit by Casper and I don't know this snake very well but it looks like a regular Garter Snake to me. I have it in a fish bowl and I was going to put some screen with a wire around the top to secure it and then put it in with Casper but with the fish bowl as a barrier. This is due to an unfortunate incident with a cute little frog I though would be a good companion for Casper last week. But that we will not speak of :eek: anyway this snake is smaller then Casper so I assume much younger and Casper is a bit aggressive since she bit me so I'm not going to put it in with her without a barrier for now. Correct???? But tonight I have nothing else to put the other snake into and everyone in my house is freaking out a little so hoping I get approval for this idea with window screen on fish bowl as a lid and into Caspers tank. Ok here are the photos :) Hope it's a boy!1123011231112321123311234

[WarriorPrincess]

1123511236a couple more photos of the underside. I notice a white kinda split. I think it looks different then Casper so I hope it's a boy. Anyway I've been thinking it over and reading more post and since I'm afraid Casper might eat him if he gets out of the fish bowl I'm going to put him in my shed tonight and hope for the best. Looking forward to hearing from someone soon. If it's a boy I will get another tank and wait till he's bigger or older?? I donno what to do here. But I figure quarantine is safer for now. He's so much tamer then Casper. I don't know how Casper got so aggressive since she bit me I do admit she must smell the fear on me. LOL!:p

[guidofatherof5]

The photos you posted don't give me a good enough look for me to sex the snake. I think since Casper is such a special snake you need to keep the new snake away from her for at least 90 days. Quarantine this new snake to be sure you're not introducing something that could harm Casper. Quarantine is very important for all new snakes and for the continued good health of currant snakes.;)
I don't think cannibalism is much of a problem with T. ordinoides.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/7224-quarantine-talk-thread.html

[WarriorPrincess]

Side by side meeting very interested in each other. I assume they can smell each other cause she left her dinner and became more interested in the smells outside her tank. It really shows the size difference in each other too. Caspers face is just dirty cause she jumped into her snack bowl. 11237112381123911240

[WarriorPrincess]

OK Thanks Steve tomorrow after I get home from work I will take more photos of it's underbelly hopefully I can get a good shot. Also I'm going to keep the other snake away from Casper. I was reading the Quarantine Thread but didn't get as far as the 90 day part. I only put them side by side for a couple photos. I gave the other snake a couple pieces of worm but not interested. I'm sure cause of all the commotion of capture. I will release it if it's a girl and keep searching for Caspers mate. My family isn't too keen on 2 snakes in the house especially a dark one. That is strange but Casper didn't really scare anyone being lite in color and now she's more aggressive then the dark one. Go figure! LOL! I like the new one it's so sweet and easy going. But even Casper was a stranger at one point so I can't wrap my head around the fear thing. Anyway tomorrow new photos and I will Quarantine. Thank You ;) Nite nite

[guidofatherof5]

Don't be too concerned about the size difference. If the male is sexually mature it doesn't matter how big the female is, he'll take care of his business.
Once you have the new home for this snake he'll settle in and probably start eating. Being in a small glass bowl with no hide is pretty stressful.

[WarriorPrincess]

11284

[guidofatherof5]

I will say male. The longer I look at the photo the more I second guess myself. I don't see the clear cut signs of it being a male but the tail does stay wide for 6 to 7 scales. That is a tough one.

[WarriorPrincess]

11289112901129111292a few more photos. Difficult to get good ones cause wiggle wiggle wiggle LOL!

[slipknot711]

id say male also. but like steve the more i look the more i second guess myself.

[WarriorPrincess]

11297 Heeeeeeeey Laaaaaaaaady!!!!! Could I get a little more pinkie over here!!!! :p

[WarriorPrincess]

11298 Thank You! Gonna take my pinky for a swim now! Nom nom nom:)

[WarriorPrincess]

11742117431174411745If the conclusion is this is still a male he doesn't like Casper anymore opinions on his sex? It's a real sweetie just super scared of Casper for some reason. Not a big eater either.

[Zdravko092368]

This is a crazy thread, I can't believe this is still being updated by the person who found the snake four years ago, I can't believe a wild caught albino garter snake found by someone who thought it eats crickets and was called a garden snake has kept it alive this long and brumated it and made it to the point of preparing for breeding. This thread is so interesting and i'm seeing it for the first time. I'd imagine this drama is what contributed to Richards ban as well, what a thread. Hope you successfully breed this snake and get the offspring to an experienced breeder. Really respect the fact you took care of this snake and kept people updated, very rare for that to happen.

[WarriorPrincess]

http://youtu.be/xWF-WVhbQgM

[WarriorPrincess]

117461174711748photos make her look yellow but it's just the lighting. Also the photo's make her look fat but also she's not. The camera always adds 10lbs ya know :p:D

[Tommytradix]

have you bred her yet?

[Tommytradix]

nevermind i seen the other photos lol

[acovert]

I just read through this whole thread and WOW. It's great to see someone else who's stuck around since getting their first garter. I live in the Portland area myself, and Cuddles, my little northwestern, came from the Happy Valley area. You're so lucky to have found an albino. What an amazing snake. And she grew so fast! Cuddles is bigger, but he still seems so small to me, even after three years. I certainly hope you manage to breed this lovely lady :) If I were allowed to have more snakes....

[BLUESIRTALIS]

From this pic i'm thinking you have another female here because it looks like a pretty good taper. Was this snake caught in the same are as it could be a possible het too!
11284

[WarriorPrincess]

yes I caught it in my backyard and Casper in the front. I don't know what a Het is. But I've very disappointed it's a female. I've finally got it to start eating regular and was growing it up a little so Casper wouldn't eat it cause it was so little when I found it. It's very friendly but super scared of Casper and after what casper did to her froggy friend I'm a little afraid to put it in if it's a female. Will they fight? Seriously got to get her to breeding. The clock is ticking down. I was trying to stay local just incase one from her family was around with the same gene but only found this one. I might have to go to a different field. Just quarantine takes so long. I had such hopes for this breeding. UGH! I guess I'd better read up more on breading.117661176711768

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I'm not saying 100% female, but the pic i was posting about looked female. They should not fight and should get alone just fine, but you have to be careful at feeding time. I would seperate for feeding. Het means it could possibly be carrying the albino genes since it was caught in the same spot.
yes i caught it in my backyard and casper in the front. I don't know what a het is. But i've very disappointed it's a female. I've finally got it to start eating regular and was growing it up a little so casper wouldn't eat it cause it was so little when i found it. It's very friendly but super scared of casper and after what casper did to her froggy friend i'm a little afraid to put it in if it's a female. Will they fight? Seriously got to get her to breeding. The clock is ticking down. I was trying to stay local just incase one from her family was around with the same gene but only found this one. I might have to go to a different field. Just quarantine takes so long. I had such hopes for this breeding. Ugh! I guess i'd better read up more on breading.117661176711768

[Dan72]

Very cool to catch up with Casper, have not been on in awhile. Good luck with finding a breeding size male this year. Casper looks amazing! Super nice snake.

[WarriorPrincess]

Ok Everyone out there. I'm having surgery April 14th and I've talked it over with my Godson and together we have decided it is ok to sale Casper to someone who can help her reproduce. I don't have the time to take care of her and with the surgery I will be down 6-8 months. My Godson is turning 14 and has lost interest but wouldn't let me part with her until I told him there may be some cash in it for him. Typical kid! LOL! Anyway if you guys could get the word out to the folks interested in rare snakes I'd sure appreciate it. I have enjoyed being a part of this family and it's been a thrill taking care of Casper and watching her flourish all these years. I will miss her and being a part of this group.
Thank You everyone:)

[FlameBoy]

That looks to be a dekays not a garter at all I've seen albino dekays and this snake pictured shares alot of the same features

[FlameBoy]

Contact Mike fedzen he will have interest I'm an albino dekay

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Take a look at some of her old pics of casper.
that looks to be a dekays not a garter at all i've seen albino dekays and this snake pictured shares alot of the same features

[BLUESIRTALIS]

100% northwestern garter! Casper is an amazing one of a kind animal the would make a great project for someone. I have narrowed my collection down to only a few species and don't work with ordinoides, but daniel is right though mike fedzen would probably be interested in casper.

[Dan72]

Amy luck with Casper? Maybe check with Don Belnap. He is possibly the closest garter breeder to you, might have the best luck getting a male. Best of luck, let us know if he gets a new home.

[Jeff B]

I sent a PM a week ago, haven't heard back.

[Zdravko092368]

I think Mike Fedzen has this snake.

[Tommytradix]

glad its being sent to a breeder

[Manitou]

Ok Everyone out there. I'm having surgery April 14th and I've talked it over with my Godson and together we have decided it is ok to sale Casper to someone who can help her reproduce. I don't have the time to take care of her and with the surgery I will be down 6-8 months. ...

Good luck tomorrow, hope all goes well. 6-8 months is a long time :(

[WarriorPrincess]

Thank You Manitou:) I have a momentary reprieve. Got the surgery rescheduled to April 22nd. Family took me out for my favorite dinner tonight. La Carreta Mexican!! No one else in the family likes mexican food so usually I only get to go on my Birthday in November. This was a bonus day for the year! Also Casper finally shed so I think she is ready to go to her new home. I just have to iron out the final details about shipping her. It makes me nervous but Mike and I are a long ways from each other. Hopefully he will keep me posted with her babies photos and well being and I will forward it to everyone here who has followed her life. PEACE :Dhttp://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13243&stc=1

[Albert Clark]

Great progression story! I feel like I know Casper but I am glad to see her future put into good hands. Looking forward to updates on her. Congrats and a job well done.

[guidofatherof5]

You have done a great job caring for Casper. I'm glad she found you.

[WarriorPrincess]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13263&stc=1

[Albert Clark]

Wow! Casper is truly a magnificient specimen! She should be on the cover of REPTILES magazine. Congrats to you for intervening and making a difference. Thanks for sharing. What kind of camera is that bc i need one? ;)

[WarriorPrincess]

4-19-2016 Well today was the day. I woke up Casper and she hammed it up for the camera for a few photos as usual. She loves her photo taken. I wonder how snakes see us with those eyes she has it's like she is reading my mind sometimes. So when the camera comes out she poses for photo's easy. So I put the bag in and she crawled right into it. I think she thought it might be a new toy or adventure so it only took seconds for her to explore. I felt guilty and quickly closed it up but not yet tied because she kept trying to push her way up and out where I was pinching the bag closed. I held the bag close to my chest and held her warming her with my body heat until she calmed down and felt secure as I was saying goodbye. Then I was finally able to tie up the bag. I then placed her into the nice insulated box and closed it up. I hope she has enough air in there. LOL! We left for FedEx to Swan Island Portland. It was quite a drive in bogus traffic but since it was 88 degrees out today I didn't want her riding around in a FedEx transit truck with no temp control until getting to distribution center. So we put on our sun glasses and buckled up for the long ride. We listened to Bob Dylan,(Like a rolling stone) Bill Withers, (aint no sunshine) The Animales(House of the rising sun) Beach Boys (Good Vibrations) Bobbie Gentry (Ode to Billy Joe) and then we arrived. The lady that took her was very nice and said she was going out priority. She also assured me they don't throw the packages. Can't say the same for USPS. :cool: Anyway she took Casper quickly out to the warehouse for her next leg of the trip. Portland Oregon 3:05 AM and by 10:30 She was in Memphis Tennessee visiting Elvis! I j ust checked and she is in Moon Township, PA. So just a little more to Pittsburgh and she will be safely at her new home! Mike said he will keep us posted with updates and photo's of her offspring!! I can't wait! http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13264&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13265&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13266&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13267&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13268&stc=1

[WarriorPrincess]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13276&stc=1

[WarriorPrincess]

Hi Albert, It's just a Samsung 6 edge Plus. I switched from Apple phone just for the camera feature. Although these phones do so much it's an amazing phone. Thx for you comment I wish Casper a wonderful future. Mike will take good care of her. I bawled like a baby leaving the FedEx station and then a couple times more on the drive home. :o

[Albert Clark]

Hi Albert, It's just a Samsung 6 edge Plus. I switched from Apple phone just for the camera feature. Although these phones do so much it's an amazing phone. Thx for you comment I wish Casper a wonderful future. Mike will take good care of her. I bawled like a baby leaving the FedEx station and then a couple times more on the drive home. :o
Well man I have the Samsung galaxy but I guess I need the plus. Lol. I can't get pictures like that! Anyway , I want to make sure I get one or two of those babies of Caspers. We'll see. Thanks again WP. What a story!!!

[guidofatherof5]

Please let us know when she arrives safe and sound. You did good.

[WarriorPrincess]

Thanks Steve, Casper was picked up at 3:45 PM by Mike. Now just waiting to hear from him that she's ok.:o

[WarriorPrincess]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13278&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13279&stc=1

[WarriorPrincess]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13284&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13285&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13286&stc=1
Update: Mike just sent me some photo's!! I'm so happy! She seem to have taken to him very well and looks very happy herself. She is there and safe and acclimating to her new surroundings. I'm so thankful I have had you all here to help me to keep Casper safe and healthy throughout the years. And for helping me find Mike to further her life in her offspring of the future. THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!

Here are the new photo's from Mike in PA. All the way across the United States from where she was born! WOW :):D

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome. Glad the shipping went well. Perfect time of the year for it.

[Dan72]

Well done! You did an amazing job! Maybe after your health is back where it needs to be which is most important, you could take in one of Caspers offspring and start all over again. You could tell the son or daughter "I knew your mother when...." ;)
Great job!!

[Manitou]

...surgery rescheduled to April 22nd...

Well how did it go is everything okay?

[WarriorPrincess]

RIGHT ARM BICEPS TENODESIS. RIGHT CLAVICLE EXCISION DISTAL. RIGHT SHOULDER ARTHOROSCOPY WITH ROTATOR CUFF REPAIR.
The nerve block in my neck paralyzed the right side of my face and temporarily froze my lower diaphragm in my lungs so it was difficult to breath. So between the nerve block and Dilaudid I guess photo looks as it should. LOL!!! Yahoo I survived :)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13358&stc=1

[WarriorPrincess]

And Mike updated me on Casper too!! She's having a pinky smorgasbord! LOL!

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13359&stc=1http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13360&stc=1

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome. Thanks for the update.

[guidofatherof5]

Did the shoulder thing a few years back. Hang in there.

[Manitou]

oh you'll be fine, most of my hangovers are worse than that

[Dan72]

Get well. Speedy recovery wishes sent your way. Keep us updated.

[Albert Clark]

Did the shoulder thing a few years back. Hang in there.
Me too! My right shoulder. Glad I had a top surgeon perform the operation.

[Albert Clark]

@ WP: When you really get better and are feeling stronger plan for some hydrotherapy as a strengthening tool. It's also great for regaining your range of motion back in the affected shoulder and your total body. Get well soon!